Despite PaizoCon's early announcement this year (thank you, Paizo), I have been holding off on announcing whether or not JBE is coming. I have attended for the past two years and it has been fun and helpful. I like meeting the fans, talking shop with my fellow 3PP and of course hanging out with the great people at Paizo. However, there is one basic problem:
It is not possible for me to come to PaizoCon and make a profit.
I'm coming from New Jersey. Round-trip airfare (let along a second ticket for my girlfriend) pretty much blows out any profit I can make from selling books there. Plus, that's before a hotel stay, food, etc.
That would not be a problem and I would already be signed up for it except that there's another game con in New Jersey an hour away from me the same weekend. Yesterday, I came back from another con put on by the same crew, held in the same venue, and the final verdict is that I did not lose nearly as much money as I do at PaizoCon each year. Mind you, the biggest reason that I did not make money is that I was selling Pathfinder (and some Traveller) Compatible material instead of indy games. The con's main focus is on story games so it was not a perfect fit. There were plenty of others that play Pathfinder at home that I as happy with how much I sold. The final math had me close to the break even point.
However, I'm not in role playing games for the money. I'm in it because I enjoy it and I like seeing how much enjoyment others get from using what I create. So I am throwing a question out there for you: how much do you get out having me, personally, as well as other 3PP's being at PaizoCon? Does our unique prospective in seminars make the convention more fun for you? Do you like playing in games run by the myself or other PFRPG Compatible publishers? Do you like to talk to the person that actually wrote the book before buying it?
Please share your thoughts?
Last year was the first year I was able to make it to PaizoCon. One of my favorite memories was playtesting MinionQuest with my wife GM'd by Gary McBride. It was so much fun, we determined that we want to purchase the associated product as soon as it is available. I think if you are going to PaizoCon to connect your fans or might-be-fans with your products, running a game with pre-generated characters is the way to go.
(Fortunately and unfortunately, this year I will be GMing PFS 5 out of the 6 sessions, so I don't know how much time I will have for anything else.)
Which is more important, the money, or the good times?
I'm not asking that question. For me personally, I like interacting with the fans and everything else I have mentioned. However, this is a business. I have to file taxes and I can't take a loss every year. So I have to weigh the fun with financial reality. My answer to it is that the two are more or less in balance at the moment.
So basically, I am looking for here is a reason to return to PaizoCon, something to push that balance one way or the other. If there is a groundswell of, "Yes, we want you and other 3PP to come back to PaizoCon," I'll come. But if I more or less get a "meh" response, I'll stay local.
I totally understand were you are coming form Dale. We at LPJ Design decided to pass on this years PaizoCon due to the distance issue. Being in South Florida the distance is too great. I loved going (It was my 1st trip to Seattle) and meeting the Pathfinder fan base, the distances is a HUGE issue. I don't know, maybe something will change to make it possible.
Hey guys, most of the time I spent paizocon last year was in seminars with 3PPs, but having chatted with both of you, I can't guarantee that's going to be the same this year.
That said, as a freelancer for a few 3PPs, I'm also happy to put faces to names and meet everyone I can.
Plus, everything I know about Kickstarter I learned from Louis Porter...
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If the question is "would you prefer the presence of 3PP in the store and possibly one o e or more panels", then the answer is certainly yes, I would. It is a definite plus to see what other publishers are putting out for PF and getting to talk with them about what may be coming down the pike is a bonus.
CEO
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I went to PaizoCon the year before last and had a great time but I do agree - I live on the East Coast and the travel expense is just a killer!
I wish there was some way Paizo could do a PaizoCon East ...
Imagine the travel expense for moving the entire Paizo team out to an East coast convention! Yikes! Oh wait, we already do that! It is called GenCon. :) Or isn't that East coast enough! ;>
Really, the only reason we can do PaizoCon at all is because it is here in Seattle. GenCon fulfills the need we have to interact with our East coast fans. They are different types of conventions, that is true, but as a company, we can only do so many "stop the company and bring everybody to the convention" conventions.
