advice with ninja / sorcerer / shadowdancer kind-o-magician


Advice


hi, im playing a 1880 guns-and-trains campaign. We are currently in what represents australia. I wanted to play a magician (not a conjurer, but a Critian bale/Edward Norton kind of magician) and i was thinking on making him a ninja class...

this is what i have so far:

ninja 4 levels smoke bomb and vanish tricks

sorcerer 1 level just for fun (shadow bloodline)

and then follow the shadowdancer prestige class...

the character is a fetchling : "Descended from humans trapped on the Shadow Plane, fetchlings are creatures of darkness and light intertwined."

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/featured-races/arg-fetchling

they have awasome stealth and great ninja synergy +2 dex, +2 char, +2 stealth and so on.

well, all this is great, but i have to mayor problems:

1. dont know which weapon to choose (i want him to be a sniper and use a firearm, but dont realy picture him with one)
2. as i said, i want him to be a sniper, but the shadowdancer class has Combat reflexes, dodge and mobility as prereq, which are obviously intended for a melee character)

ok, any advice or ideas of any kind will be much appreciated! thanks!

Dark Archive

First off, you want Prestidigitation first and foremost. It is the most important spell to make the character. You probably want sleight of hand as a class skill. I'm sure it is on the ninja list. If you can take ranks in perform, stage magic and feats to apply it to combat...perfect.

Your weapon needs to be a gun. So be sure to take the Amateur Gunslinger feat so you can use the things properly.

I make these suggestions because you said Christian Bale/Edward Norton type, so I assume we are referencing exactly two very specific movies that came out near the same time: The Illusionist and The Prestige (which had Hugh Jackman I think).

Both were excellent movies. If you really can't handle a gun, try the more exotic guns like the Sword Cane Pistol and if fire arms are entirely not your thing, maybe a regular sword cane? I like where you're going with the idea. It's not optimized but hot dang if it isn't flavorful.

The Exchange

I would drop smoke bomb and grab wall climber. It makes your ninja much more mobile and able to change the battlefield.

I am currently running a ninja 6 / shadowdancer 4 in Kingmaker and I get a ton of use out of wall climber.


thank u very much for ur imput. yeah, that´s pretty much the idea... what did u mean with "If you can take ranks in perform, stage magic and feats to apply it to combat"?
regarding the smoke bomb, as dark said: "It's not optimized but hot dang if it isn't flavorful" its more of the the point here... he´s a performer, not a fighter. (im still playing a combat oriented game, i know)

regardless, there is still the issue of qualifying for shadowdancer. i know that the whole idea of the requirments is to set a dificult or at least logical criteria for entering the class, kind of a "cost". however, i´d relly much like to play it a shadowdancer and those three feats are out of the question. my plan is to present mi DM with a solid case and i´d like ur advice for that.

the mayor points are:

the race: fetchlings
alternative requirements: feats, skills, class features (like sneak attack)
awasomeness: i think the charcater and the class are made for each other.

Thoughts welcome and thanks!

Dark Archive

I have not looked into it at all, but I know there are performance feats, presumably for bards but it specifically states that performance weapons/feats can be used by others in some fashion. I'm sure a google search will result in more information that I currently know. I'd take a look at it. However, it is entirely possible that they are useless (since I have yet to look into performance anything but only know of the existence of performance related feats/weapons).


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crossbow is a good sniping weapon--quiet too. you could even tie notes to it as a calling card if that's your kinda thing. also: you could cast them with a minor sound spell to say "message for you, sir." when you shoot people near other people.

the message is explosive runes.


Why ninja? How about rogue(charlatan archetype) and for rogue talents get ninja trick if needed. Underhanded might also be nice...

For the fetchling race consider the alternate racial traits Emissary, Gloom Shimmer, Shadow Magic, and Subtle Manipulator. I can all of the apply to the stage magician role very much.

Also consider going bard (magician archetype) instead of sorcerer.

Or if set on sorc consider wild blooded with umbral bloodline. The 9th level shadow bloodline ability is similar to a shadow dancers shadow jump and hips btw. So maybe sorc/rog is a viable alternative to shadow dancer...

From the fetchling racial feats shadow walker is interesting as it also gives a shadow jump like ability. Shadow Ghost supplements it nicely.

Remember that in-game magic = real and it's application =~ science/art. From his race and sorc1 he already has many magical/supernatural abilities so why not stick with a caster class? You would get a lot more spells and with the right choice of illusions could play up the stage magic more...

Anyways, great idea!

