Goblin Squad Member
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So,this is something that totally didn't spring to my mind upon starting up DDO again recently.
Character names. Some RPGs require each player to have an individual character name, that nobody else has. That... Leads to stupidity.
A suggestion is that player data is tied to their account/email, allowing there to be multiple "Bob"s running around, instead of one Bob, one BOb, one BOB, one BoB,and so on.
Nothing quite breaks immersion like having "BillyBob93" join your party, after all.
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Goblin Squad Member
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So,this is something that totally didn't spring to my mind upon starting up DDO again recently.
Character names. Some RPGs require each player to have an individual character name, that nobody else has. That... Leads to stupidity.
A suggestion is that player data is tied to their account/email, allowing there to be multiple "Bob"s running around, instead of one Bob, one BOb, one BOB, one BoB,and so on.
Nothing quite breaks immersion like having "BillyBob93" join your party, after all.
Till someone kills the wrong Bob ...
Is it really that hard to generate a fantasy name ? There is always the age old D&D NPC naming trick of reversing real names and rearranging letters, hence Andrew Brown becomes Nworb Werdna, Mary Smith is Thims Yram and so forth.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I don't think this will be any sort of issue given Ryan posted this today:
We're not targeting casual players. That's for games that expect to have millions of players. We're targeting a small number of hard core players who are obsessed with the game.
Looks like GW wants a small but dedicated, player base who will know how to play and RP in a fantasy MMO.
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Goblin Squad Member
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i would like to see people that can have the same name. The name over the head or in chat wont have any extra info. Then maybe when you click on the person and select more info you can see their account level name, which is unique.
that way if someone wants to see if this is the bob they know, they can check and the info is easily avalible, but its not presented to break immersion.
I wonder how hard it would be to add a "Display" name field in addition to a characters name. Where my character may have a full name of Ragnar Olfrikson Taltos. In the display infield I would enter Ragnar, so the floating name (if there is one) would be Ragnar as would the name that shows up on the chat screen?
Might not be considered worth the time to add by the Dev?
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'd still prefer that the floaty names not show up at all until you have either been introduced to or attacked by a player character. Vendors, NPCs fine. Players: Let us have to get to know one another or at least be acquainted before bombarding us with information.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Nothing so elaborate. Just /introduce <target>. If they agree they /introduce <target you> accounts shake hands and thereafter their floaty name appears.
Even simpler if I leap from the bushes and flail at you with my new little sword I automatically give you my character name in my attacker flag.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Nothing so elaborate. Just /introduce <target>. If they agree they /introduce <target you> accounts shake hands and thereafter their floaty name appears.
Even simpler if I leap from the bushes and flail at you with my new little sword I automatically give you my character name in my attacker flag.
So if there are two characters with the same name, and you know them both, how will that work?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Or besides non unique names you have to specify a unique name that is not displayed. That name does not have to be linked to a account.
So one account could have.
Throm Throm as the display name and Throm123456 as the unique non display name
Torm torm as the display name and reallykooldude12 as the unique non display name.
have the two fields seperate so someone who has ragnar as their unique name does not lock out that name as a display name.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I Truelly hope theres a "Display" name other than just your true character name. This goes back to getting to know some one before you know there life story. If we meet out on the street and I tell you my name is Bob, how do you know the its not unless you have some other information. I mentioned this before in other threads, have several levels of identification. Instead of the name depending on the target, make it depend on the observer. Heres an example:
<Target> Server ID = player 392
Level 1 ID = what ever name the observer gives you
Level 2 ID = the display name the <target> made
Level 3 ID = true name and general info on <target>
Level 4 ID = true name plus all info on <target>
Then you make what level ID the observer gets dependant on the interaction and other variables, Observation skill, disguise etc. Yes I understand this may take quite abit of resources on the server side but it wsould be awesome to see.
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Goblin Squad Member
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So,this is something that totally didn't spring to my mind upon starting up DDO again recently.
Character names. Some RPGs require each player to have an individual character name, that nobody else has. That... Leads to stupidity.
A suggestion is that player data is tied to their account/email, allowing there to be multiple "Bob"s running around, instead of one Bob, one BOb, one BOB, one BoB,and so on.
Nothing quite breaks immersion like having "BillyBob93" join your party, after all.
Ryan posted on 12 SEP 2012 in the blog called "I Heard it Thru the Grapevine". Without quoting the entire blog, here you go:
All of these problems fall into a bucket I call "bad names." A bad name is a name that makes our game less fun, angers someone else, breaks immersion, is a copyright or trademark infringement, or identity theft.
