| Flamephoenix182 |
I've been wondering this for a while not sure if its possible. I dont have much experience with fighters because I generally hate having to specialize in 1 thing (two weapon fighting/archer/Two handed).
This got me thinking has anyone built a fighter who is say a two handed fighter and an archer?
Is it possible within wealth and stats?
My initial thought is the two handed fighter only really needs power attack. So use that then choose weapon training on bows to make up for my lower dex and put bonus feats towards the archery chain (Point blank, precise, rapid shot, etc..)
Has anyone tried this before with some success?
How about some other combinations?
as an addendum is it possible to sneak in some skill feats as well so the fighter can be more outside of combat?
Will all of this stretch the fighter too much so as to be useless in lets say a mildly optimized group?
Psion-Psycho
|
If u want a character with skills fighter is the worst choice in all honesty. Now if u want a melee and ranged fighter it is doable and best done if u go two-weapon fighting with weapon finesse so ur 2 hit stat will work for both melee and ranged. Though with a bow/crossbow u can adequately do both melee and ranged with the same weapon with the proper feat combo. Sadly it is really not doable until mid to high level to use the bow/crossbow in melee with out being boned.
| Bearlock |
In a mildly optimized group if you went archery/THF, probably not. You have a ton of feats as a fighter, the problem would be being EXACTLY as good in two things. Decide which would be your "main" focus first. I would go with archery, because overall it can do more damage, and benefits from taking more feats. THF really only needs power attack, everything after that is gravy.
A way to boost your skills at the expense of some AC would be the Lore Warden archetype. You get a bunch of knowledge skills.
A second and maybe better option may be to go ranger, with the commonly referred to "switch-hitter" build. You use your combat style feats for archery (Rapid Shot and Imp Precise Shot with no pre-reqs? Thanks) and pick up THF feats with your regular feats. You can prioritize Str, wear med armor, and still have some archery tricks in your bag. Plus, you get a whole crapload of skills.
| Adamantine Dragon |
There are a number of ways to achieve the "switch-hitter" concept. Some are more optimized than others. Most of them are perfectly suitable. I've played switch-hitter fighters, rangers, rogues and have seen switch-hitter paladins. You give up a bit of the top end of optimization, but you gain versatility. From your post I would agree with Lamontius that you're probably going to like the switch-hitter ranger best.
| Eben TheQuiet |
What's the stat generation method? If the stat buy is generous enough, an elven fighter (no archetype) might be able to make this work.
Go Dex > Str/Con > Int > Wis > Cha.
Get your Str at a 14 (minimum), then push Dex and pick up Weapon Finesse on your Curved blade. That means you still qualify for Power Attack (for that meaty 2-handed power attack bonus), and your ranged and melee attack bonuses are both high.
Fighter feats should maek it possible for you to get PBS, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Improved Precise shot, and Weapon Focus (bows) in your build while still having feat slots remaining for combat versatility or other feats.
Picking traits to gain some skills you want (Highlander is always fun), combined with a 14 in INtellect and favored class bonus going into extra skill points means you're getting 5 skills per round. Not huge, but far from crappy.
Fully optimized? No. But in only a "mildly optimized" group, this guy has the flexibility to be useful in most encounters... I would think.
Psion-Psycho
|
If ur starting at level 10+ id verget the melee aspect and grab the feats that allow u to use ur ranged weapon in melee like Point Blank Master and the Snap Shot chain.
Point Blank Master makes it were you do not provoke attacks of opportunity when firing the selected weapon while threatened.
Snap Shot chain makes ut were you threaten squares within 10 feet of you. You can make attacks of opportunity with a ranged weapon. You do not provoke attacks of opportunity when making a ranged attack as an attack of opportunity.Whenever you make an attack of opportunity using a ranged weapon and hit, you gain a +2 bonus on the damage roll and a +2 bonus on rolls to confirm a critical hit with that attack. These bonuses increase to +4 when you have base attack bonus +16, and to +6 when you have base attack bonus +20.
| Gwen Smith |
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I have done several different ranged/melee builds, and the important part I've found is being able to move from ranged to melee and back without having to change weapons.
Build 1: Halfling with a sling staff (weapon master fighter).
This one is my favorite. The sling staff gives you 1d6 + str with an 80 ft range increment, and it functions as a light club (1d4). Sharpstone sling bullets can switch from bludgeoning to piercing or slashing as free action, so you have all three damage types with one weapon. Strength buffs and weapon focus/weapon specialization apply to both ranged and melee, and you only have to pay for enchantments on one weapon. The warslinger racial trait lets you load your sling as a free action, so you can use rapid shot; Point blank master lets you fire in the middle of melee without provoking.
