I'm currently playing a magus (straight up, no kensai or bladebound). He's level 3 and I've played him through about 12 sessions so far.
Present thoughts:
* The beginning levels really hurt. I didn't get dervish dance until level 3, and won't get spell recall until level 4, leaving me woefully underwhelming compared to the strength-based, massive-reach-built monk in the party. Things will definitely improve next level when I can start burning my arcane pool for extra shocking grasps, but it's been a bit painful to rarely measure up to the rest of the group at this point.
* That said, I don't feel completely useless. My AC has been good up to this point (extremely good when I cast Shield), and Color Spray is an amazing spell if you can get a few folks in position for it without your party messing things up. :p
Future thoughts:
* Spell Recall is a huge boost in effectiveness. Currently I wind up wasting 3-4 arcane pool points each day by not spending them. I suppose I could be burning them on Arcane Accuracy, but thus far, having 2 clerics (for Bless) and a bard in the group, we haven't encountered anything with such a high AC that it's felt necessary. Once I can burn these points on recalling Shocking Grasps, I should be able to dish out a couple of rounds of serious pain.
* Reading through some old magus threads, I came across mention of a magus using the Flame Blade druid 2 spell (via UMD). This seems...impressively strong. Also cinematically neat (and I'm a nerd for cinematic imagery.) Does this fly, rules-wise? If so, how would DMs feel about a magus asking to research/invent the same spell on the magus spell list?
* Regarding gear I first considered shooting for a Ring of Wizardry I but the more I think of it, the more it seems to me a waste of gold compared to a handful of pearls. Whereas higher Rings of Wizardry may be worthwhile at mid- to high-levels.
* I currently have plans to grab Lunge at 9th-level, but I am starting to reconsider, namely because by that point I'll automatically succeed on any concentration check to cast Shocking Grasp regardless of how much metamagic I put on it (since it's always considered a 1st-level spell), and that is almost always going to be the spell I need to cast in melee range. Is the ability to occasionally attack with reach worth the feat? I suppose part of this will depend on how often we encounter large creatures with reach of their own...
* I've got Arcane Strike earmarked for level 11, which allows me to add +3 to weapon damage rolls by expending a swift action. The question then becomes how often I'll have my swift action free. Given that by this point I'll have a fair number of arcane pool points, and often want to be recalling a shocking grasp with my swift action, I'm not sure how useful this will wind up being. On the flipside, I haven't been able to find a lot of good feat options at these levels for a magus. As someone once pointed out (blackbloodtroll?) a magus' key means of dealing damage is through shocking grasp, and by this point I'll have taken (or have plans to take as soon as I qualify for) most of the feats that boost spell damage/utility.
I suppose I could move up Weapon Focus, which I hadn't planned on taking until 17th level. It feels like a weak option, but +1 to hit is never a bad thing, I figure, so I had it (and Greater Weapon Focus) earmarked as fillers after I couldn't think of anything else more effective.
* Greater Spell Access comes so late in the campaign that I haven't given it a lot of thought. Are there any spells I should make note of to definitely take? No need for full lists, but spells folks found particularly useful at 19th level would be nice. :)
As always, any thoughts on magus play (preferably from personal experience or observation) much appreciated! :)
Some thoughts in no particular order:
1. I never saw the Flame Blade spell before and that is pretty cool; it's treated as a scimitar so you'd be able to weapon finesse with it but since Dervish Dance replaces Str for Dex for damage I don't think you'd get your Dex in damage on top of the +1/2 level the spell gives.
2. For feats, I'd probably get Weapon Focus early and then pick up Weapon Specialization as one of your feats at 11th. At 7th I'd pick up Intensified Spell, and then Elemental Spell - Acid at 9th or 11th; Intensified is obvious, but Elemental Spell could definitely come in handy once you start running into lots of enemies with high elemental resistances and Acid seems to be one of the least common of those. Lunge is nice, but I wouldn't really consider it a priority. Improved Critical is also good once you meet the reqs if you're in a game where you can't always get the items you want or if you want to spend some of your Arcane Pool enhancement on something else.
3. Arcane Strike uses a swift, the same as Spell Recall, but once you use Spell Recall the spell is prepared again and doesn't have an expiration timer on it; you could just do all your Spell Recalls outside of combat and then use your swift each round for your Arcane Strike.
Might be worth a dip into wizard specializing with Admixture.
It would get you scribe scroll, the ability to change damage types with your spells and a few low level wizard goodies for your spell list (like mage armor) plus opens up wand options without needing a UMD check.
-Pearls of power are better cost effectivew choice for sure but if you find a RoW sweet.
-Lunge = awesome-sauce especially if you are high dex and can afford combat reflexes.
1. I never saw the Flame Blade spell before and that is pretty cool; it's treated as a scimitar so you'd be able to weapon finesse with it but since Dervish Dance replaces Str for Dex for damage I don't think you'd get your Dex in damage on top of the +1/2 level the spell gives.
My thinking was that as the blade is immaterial--has no heft, as it were--that it makes sense to lose your strength bonus, but as dex represents quickness and accuracy, it wouldn't interfere. However, even if you were to lose your +dex to damage, the real gem here for me is resolving all your attacks as touch attacks.