We're going to have a very tough policy on bad names. We reserve the right, at any time, for any reason, to make you choose a new name.
If you wish to name your character yourself, that name will be probationary. From time to time, as resources permit, we will likely audit character names and convert them from probationary to approved, at which time you won't have to worry (much) about having to change that name... unless we later discover that you've snuck a bad name past us, in which case we'll make you change it anyway.
Pick a good name as early as possible. You name competition will be fairly small, and don't post here with your top 20 or someone might snatch it first. (Just a suggestion.) That said, there are millions of unique names that do not include xxX at the beginning or end.
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Goblin Squad Member
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...So if there are two characters with the same name, and you know them both, how will that work?Let me think... I dunno Blaeringer: When you meet someone with the same name as someone else you know in RL how do you tell them apart?
Actually Being, you should consider making alts with names like Seeing, Deeing, Effing (that one may be banned) , Geeing etc etc
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Neandenil: It... Honestly is pretty damn hard to come up with one that fits the setting, IMO.
@Blareingr: More like Goblinworks identifies a person by account, but players by character name. There could be an option to friend an entire account, or just individual characters. You wouldn't know the name of the account from trying, which could be accepted or rejected at will.
As for the "Two with same name", presumably by giving one a nickname, or via character appearance. I know two guys named Tim IRL, and I tend to call 'em Big Tim and Tall Tim, to their chagrin.
Not the same surname, but the point still stands.
Or, you know, their character's appearance is next to the name. The only way for someone to get the exact same look is if they're intentionally copying.
@Hardin: And what about the people who'll show up a few years time? People become fans of games all the time, and forcing them to use a fifth or sixth choice of name isn't that good of an option.
I'm bringing this up because it will probably prove relevant.
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Goblin Squad Member
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To me, the only logical way to go about it is with the real name for character info, and a display or nickname that people actually see above head. The real name keeps players unique, but they can still go by a nick name. Which by the way is most common. Tim isn't probably his name. It's more likely his name is Timothy.
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Goblin Squad Member
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...So if there are two characters with the same name, and you know them both, how will that work?Let me think... I dunno Blaeringer: When you meet someone with the same name as someone else you know in RL how do you tell them apart?
When you need to tell them apart in real life, we do in fact use unique ID numbers for that. Social Sec numbers in the US.
In PFO this will include anything from sending mail, party invites, contracts, etc.
Does this really need to be explained?
You know what, ignore my response so far. Here's a better one, and it's much shorter. 4 words: just think about it.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Actually Being, you should consider making alts with names like Seeing, Deeing, Effing (that one may be banned) , Geeing etc etc...So if there are two characters with the same name, and you know them both, how will that work?Let me think... I dunno Blaeringer: When you meet someone with the same name as someone else you know in RL how do you tell them apart?
'Being' will not be any of my character names.
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Goblin Squad Member
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...So if there are two characters with the same name, and you know them both, how will that work?Let me think... I dunno Blaeringer: When you meet someone with the same name as someone else you know in RL how do you tell them apart?When you need to tell them apart in real life, we do in fact use unique ID numbers for that. Social Sec numbers in the US.
In PFO this will include anything from sending mail, party invites, contracts, etc.
Does this really need to be explained?
You know what, ignore my response so far. Here's a better one, and it's much shorter. 4 words: just think about it.
There is even less to consider in your question than I thought. You should take your own advice. I'm not one for blaming an honest question, but this one of yours appears without point or substance.
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Goblin Squad Member
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There is even less to consider in your question than I thought. You should take your own advice. I'm not one for blaming an honest question, but this one of yours appears without point or substance....So if there are two characters with the same name, and you know them both, how will that work?Let me think... I dunno Blaeringer: When you meet someone with the same name as someone else you know in RL how do you tell them apart?When you need to tell them apart in real life, we do in fact use unique ID numbers for that. Social Sec numbers in the US.
In PFO this will include anything from sending mail, party invites, contracts, etc.
Does this really need to be explained?
You know what, ignore my response so far. Here's a better one, and it's much shorter. 4 words: just think about it.
Really? So who gets the mail addressed to 'John Smith'? How do you know you're sending it to the right person? How do you invite the right person into your adventuring party? How do you take out a contract on the right person? How do you set a bounty against the right person? How do you specify the right person who can collect on said contract or bounty? When there are multiple people with the same name, how do you do any of that with accuracy or reliability?
Even going back to your real life comment, you haven't thought this through. In real life, if all I'm concerned with is having a conversation with the person I want to talk to, then we have no issue. But if I want to send someone mail, I need more information about them. Unique information. An address. There's a reason that they don't simplify it by keeping a database of where everyone lives so all you need to do is write their name on the envelope: multiple people with the same name. The real life system needs some kind of unique information to function.