Skill ranks are a problem, but a level dip into rogue should solve that and give you sneak attack damage as well.
Build 2: Longbow with cestus on the string hand, elven curved blade as the heavier melee weapon (elf fighter)
Since you only need two hands when you're actually firing the bow, your string hand with the cestus is free for attacks of opportunity. You can do this as a str or a dex build with weapon finesse (which applies to the cestus). The primary benefit here is you can do rapid shot and many shot both, which Build 1 and 3 can't do. Drawback is that strength buffs don't automatically boost bow damage (get an adaptable long bow when you can afford it).
If you do an elf with all martial weapons, pick up an elven curved blade for when you need a lot more melee damage (1d10, two handed weapon that you can use with weapon finesse). Since it's two handed, you can buff your strength or use power attack to get a lot more damage out of it.
Build 3: Zen Archer monk (any race, but mine is elven).
Again, your string hand is free for unarmed attack of opportunity. I did this as a high dex build with weapon finesse (which also applies to unarmed strikes). Since you get archer feats (point blank shot, precise shot, flurry/rapid shot, and point blank master) as bonus feats or class features, you can focus your character feats on melee.
Damage becomes more of a chore, because you can't buff your strength and automatically apply it to the bow. At later levels, though your unarmed attacks go up in damage, so it probably won't be much of an issue. Point Blank Master at 3rd level lets you flurry all the time without taking AoOs in melee.
Skills are less a problem here than with the fighter, but it depends on what class skills you want.
| Nicos |
Human
Vanilla fighter
starting stats
str 16, Dex 16, con14, int 12, wis 12, cha 7
I recommend to put the level bonuses into str.
Focused Study All humans are skillful, but some, rather than being generalists, tend to specialize in a handful of skills. At 1st, 8th, and 16th level, such humans gain Skill Focus in a skill of their choice as a bonus feat. This racial trait replaces the bonus feat trait.
1.Skill focus (x), Power attack, Point lank shot
2. Precise shot
3. Iron will
4. rapid shot
5. Quick draw, weapon training (heavy blades)
6. manyshot
7. Tougness
8. Skill focus (y), Improved critical (falchion)
9. Deadly aim, Weapon training (bows)
10. Weapon focus (long bow)
11. Dazzing assault
you will be good enough at melee (+4 damage with weapon training plus gloves of dueling) and archery (all the important feat are there).
Besides if you put your favored class bonus in skills you will have 5 skills per level plus to skill focus feats.
| Kimera757 |
I've been wondering this for a while not sure if its possible. I dont have much experience with fighters because I generally hate having to specialize in 1 thing (two weapon fighting/archer/Two handed).This got me thinking has anyone built a fighter who is say a two handed fighter and an archer?
Is it possible within wealth and stats?
My initial thought is the two handed fighter only really needs power attack. So use that then choose weapon training on bows to make up for my lower dex and put bonus feats towards the archery chain (Point blank, precise, rapid shot, etc..)
Has anyone tried this before with some success?
How about some other combinations?
as an addendum is it possible to sneak in some skill feats as well so the fighter can be more outside of combat?
Will all of this stretch the fighter too much so as to be useless in lets say a mildly optimized group?
One of the fighter's advantages is a lack of stat-splitting. This fighter must split stats. They'll never be as good as a "specialist".
Furthermore, putting both Weapon Training and Weapon Specialization on the same type of weapon makes you better with it. If you're splitting that, you'll be weaker.
You can probably make a good fighter who is a decent off-archer (or vice versa), but you will always be behind in both ares.
Power Attack won't do it. The stat split will reduce your attack bonus. All that bonus damage means nothing if you're not hitting.
| Nicos |
Flamephoenix182 wrote:
I've been wondering this for a while not sure if its possible. I dont have much experience with fighters because I generally hate having to specialize in 1 thing (two weapon fighting/archer/Two handed).This got me thinking has anyone built a fighter who is say a two handed fighter and an archer?
Is it possible within wealth and stats?
My initial thought is the two handed fighter only really needs power attack. So use that then choose weapon training on bows to make up for my lower dex and put bonus feats towards the archery chain (Point blank, precise, rapid shot, etc..)
Has anyone tried this before with some success?
How about some other combinations?
as an addendum is it possible to sneak in some skill feats as well so the fighter can be more outside of combat?
Will all of this stretch the fighter too much so as to be useless in lets say a mildly optimized group?
One of the fighter's advantages is a lack of stat-splitting. This fighter must split stats. They'll never be as good as a "specialist".
Furthermore, putting both Weapon Training and Weapon Specialization on the same type of weapon makes you better with it. If you're splitting that, you'll be weaker.
