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Antipaladin may be slightly more useless. Ever so.
... Nah. They are still good on their feet.
Also, my friend's Flagbearer Cavalier says nope (+5 to AC or attack. Dayurn!)
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I mixed wolf-riding Halfling Cavalier with Bard and got a very effective buff / backup heal / secondary melee character. I can run around behind things with a double 50' move, and still have my own actions for buffing or aid-another-ing, while putting myself into flanking position for the rogue/ninja.
Obviously, that only works because I'm a small character on a medium mount, but I think it's awesome.
It seems that the Cavalier is almost useless in PFS because none of the adventures involve riding. Except for the Halfing Cavalier mounted of a Wolf, of course ! LOL
i agree!!
and the samurai has the same fate as well!!also, can we mencion that those two classes are broken?
i hope for paizians to make a Knight clas or something more Knightly (some kind of game of thrones, or dragonlance itself [i never liked the dragonlance, but there where a well themed knights orders and deeds as the same for samurais and ninjas from lo5r akka Rokugan], maybe they just want to sell to us a book)
the Antipaladin is the alternate class for a paladin, but since theres no parties with evil themed adventures, that class is up to GM to make the alter ego for his party paladin (that means, that class is for an npc class with the option for players to pick it up)
How exactly are Cavaliers not "Knightly" and which meaning of "broken" are you using: "overpowered" or "mechanics don't work right"?
How exactly are Cavaliers not "Knightly" and which meaning of "broken" are you using: "overpowered" or "mechanics don't work right"?
broken as useles (at least as a players never take one)
and the more "Knightly" thing is, maybe if they call this class a "Mounted Soldier" or something, but i dont know much people even in this forum using it!!simply the class dont fit the whole campaign, as a superter his a totaly fail, as a tank is the same thing. As a GM i only use the Cavalier levels for bonuses at the end of some kingdom rewards for my players, and even so (as a free abilities) they never use it!!
lets try something: why dont we open a new thread asking for the users how often they pick a cavalier/samurai from APG & UC and lets see what happen
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In PFS as a rogue I would sometimes prefer a cavalier tank to a fighter (both on foot). At least then when I have sneak attack I also get the teamwork feat benifit. My PFS cavilier is just speced out as a fighter who has a lance on his horse in case its ever useful, and gives better advice than a 'normal' fighter
Also in CT PFS we have 3 samurai and at least one caviler.... havnt seen a single alchemist yet though.... and the samuri order of the seal dominate most fights in under 2 rounds
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Quimby DuCharn, Taldan Samurai of the Cockatrice 2, would have strong words for all of you nay-sayers - especially if you notice that the horse recieves a lot less love in the Samurai statblock. He makes a fairly devastating melee combatant with an emphasis on intimidation. Also, he likes to be off-putting to his companions.
I agree with the statement that people just aren't being creative enough with the classes. I find the challenge mechanic to be invaluable when there's a melee enemy that you want to soak the damage from in order to give your allies the chance to really devastate them.
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Potions of Spider Climb for the mount. Lasts for thirty minutes.just realize that some judges will require a "push" handle animal check to get the mount to drink it.
Alternatively, buy Oils instead of Potions. I would think you still need to "push" it to actually try to walk up a wall, but it's one less Handle Animal check.
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Isn't this more a complaint about how one never really gets to use Spirited Charge or Ride-by-Attack?
After all a Cavalier has a lot more going for them then just mounted abilities. Certainly they have a nice focus but that isn't all they get. Especially some of the absolutely amazing archetypes. (Mmmm, Emissary..)
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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I kick locks of butt
I'm picturing a guy in full plate yelling "Disable device!!!" as he kicks open a door that was shut with a very stylized lock.
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How is a full BAB martial weapon and heavy armour class with access to bonus feats useless in PFS? It's like a more versatile fighter that occasionally has access to a full HD animal companion.
I'm thinking of bringing in an Intimidate-focused Gendarme of the Cockatrice. Dazzling Display and Intimidating Prowess means he'll be scary off his mount, and really scary on it.
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It seems that the Cavalier is almost useless in PFS because none of the adventures involve riding. Except for the Halfing Cavalier mounted of a Wolf, of course ! LOL
This is 100% false.
I actually started a cavalier to prove this point (who is currently 7th level). Even without their mounts cavaliers have some very solid class features that more than enough let it contribute to a party.
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If you go into the Cavalier class thinking it's going to be a better mounted combatant than a smiting Paladin, you're going to be disappointed. But the Cavalier is damn near as versatile as the Bard when it comes to using Archetypes to alter their abilities.