Think about it. ;)
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Goblin Squad Member
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I don't recall off hand if Golarion lore uses middle names. Can anyone enlighten me? I know surnames and in many cases names derived from deeds are often used, but I don't recall any characters with middle names, but I have not played through at least 80% of the available AP's. Thanks in advance.
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Goblin Squad Member
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...Really? So who gets the mail addressed to 'John Smith'? How do you know you're sending it to the right person? How do you invite the right person into your adventuring party? How do you take out a contract on the right person? How do you set a bounty against the right person? How do you specify the right person who can collect on said contract or bounty? When there are multiple people with the same name, how do you do any of that with accuracy or reliability?
When you are introduced to someone in real life how do you do these things except by interacting with that person, learning their details, discovering who they are? Use your brain, Blaeringr. Use a bit of common sense. Are you expecting the game mechanics to fill your address book for you? Is the game supposed to make a date with them? Take them out and get laid? No.
...Think about it. ;)
Excellent suggestion a wise man once made. You should look into it.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I really don't like the idea of non-unique names. It's just asking for someone to make a clone of a well known player's appearance, use the same name, and go off and commit all kinds of griefing to smear that player's name. Then when a bounty hunter is going after the well known player, he will get a rep hit because he attacked the wrong guy.
You know, if a large number of posters here were to get behind an idea, like /introduce that's being talked about, it seems, to me, like a difference of opinion that could be handled by having the mechanism controlled by a "on/off" toggle within the Options>UI section. A lot of these ideas I like, but can see how others might not want to deal with it.
Just a thought..
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Goblin Squad Member
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I really don't like the idea of non-unique names. It's just asking for someone to make a clone of a well known player's appearance, use the same name, and go off and commit all kinds of griefing to smear that player's name. Then when a bounty hunter is going after the well known player, he will get a rep hit because he attacked the wrong guy.
Yet how is 'disguise' supposed to work? Impersonation, fraud, deceit, undercover investigation? How is a spy supposed to properly spy? What detective work will possibly needed when all is layed out before men, elves, and dwarves (or Dwarfs, for the purists)?
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Goblin Squad Member
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...Really? So who gets the mail addressed to 'John Smith'? How do you know you're sending it to the right person? How do you invite the right person into your adventuring party? How do you take out a contract on the right person? How do you set a bounty against the right person? How do you specify the right person who can collect on said contract or bounty? When there are multiple people with the same name, how do you do any of that with accuracy or reliability?When you are introduced to someone in real life how do you do these things except by interacting with that person, learning their details, discovering who they are? Use your brain, Blaeringr. Use a bit of common sense. Are you expecting the game mechanics to fill your address book for you? Is the game supposed to make a date with them? Take them out and get laid? No.
...Think about it. ;)Excellent suggestion a wise man once made. You should look into it.
Now you're starting to get it. "learning their details".
How do you call up your date without her phone number? How do you know where to pick her up without her address?
Your first response to me suggests there should be no unique information, and yet you repeatedly use "real life" as an example of how that works. But it doesn't work without unique information. You haven't even thought that out, nevermind the broken game mechanics you're suggesting.
If you want to continue this conversation rationally, I suggest you answer any of my questions about the real life scenarios I posed you. those are all examples of how unique information is needed in real life. Explain otherwise, if you will.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I really don't like the idea of non-unique names. It's just asking for someone to make a clone of a well known player's appearance, use the same name, and go off and commit all kinds of griefing to smear that player's name. Then when a bounty hunter is going after the well known player, he will get a rep hit because he attacked the wrong guy.Yet how is 'disguise' supposed to work? Impersonation, fraud, deceit, undercover investigation? How is a spy supposed to properly spy? What detective work will possibly needed when all is layed out before men, elves, and dwarves (or Dwarfs, for the purists)?
It shouldn't imo. I know I am in the minority on this issue, but for me this is another point that annoyance wins on the annoyance vs fun scale. While there should be means available for you to appear to be someone else, it shouldn't affect your name and allow you to appear to be someone else. While having an evil twin is a trope of the genre, I feel is has been played out, and in an sandbox game, it will simply cause tons of grief for the player that are duped while the ones scamming them will rightly claim that they are not griefing, but playing their character concept.
While it's not griefing in a player sense, the character is causing far more harm to other characters than death by allowing players to do these kinds of things. It will be abused by the smart griefers, and the harm they bring to the game outweighs the fun that can be had by using it yourself.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Yes, you need unique information in order to uniquely identify the character. No, that doesn't have to be their name.