-Lisa
(Perfectly reasonable stuff except for calling Indianapolis "East Coast" :p ;) )
*does math* You posted that at about 3:45am your time. Is one of the job requirements of being an awesome CEO that you don't sleep?
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I went to PaizoCon the year before last and had a great time but I do agree - I live on the East Coast and the travel expense is just a killer!
I wish there was some way Paizo could do a PaizoCon East ...
Imagine the travel expense for moving the entire Paizo team out to an East coast convention! Yikes! Oh wait, we already do that! It is called GenCon. :) Or isn't that East coast enough! ;>
Really, the only reason we can do PaizoCon at all is because it is here in Seattle. GenCon fulfills the need we have to interact with our East coast fans. They are different types of conventions, that is true, but as a company, we can only do so many "stop the company and bring everybody to the convention" conventions.
-Lisa
Yeah, I figured that and it makes sense that the same travel expenses that are killing us East Coasters would kill you guys 10 fold to come out here.
But a guy can dream :) Maybe something could be organized that had just one or two or three Paizo folks come to the East Coast for a PaizoCon east and then all the East Coast 3PPs could come ... like I said, a guy can dream :)
Oh, and like Dale said ... heh, no, GenCon is still pretty far!
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Plus, everything I know about Kickstarter I learned from Louis Porter...
And remember NEVER do a sourcebook book about dogs. Never.
RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games
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On the other hand, since I'm in Seattle PaizoCon works out great for me and Legendary Games!
I certainly understand Dale's and Louis' positions, though, as I'm sure I'd have a hard time getting to PaizoCon if it were in NJ or FL. Heck, I've never even gotten out to GenCon, and given a probable trip already in the works for September it's unlikely I'll make it this summer either, but there's always next year.
I'd love to see you guys around the Con if you can make it, but I certainly empathize if things just don't add up.
I totally understand were you are coming form Dale. We at LPJ Design decided to pass on this years PaizoCon due to the distance issue. Being in South Florida the distance is too great. I loved going (It was my 1st trip to Seattle) and meeting the Pathfinder fan base, the distances is a HUGE issue. I don't know, maybe something will change to make it possible.
Well I, for one, am glad you made it out to Paizocon last year. I know where you're coming from though. I'm still working out whether I'll make it this year, and I'm just on the other side of the state.
Last year was the first year I was able to make it to PaizoCon. One of my favorite memories was playtesting MinionQuest with my wife GM'd by Gary McBride. It was so much fun, we determined that we want to purchase the associated product as soon as it is available. I think if you are going to PaizoCon to connect your fans or might-be-fans with your products, running a game with pre-generated characters is the way to go.
Hawkins,
I just caught this. Glad you enjoyed the game! I too had a lot of fun at those playtesting sessions.
Gary McBride
Fire Mountain Games
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I enjoyed encountering your perspective at seminars and brushing shoulders at market. Do come!
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I went to PaizoCon the year before last and had a great time but I do agree - I live on the East Coast and the travel expense is just a killer!
I wish there was some way Paizo could do a PaizoCon East ...
Imagine the travel expense for moving the entire Paizo team out to an East coast convention! Yikes! Oh wait, we already do that! It is called GenCon. :) Or isn't that East coast enough! ;>
Really, the only reason we can do PaizoCon at all is because it is here in Seattle. GenCon fulfills the need we have to interact with our East coast fans. They are different types of conventions, that is true, but as a company, we can only do so many "stop the company and bring everybody to the convention" conventions.
-Lisa
nope, thats central - still an 8 hour drive from the east coast
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CEO
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nope, thats central - still an 8 hour drive from the east coast
Must be my West coast sensibilities then, because I don't think an 8 hour or even a 16 hour drive is that long. Shrugs. It takes me almost an hour and a half each day to get to work and get home. So 8 hours seems like chump change to get to a con as cool as GenCon.