Honor Guard: When it comes to tanking, you have to have tricks to keep damage off your allies. With no aggro mechanic (barring the maligned Antagonize feat), the only options are to do enough damage or make yourself an inviting target. The Bodyguard feat you get for free from this archetype is a third option which allows you to add a substantial amount to an allies AC when your enemy is intent on attacking them. Add in Order of the Dragon and some of the helpful halfling feats, with Combat Reflexes, and you can be pumping an adjacent allies AC by up to +6 multiple times per round. Oh and if they are still hit you can use In Harms Way to take that damage. Now that's a tank.
Emissary: Want to be mobile in medium armor without Fighter levels? Here you go. And you can still ride your mount just as well when you're not mucking around a dungeon.
Standardbearer: Fear saves are everywhere at lower levels. Getting a boost earlier is awesome. Plus there are a number of "flag cheese" options out there from the Flagbearer feat to the Banner of the Ancient King. Add some Bard levels and your static bonuses each round get scary.
All this leads to an awesome PrC as well: Battle Herald. It's got buffs. It's got debuffs. It's got healing. It's got furthered progression of both Bard and Cavalier abilities. Full BAB, two good saves. What more can you ask for?
In summation, I think the name evokes an image that may not be satisfied by game mechanics. But it's a darn good class.
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I don't think Cavaliers are useless, but I do think that, for beginning players at least, it's kind of a trap.
For someone new, the description paints a pretty clear picture of the cavalier being intrinsically tied to their mount:
Mounted upon his mighty steed, the cavalier is a brave warrior, using his wit, charm, and strength at arms to rally his companions and achieve his goals.
Now granted, that doesn't have to be the case, but we are largely message board junkies who pore through build discussions and guides, so we know how to better exploit the other aspects of the class.
Clumsy analogy: Druids can be extremely powerful without Wild Shape, but if someone shows up to PFS with their Druid and finds out they can't use Wild Shape in the majority of scenarios, they might get justifiably frustrated.
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Playing a mounted character (Paladin, Cavalier, Ranger or Druid) does present challenges.
Especially with the Cavalier, who’s major schtick is to be mounted.
However, I have a very successful gnome alchemist (mindchemist) 7 / cavalier (luring cavalier) 5 that I really enjoy playing a skirmisher / artillery with.
Sometimes you may not be able to charge.
Sometimes you may have difficulty getting your mount into the scenario.
But there are many, many, many scenarios where using a mounted character isn’t that big a deal.
Also, in our area, there’s a guy who uses a more standard charge’em cavalier fairly successfully.
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32
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Cavaliers make AMAZING PFS characters! I have no idea what cavaliers ya'll are encountering... maybe ones that focus entirely on mounted combat? Things that a cavalier does great: Tactician, Banner, tanking, melee, Challenge (a more versatile Smite IMO), plus whatever their order focuses in.
To give a glimpse of where my cavaliers have headed, he's my origional proto-type build concepts: HERE
im still waiting the fix for this class. i was waiting that in the knights of the inner sea came with a cavalier archetype for every country in varisia and how he works:
Varisian knight: bla bla bla
Ustalavic Knight (maybe the ravens from Carrion Crown Module)
and brevoy, etc... imagine a M´wangi knight, did he will use a full plate? how it works?
even so, how works an elven knight, dwarven knight... just... the same for the samurai (how it works a samurai from the east and one samurai from the inner sea and so)
but thats a job for a DM as a fix the class itself
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It seems that the Cavalier is almost useless in PFS because none of the adventures involve riding. Except for the Halfing Cavalier mounted of a Wolf, of course ! LOLThis is 100% false.
I actually started a cavalier to prove this point (who is currently 7th level). Even without their mounts cavaliers have some very solid class features that more than enough let it contribute to a party.
OK. I understand what you're saying. As I am rather new to PFS can you explain what "solid class features" those are? In case this came across wrong I mean no offense, just information seeking. I used to love playing Cavaliers in AD&D; waaay back then it was a long running home campaign, but now I see them as very limited. I have played about a dozen modules in PFS play and have never seen a use for a Cavalier. A friend plays a Halfing Cav. riding a wolf. His small size seems to be a detriment, but even with the advantages of the wolf, he is very limited from using his primary attack, the mounted charge.
Any anwers/clarification is always appreciated.
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32
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Your hang-up, Erosthenes, seems to be on one class feature gained at 3rd level (which upgrades at 11th & 20th... levels hard/never obtained in PFS), while you are missing everyother class feature the cavalier has to offer: Tactician, Challenge, Banner, bonus Combat Feats, and your Order abilities.
