Multiple skill boost items

[jumpydady]

imagine i have a ring that gives me +10 in acrobatic +10 in stealth + 10 in escape artist + 10 in climb, ok i know each of the skill cost independently 10.000gp but if all four are in one how much does it cost? the confusion im having is because of the Multiple Similar Abilities and the Multiple Different Abilities rule :S

thx

[Drake Brimstone]

I'd treat Acrobatics, Climb and Escape Artist as Similar Abilities, but Stealth is Different and would cost more instead of getting a discount.

[jumpydady]

hummm i see

[jumpydady]

ok any more opinions to enlighten here? :P

[Gauss]

The section of rules that covers this is CRB page 553 "Adding New Abilities".

CRB p553 wrote:

If the item is one that occupies a specific place on a character’s body, the cost of adding any additional ability to that item increases by 50%. For example, if a character adds the power to confer invisibility to her ring of protection +2, the cost of adding this ability is the same as for creating a ring of invisibility multiplied by 1.5.

The pricing for your multiple skill boosting item is as follows:

10,000 for the first +10 skill.
10,000*1.5 for each subsequent +10 skill.

Total price for four +10 skills: 10,000 + 10,000*1.5 +10,000*1.5 + 10,000*1.5 + 10,000*1.5 = 55,000gp

Note: the similar abilities rule that Drake Brimstone applies to slotless items only.

CRB p549 wrote:

Multiple Similar Abilities: For items with multiple similar abilities that don’t take up space on a character’s body, use the following formula: Calculate the price of the single most costly ability, then add 75% of the value of the next most costly ability, plus 1/2 the value of any other abilities.

- Gauss

[HaraldKlak]

What Gauss said.

That is the way it works for headbands/belts boosting multiple ability scores.

[jumpydady]

ok thx :P, what i didnt understand was "multiple similar abilities that don’t take up space on a character’s body" was there any ability that does this?!

[Bearded Ben]

It's the item that doesn't take up space. "For items ... that don’t take up space on a character’s body"

[Gauss]

There are items that do not take up space on a character's body. Any slotless item does this. However, I cannot immediately think of a slotless item that has multiple stacked abilties for a discount. Perhaps someone with more time can search for one.

- Gauss

[jumpydady]

ok thx for the info :D

[Vendle]

The only slotless item I can name that sort of fits is the pale green prism Ioun stone: +1 competence bonus to attacks, saves, skill checks, and ability checks.

[HaraldKlak]

I am rather sure the discount doesn't apply even if you make a slotless multiple skill boosts item.

The pricing of "multiple similar abilities that don’t take up space on a character’s body" is, as I recall, only used for staves.

[Christoph]

I was wondering about those rules just now.

Multiple Similar Abilities: For items with multiple similar abilities that don't take up space on a character's body, use the following formula: Calculate the price of the single most costly ability, then add 75% of the value of the next most costly ability, plus 1/2 the value of any other abilities.

Multiple Different Abilities: Abilities such as an attack roll bonus or saving throw bonus and a spell-like function are not similar, and their values are simply added together to determine the cost. For items that take up a space on a character's body, each additional power not only has no discount but instead has a 50% increase in price.

So we've got pricing-rules for MSA not on characters, MDA not on characters and MDA on characters. What is about multiple similar abilities on a character's body? Shouldn't the belts and headbands be priced according to this missing rules, because they have up to three ability-increasing (so, up tp three similar abilities) abilities!?

[Cevah]

You forgot to ***Raise Thread*** :-)

Read the crafting feats and you see it is Craft Staff that has multiple similar abilities. [MSA]

Now lets get into theory crafting:
Let's make this a slotless ring.
Skill #1 @ +10 => (10*10*100*2) . . . . 20,000
Skill #2 @ +10 => (10*10*100*2)*.75 . . 15,000
Skill #3 @ +10 => (10*10*100*2)*.5 . . 10,000
Skill #4 @ +10 => (10*10*100*2)*.5 . . 10,000
Total of 55,000

Standard slotted ring:
10,000 + 15,000 + 15,000 + 15,000 = 55,000.

This is the break-even point, although the slotless one does not also use up a slot.

Add it skill #5, 6, 7, etc., and you pay 10,000 slotless vs. 15,000 slotted.

Basically, I see the MSA applying to something that you can only use one at a time, but MDA [multiple different abilities] as usable at the same time.

Yeah, figuring out magic item pricing is screwy. Remember, all custom items must have GM approval.

/cevah

[Christoph]

@ Cevah: I think it was my first post in this forum, so I don't know nothing about raising threads. XD

In general I understand the rules, but I wonder, shouldn't there be also a specific rule for slotted MSA?
At the moment there are rules specified for
slotless MSA (100% + 75% + 50% * x)
slotless MDA (100% + 100% * x)
and
slotted MDA (100% + 150% * x).

So either I'm missing a pricing rule for slotted MSA or a clear defintion of MSA and MDA, there differences, on which item-types they are used only. Because the way I read and understand it, i.e. Belts of Physical Might are slotted MSA to me(the example the thread-opener described, too), but are priced as slotted MDA.

[Cevah]

Christoph wrote:

@ Cevah: I think it was my first post in this forum, so I don't know nothing about raising threads. XD

In general I understand the rules, but I wonder, shouldn't there be also a specific rule for slotted MSA?

I don't think any existing items are slotted MSA. Or if there are, they don't follow the price guidelines.

Christoph wrote:

At the moment there are rules specified for

slotless MSA (100% + 75% + 50% * x)
slotless MDA (100% + 100% * x)

slotless MDA = slotless = (200% each)

Christoph wrote:

and

slotted MDA (100% + 150% * x).

So either I'm missing a pricing rule for slotted MSA or a clear defintion of MSA and MDA, there differences, on which item-types they are used only. Because the way I read and understand it, i.e. Belts of Physical Might are slotted MSA to me(the example the thread-opener described, too), but are priced as slotted MDA.

There is a clear definition of the pricing of MDA vs. MSA. There is not a clear definition of when MSA should be applied. That is why I use the test "use only one at a time" for MSA. With a staff, you have MSA (spell + spell + ... + spell) yet you can only use one at a time.

/cevah

[Losobal]

I think a comparison item would be our various belts of physical awesome. We can see the individual cost of one stat in a belt, and see that 2 belts of one stat are cheaper than 1 belt of both stats at same bonus.

[Christoph]

I don't know, I have the feeling, I can't explain my point to you. XD
In general I understand how it works.
But to me things like the Belt of Physical Awesome has three similar abilities (MSA) and not three different abilities (MDA).

MDA are defined as follows:
"Abilities such as an attack roll bonus or saving throw bonus and a spell-like function are not similar, [...]"

As cevah wrote above, x different spells on one item would be MSA. I didn't see the "use only one at a time" nowhere in the rules, cevah.
In my opinion, three different spells on an item is nothing different than three different ability increases on an item.
Thus making the Belt an item with MSA. Because it's worn on the waist, it should be a slotted MSA. But there are no pricing rules for slotted MSA and the Belt is priced like a slotted MDA.

So,
shouldn't it be written in the rules, that all slotted items are priced like slotted MDA
or
shouldn't there be a pricing rule added for slotted MSA?

[Cevah]

Christoph wrote:

As cevah wrote above, x different spells on one item would be MSA. I didn't see the "use only one at a time" nowhere in the rules, cevah.

That's because it is not in the rules.

I said that is how *I* determine it. I.e. houserule.

/cevah