-Lisa
nope, thats central - still an 8 hour drive from the east coast
Pshhh. I'm from California, you can drive north from San Diego for 8 hours and still be in the same state...
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nope, thats central - still an 8 hour drive from the east coastPshhh. I'm from California, you can drive north from San Diego for 8 hours and still be in the same state...
It boggles my mind how many states you can drive through in eight hours on the East Coast.
Anyway to the topic at hand... I think for any company, the ability to get people to sit down and see your product immediately, play it with them, demo it with them, and be able to talk with them about it is pretty darn awesome. Word-of-mouth is still very important in the industry, but conventions are very expensive. If you can't attend a physical one, have you thought about creating/running online game sessions?
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I think for any company, the ability to get people to sit down and see your product immediately, play it with them, demo it with them, and be able to talk with them about it is pretty darn awesome. Word-of-mouth is still very important in the industry, but conventions are very expensive. If you can't attend a physical one, have you thought about creating/running online game sessions?
Our local gaming meetup has begun to hold workshops and game sessions online via Google Hangout and we're seeing lots of interest and activity on this front. I think it's a great idea for 3PPs - and Dale, if you want to look into doing something like this, I'd be on board to run a few sessions using some of our books.
I like the opportunity to meet third party publishers and hear about their product firsthand, but a virtual taste online would be a good thing too.
I totally understand were you are coming form Dale. We at LPJ Design decided to pass on this years PaizoCon due to the distance issue. Being in South Florida the distance is too great. I loved going (It was my 1st trip to Seattle) and meeting the Pathfinder fan base, the distances is a HUGE issue. I don't know, maybe something will change to make it possible.
Well it looks like the fates are smiling and changing on me so it looks like Louis Porter Jr. AND JP Chapleau of LPJ Design WILL BE GOING to PaizoCon 2013! We hope to conform this by next week, but right now call it a "strong maybe".
Hope it works out, Louis. It will great to see you again.
Gary McBride
Fire Mountain Games
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I went to PaizoCon the year before last and had a great time but I do agree - I live on the East Coast and the travel expense is just a killer!
I wish there was some way Paizo could do a PaizoCon East ...
Well, at least two of the RPG Superstars are from NC, so let's host it in Charlotte! :)
Now, if we can only get Lisa to send a handful of employees this way, we can start a PaizoCon East at MACE in November. :)
Btw, in case you guys didn't know it, Wolfgang Baur is going to be the Gaming Guest of Honor at ConCarolinas in Charlotte, NC at the end of May/beginning of June. It's a sci-fi con with gaming--about 1100 people or so. They have a dealer's room. MACE is pure gaming with about 400+ with a dealer's room. We'd love to have 3PPs come our way.
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I think it's good for PR to attend PaizoCon. After the first Con I pretty much attend to stay in touch with the 3PP and to meet more attending publishers. I'm from Mexico so you can imagine the distance/expense dollar/peso this trip means to me, and up now, I have never regret a single Con. It always lands a new 3PP contact and refreshes 3PP relations and the chance of speaking of new projects and getting on board on those. It's hard to beat a face to face conversation.
Also, I'd love to see you again and keep poking you about puting some froggie artwork into you products ;)
Plus, everything I know about Kickstarter I learned from Louis Porter...And remember NEVER do a sourcebook book about dogs. Never.
Everytime I see anything LPJ-related I remember this comment on last PC, and I remember because at the time I was thinking exactly of doing that... :)
Now that my beloved doggie passed away, I must fight common wisdom and put such supplement back in the "to do" list. It's personal now :)
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Charlotte works for me (up the hill in Asheville)! ;)
I would second the idea of 3PP at ConCarolinas and/or MACE. Anything that bolsters the Con scene in WNC is a great idea as far as I am concerned. ;)
Get thee to MACE: West this weekend in Hickory! Mike Welham and I will be there. :)
Sounds good. I hope you can make it out. Stop by and say hello.