There can be 1,000 Bobs in the game, but the Bob in my contact list is unique, and when I send mail to Bob, it goes to that unique Bob.
Contact Lists... think about it.
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Goblin Squad Member
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...Now you're starting to get it. "learning their details".
How do you call up your date without her phone number? How do you know where to pick her up without her address?
You are still clearly missing some of what I am trying to say. Possibly you understand and just think I am incorrect or are 'slow'.
You get her phone number by asking her for it. You get the player's info by interacting with them, not by having it in neon colors above their head.
Your first response to me suggests there should be no unique information, and yet you repeatedly use "real life" as an example of how that works. But it doesn't work without unique information. You haven't even thought that out, nevermind the broken game mechanics you're suggesting.
No, my first response intended to suggest that you would not have automated access to their private info and should interact with them on a personal level in order to gain their contact information. You took it as suggesting there would be no unique information, and what you take as my intent is widely different from my intent.
You should interact with someone to get to know them. The game should not yeild to you their private information unless you bother to interact with them.
If you want to continue this conversation rationally, I suggest you answer any of my questions about the real life scenarios I posed you. those are all examples of how unique information is needed in real life. Explain otherwise, if you will.
Gee, how... magnificent of you, Blaeringr.
You should see a haberdasher for a new hat: that one looks far too tight.
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Goblin Squad Member
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No. Your example of someone leaping out of the bushes does not allow for what you're explaining now.
The guy who ganks you, who according to your suggestion only gives you their name, how are you going to interact with them to get any unique information?
You're trying to cloud over what you said earlier, and suggest that what you meant all along is different, that you do see the need for unique information, but that doesn't matter if you can't get that information. Your real life examples make that perfectly clear. Phone numbers and addresses of friends are given voluntarily. Not so with random people jumping out of the bushes.
And let's stick to discussing the matter at hand, this discussion is turning toxic.
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Goblin Squad Member
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So when you said "flag" way back at the beginning of this discussion, you meant something different than how Goblinworks has been using it all along. You meant that it also carries all the unique information I've been advocating all along. And you thought I gleaned all that?
Ok.
So back to the first post I made, do you see any issue at all with each character having a unique "ID key"? or as you call it "flag".
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Goblin Squad Member
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The guy who ganks you, who according to your suggestion only gives you their name, how are you going to interact with them to get any unique information?
You should also be able to right-click on their (non-unique) descriptor in a combat log in order to add that unique character to your contact list, or to simply interact with that unique character without adding them to your contact list if you don't expect to deal with them often.
Even if you have 17 "unknown character" contacts in your contact list, you should have access to history with them that lets you know that 3rd guy is the "unknown character" who backstabbed you outside Mosswater in mid-February.
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Goblin Squad Member
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So when you said "flag" way back at the beginning of this discussion, you meant something different than how Goblinworks has been using it all along. You meant that it also carries all the unique information I've been advocating all along. And you thought I gleaned all that?
Ok.
So back to the first post I made, do you see any issue at all with each character having a unique "ID key"? or as you call it "flag".
I said 'floaty names' for the social situation. I clearly used 'flag' for the attacker situation. I did not confuse them until you asked without reference to either flag or floaty name how you would know who the person was. I had just been tlking about the social 'floaty name' and not talking about the 'attacker flag' when you responded.
So no: I haven't been talking about flags differently than I believe Goblinworks has been, I was talking about 'floaty names' differently from flags.
In the interest of security I should think a playerID number/designation is the way to go. It can link account information to character securely. I foresee no real issue with it.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Goblinworks has not been using the word "flags" to mean ways of identifying a character, but as a way of categorizing their behavior. From the usage of the word "flag" as GW has shown on the forums, two characters with the same name could both be flagged as attackers, or heinous, or any other flag.
And without unique names, two characters who have the exact same flags can also have the exact same floaty names.
This little exchange of ours started off with you rejecting this idea: "need to get some kind of ID key from a player to friend them".
Given that I did not specify how that ID is to be exchanged, nor did I specify what form it take, all that's left is for me to interpret that you reject the idea of unique ID other than the name itself.
I'm getting the notion now that you are advocating unique ID in some form or another, but thought you were making some kind of point to me about how said IDs are exchanged.
Sorry, I didn't bring my mind reading hat to this conversation. Would that have made this go more smoothly?
To move this conversation on in a similar direction, I'm going to now tell you that I am completely opposed to your idea of having bandits be able to draw moustaches on their victims.