Tactician is one of the best abilities you can use both early & late game - my current cavalier for PFS utilized his Tactician ability for the feat Escape Routes at level 1, and being able to grant that feat to the entire table has been a tremendous boon and even saved the party many, many times.
How is doing 3x damage at low levels useless in PFS? Mix this with Challenge and the +4 for charging.
Pick a small race and a winner is you.
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How is doing 3x damage at low levels useless in PFS? Mix this with Challenge and the +4 for charging.
Pick a small race and a winner is you.
That's great when you get to charge. What's your backup plan? Don't get me wrong, I love Cavaliers. But you have to build around more than mounted combat if you want to feel useful in PFS.
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Alternatively, buy Oils instead of Potions. I would think you still need to "push" it to actually try to walk up a wall, but it's one less Handle Animal check.Potions of Spider Climb for the mount. Lasts for thirty minutes.just realize that some judges will require a "push" handle animal check to get the mount to drink it.
You'll need an Oil and if memory serves a full round action to apply the oil. (The full round may be only unconscious, but going from memory)
If no oil, a push (Ever try feeding your dog it's medicine? Not easy).
Then to get it to do something it's never been aware it could do before, another push. (Google Dog won't go through nonexistant screen door videos for reference. They're both hilarious and enlightening.)
That's great when you get to charge. What's your backup plan? Don't get me wrong, I love Cavaliers. But you have to build around more than mounted combat if you want to feel useful in PFS.How is doing 3x damage at low levels useless in PFS? Mix this with Challenge and the +4 for charging.
Pick a small race and a winner is you.
The fact that I have a full leveled combat-trained animal companion, full bab, and ability to wear full plate helps in those situations I can't charge.
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The fact that I have a full leveled combat-trained animal companion, full bab, and ability to wear full plate helps in those situations I can't charge.That's great when you get to charge. What's your backup plan? Don't get me wrong, I love Cavaliers. But you have to build around more than mounted combat if you want to feel useful in PFS.How is doing 3x damage at low levels useless in PFS? Mix this with Challenge and the +4 for charging.
Pick a small race and a winner is you.
Agreed. The point is you need to plan your character with the assumption that you won't even be mounted, much less charging, most of the time. If all you focus on is charging, or mounted combat, you're gonna have a bad time.
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So like others have said in this thread, it's all about how you look at the class. For me I saw the Cavalier as someone who was a battlefield leader first and foremost. My main character right now is an Order of the Dragon Cavalier 7(Honor Guard, Strategist) / Fighter 3. Sure he only has a 30 AC, but he can Aid Another to increase AC at a +8(+3 Order of the Dragon, +1 Intercept Archtype feature, +3 Benevolent Armor, +1 from Ring of Tactical Precision) 4 times a round (Combat Reflexes) as an attack of opportunity (Bodyguard feat).
To me (and most GMs I've played with) that makes my character the most dangerous target on the battlefield. Sure the rogue or barbarian is pumping out the most amount of damage in melee, but I can make sure that they DON'T get hit.
*edited for spelling*
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Speaking of Dragon Style and mounts, can a mount use Dragon Style? I've had GMs that have said "They can have the feat, but can't enter the style" before.
I don't have a mounted character myself, but this is how it was ruled at tables I've been at. I personally think that mounts should be able to use it.
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Speaking of Dragon Style and mounts, can a mount use Dragon Style? I've had GMs that have said "They can have the feat, but can't enter the style" before.
I don't have a mounted character myself, but this is how it was ruled at tables I've been at. I personally think that mounts should be able to use it.
You will probably get some table variation. I personally see no reason why an int 3 horse cannot pretend to be a dragon. It does have above animal int after all
At any rate, taking Wheeling Charge and using a wand of feather step is significantly better.
I've got a small cav multiclass who is level 3, and I've never had trouble charging so far.
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My solution,
Order of the Tome, at level 8 I whip out my scroll/wand of reduce animal. My animal companion is now small enough to go with me.
Not order of the tome? Well that is what potions were made for. Mix it with some water and sugar and give it to your horse in a bucket.
Who's to say that water and sugar doesn't make it worthless? or doesn't cause some other effect, like kill your horse?
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Who's to say that water and sugar doesn't make it worthless? or doesn't cause some other effect, like kill your horse?My solution,
Order of the Tome, at level 8 I whip out my scroll/wand of reduce animal. My animal companion is now small enough to go with me.
Not order of the tome? Well that is what potions were made for. Mix it with some water and sugar and give it to your horse in a bucket.
Or do the relatively easy action to push your companion to do a trick it doesn't know and drink it. Now about the save....