Ps: hmm didn't quite consider sniper there did I? I find it hard to mix it with the stage magician idea. Maybe you want to mix a bit of The Shadow in there? Amateur gunslinger feat is a must if using firearms. With all these shadowy powers , and high stealth sniping should be easy enough. Not sure about useful sniping feats...


Immortal: i´v loked into the preformance feats but it was not of much use.
thanks anyway!!!

Mask: yeah! crossbow was my second choice, i may just do that, but i dont know, the setting is very firearm oriented...

Thanael: a magician friend of mine once told me:"some consider de ninjas the first prestidigitadors, with all their smoke bombs, vaniching and sleight of hand thing" and that´s pretty much what inspired this character in the first place. and for the ninja tricks i´d like to perform i´d need Ki pool, so...

for the other classes i have pictured more or less like this: this fetchling character, who´s from the shadow plane, comes to the material plane when very young, scaping from the slavery and servitude frome his home plane ("...While fetchlings are arguably the most populous race on the Shadow Plane, they rarely rule over their own kind; most serve as vassals or subjects to the great umbral dragons of their homeland, or the bizarre nihiloi who dwell in the deeper darkness. Above all, fetchlings are survivors...") and its dicovered by a human magician while diplaying great skill stealing in a market. he then becomes a magician himself and it through his studies that he awakens and discovers his bloodline powers (hence the sorcerer class). As for the shadowdancer class, which i have yet to apply, it only seemed natural that considering his past, bloodline and line of work he would develop that kind of bond with the shadows.

well, i hope this wasn´t too long. and i´d still like all your imput in alternative requirement for the class.

thanks!


Mechanically, the shadowdancer doesn't seem to have exactly what you're looking for. But that doesn't prevent you from picking other classes and playing like a shadowdancer, or coming at the "warrior of shadows" from a different angle.

I saw a pretty interesting Ninja/Umbral Sorcerer/Arcane Trickster character in a thread on this forum. He cast minor ranged touch spells while concealed in darkness and got the Ninja sneak attack bonus.

Don't let the name of a class get in the way of your vision. I could build a brute-force ninja with a Fighter build so long as I don't care about sneak attacks. The shadowdancer PrC may have some tricks that you like, but see if you can work out a simulated version through magic items. At worse, get with the GM to come up with some custom items that can be used as quest rewards.

Meanwhile, figure out how you want your shadow warrior to behave, then use the best combination of classes that let you get there mechanically. Once you have that achieved, you can reflavor to get the concept that you're looking for.


yeah, i know what u mean with the different angle thing, but why do u think that the shawod dancer doesn't seem to have exactly what i´m looking for?

do u remember where u saw the trickster character, becouse i´v looked for it, but i couldn´t find it.

thanks!


Shadow Sorcerer/Ninja thread is here.

Well, I said the shadowdancer didn't have exactly what you were looking for because I didn't read your first post closely enough. However...

eloy2030 wrote:


2. as i said, i want him to be a sniper, but the shadowdancer class has Combat reflexes, dodge and mobility as prereq, which are obviously intended for a melee character)

If you could get a houserule from your GM on the prereqs, you'd be good. If not, then the PrC isn't what you're looking for based purely on what it requires.

Poor perception rolls on my part aside, my point is thus: While RP and mechanics can certainly influence each other, don't let class names decide your RP experience. :)


thanks for the link! incredibly similar post (except for aesthetics) thanks, very enlightening.

i might get my DM to accept a house rule, but i´d have to make a very strong case! that´s why i´m asking for help.


Well, i´v come with a workaround. There is a tamplate from 3.5 that´s called Dark creture that´s very similar to the fetchling race:

Speed: As base creature, +10 feet to all modes of movement.
Special Qualities: A dark creature retains all the special
qualities of the base creature and also gains the following.
— Darkvision 60 ft.
— Hide in Plain Sight (Ex): Use the Hide skill even while
being observed (except in natural daylight, the area of a
daylight spell, or a similar ettect).
— Resistance to cold 10.
— Superior low-light vision.
Skills: Same as the base creature, plus Hide +8 and
Move Silently +6.
Environment: Changes to Plane of Shadow.
Challenge Rating: Same as the base creature or same as
the base creature +1; see sidebar.
Alignment: Usually one step different from the base
creature, rarely good.
Level Adjustment: +1.

It´s perfect for my purposes, plus hide in plain sight and stealth +6, covering all the other features. Is still a creature from the shado plane and i still keep the human feat. the level adjustment is paid from the 1st level of shadow dancer not being taken wich only gave me hide in plain sight, wich the tamplete already has. i think that i will continue the path of ninja afterwards!

thank u all for ur advice!

ps: any thought will be still welcome.

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