You can probably make a good fighter who is a decent off-archer (or vice versa), but you will always be behind in both ares.
Power Attack won't do it. The stat split will reduce your attack bonus. All that bonus damage means nothing if you're not hitting.
-2 to attack will not make the fighter unable to hit.
| Nicos |
Human
Vanilla fighter
starting statsstr 16, Dex 16, con14, int 12, wis 12, cha 7
I recommend to put the level bonuses into str.
Focused Study All humans are skillful, but some, rather than being generalists, tend to specialize in a handful of skills. At 1st, 8th, and 16th level, such humans gain Skill Focus in a skill of their choice as a bonus feat. This racial trait replaces the bonus feat trait.
1.Skill focus (x), Power attack, Point lank shot
2. Precise shot
3. Iron will
4. rapid shot
5. Quick draw, weapon training (heavy blades)
6. manyshot
7. Tougness
8. Skill focus (y), Improved critical (falchion)
9. Deadly aim, Weapon training (bows)
10. Weapon focus (long bow)
11. Dazzing assaultyou will be good enough at melee (+4 damage with weapon training plus gloves of dueling) and archery (all the important feat are there).
Besides if you put your favored class bonus in skills you will have 5 skills per level plus to skill focus feats.
lets see at ten level
+1 Falchion (2K), +1 adaptative longbow (3K), +1 fullplate (2,5K),
Cracked pale grism Ioun stone (4K), Gloves of dueling (15K), belt of physical might (dex,str) (10K), cloak of resistante +3 (9K), Braces of the falcom aim (3K)
14 K unespended
Targeted AC 24
Melee
+1 Falchion: +21/+16: (2d4+21 15-20/x2)
or power attacking
+1 Falchion: +18/+13 (2d4+21 15-20/x2)
Ranged
+1 Adaptative longbow: +19/+19/+14 (1d8+9 19-20/x2)
or
+1 Adaptative longbow: +16/+16/+11 (1d8+15 19-20/x2)
Not bad with melee but maybe it would be better to take other feat instead of deadly aim*.
*maybe weapon specialization.
| K'tari |
I am not much for power gaming, we create characters and stories, but I am looking forward to having fun with a hobbit(sorry, just have to call them that from time to time) with daggers. He could be a fighter, rogue, swashbuckler, fighter/swashbuckler, etc. He mostly throws his daggers with point blank range and multiple modifiers but he has finesse so he can melee also. The only problem is he needs enough strength to carry a good supply until he gets up high enough to get some magical returning weapons, but from the stats I have seen on this site, that should not be a problem. (all our characters start with about an average of 12 (8/10/12/13/14/15 with some adjustments))
| drbuzzard |
You could always take a throwing weapon approach on a fighter (clustered shots is key here). Something like throwing axes or such. This way you get your weapon training, focus, and specialization all concentrated.
Something like
point blank shot
precise shot
deadly aim
clustered shots
power attack
weapon focus
weapon spec
rapid shot
quickdraw
With a human, you can have all these at level 7.
You'd need to grab a decent dex and strength.
With a 20 point buy is is possible to do:
Str 16
Dex 16
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 10
Chr 10
(you can jiggle the mental stats to suit).
You will eventually need a blinkback belt, so you end up with a shortage in the stat boosting item slot, but throwing makes the belt mandatory. You will also end up with cheaper weapons. I'd go with 4 +1 throwing axes, and just live without them getting fancy. Perhaps get them made out of adamantine (which isn't so bad on a light weapon). The advantage of the square rule on weapon costs is that multiples of a lower weapon isn't so much more expensive than a single higher bonus weapon (especially +1 vs. +2).
Now mind you this is not an amazing power gaming set up. It is, however, quite adequate and adaptable. You can keep your AC up by using a shield with the throwing, so you act something like a pillbox.
| Nicos |
Flamephoenix182 wrote:Hmm the throwing would work as well. Though the short range would hurt a bit.In the long run what kills most throwing builds is the price of all the magic weapons they have to buy.
I thin UE have a belt that solve the problem. Everytime you throw the weapo it return to the belt, I think.
| drbuzzard |
Adamantine Dragon wrote:I thin UE have a belt that solve the problem. Everytime you throw the weapo it return to the belt, I think.Flamephoenix182 wrote:Hmm the throwing would work as well. Though the short range would hurt a bit.In the long run what kills most throwing builds is the price of all the magic weapons they have to buy.
Yes, I mention it in my post. It's called the blinkback belt. It will let you hang 4 throwing weapons on it, and they teleport back to your belt at the end of each round. Hence you can just buy 4 weapons and magic them up a bit. I do address that some in my post, but I suppose I forgot to explain what the belt did. Without the belt throwing is completely impractical.