2. For feats, I'd probably get Weapon Focus early and then pick up Weapon Specialization as one of your feats at 11th. At 7th I'd pick up Intensified Spell,
I have intensified spell on the list as soon as I qualify. :) Weapon Specialization always felt like a poor feat for a magus. With a 3/4 BAB and a -2 from Spell Combat most of the time, my chances of hitting with my iterative attacks get worse as levels increase, and at best I'm looking at +2 damage per attack. Then again, I have at least one high-level feat currently unoccupied, so eventually it may be better than nothing.
Elemental Spell could definitely come in handy once you start running into lots of enemies with high elemental resistances and Acid seems to be one of the least common of those.
I've seen this feat listed on a couple of builds while going through old threads today. It definitely makes sense, though at least for the time being I've chosen to go a different route. Namely, I have invoked spell research to create my own custom spell for dealing with such situations:
School conjuration [force]; Level magus 3
CASTING
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S
EFFECT
Range personal
Target 1 wielded weapon
Duration 1 min./level (D)
DESCRIPTION
This spell creates a duplicate of the weapon you are wielding, which appears in your other hand. If your hand is not free, the spell fails. You gain an extra attack with this weapon once each round, as if you had the Two-weapon fighting feat, and the weapon is considered light for Two-Weapon fighting purposes. The Forceblade deals 1d6 force damage per caster level (maximum 10d6), and has the same crit range, multiplier, and attack bonus as the original weapon.
Should the weapon leave the caster's possession, it immediately dissipates and the spell ends. The weapon can be dismissed as a free action, but doing so ends the spell and the blade cannot be called back without recasting the spell.
Notes: Aran's Black Forceblade is an attempt to give Aran an option should he encounter an enemy that's resistant or immune to [Electricity] damage. It costs a 3rd-level slot and using the forceblade deals less overall damage than spellstriking with Shocking Grasp, so it's a net dps loss, but better than trying to Shocking Grasp an electricity-immune foe. Since Aran has to wield the forceblade in his offhand, it also means that he can't use Spell Combat without dismissing it.
It may not be as effective as acid substitution and definitely will cost more (a 3rd-level spell slot), but I love the imagery. :p And unless the campaign takes a turn and suddenly features all demons all the time, I shouldn't need it so much that the lesser efficiency will hurt me overmuch.
Lunge is nice, but I wouldn't really consider it a priority. Improved Critical is also good once you meet the reqs if you're in a game where you can't always get the items you want or if you want to spend some of your Arcane Pool enhancement on something else.
That's definitely true. I'd been relying on my arcane pool for that, but since I'm having trouble filling all my feat slots, Improved Crit would let me spend that point on something else. +1d6 damage is definitely better than the +2 from Weapon spec mathematically, so that makes it a serious contender.
Arcane Strike uses a swift, the same as Spell Recall, but once you use Spell Recall the spell is prepared again and doesn't have an expiration timer on it; you could just do all your Spell Recalls outside of combat and then use your swift each round for your Arcane Strike.
The only trouble with this plan is that I'd have to prepare a lot of Shocking Grasps in the morning, on order to be able to recall them at 1 arcane pool point each (the higher level ones with serious mojo, that is). If I am burning other spells for shocking grasp via Spell Perfection, I would have to pay the full slot price to recall them.
Might be worth a dip into wizard specializing with Admixture.
It would get you scribe scroll, the ability to change damage types with your spells and a few low level wizard goodies for your spell list (like mage armor) plus opens up wand options without needing a UMD check.
Sadly Mage Armor doesn't stack with normal armor, as far as I know.
Are there any wands in particular that you've found useful? With two clerics and an alchemist in the group, I don't need to worry about covering any of the group's healing. The only wand that seems particularly attractive to me at the moment would be a Wand of Flame Blade.
-Pearls of power are better cost effectivew choice for sure but if you find a RoW sweet.
Indeed!
-Lunge = awesome-sauce especially if you are high dex and can afford combat reflexes.
Hrm. I am definitely built for high-dex. I hadn't actually considered Combat Reflexes, but as an option after picking up lunch, it does seem pretty sweet. We currently have a strength-based monk in the party with a 30' reach and combat reflexes, and the number of attacks he gets can be downright crazy.
I'm considering a Magus (Kensai) so that Wizard Dip for Mage Armor looks better. I think I'll stick with Divination to always go in the Surprise round rather than admixture though. Too bad you can't take more than one magic trait.
Question: Are you using your Arcane Points to give your weapon a enhancement bonus?
Absolutely. I currently have 6 AP points (4 from int, 1 from 1/2 level, 1 from special item). We usually have about 3 combats a day, rarely more. That leaves me with 3 extra points and nothing to spend them on other than Arcane Accuracy. I'll likely be trying to remember to use this even if it doesn't feel absolutely necessary, at least until I get to 4th-level and can use those points to start recalling Shocking Grasp.
I'm considering a Magus (Kensai) so that Wizard Dip for Mage Armor looks better. I think I'll stick with Divination to always go in the Surprise round rather than admixture though. Too bad you can't take more than one magic trait.
If I understand the kensai correct from reading posts on these forums, they already wind up with a pretty hefty AC. A dip into wizard might cost you more than you gain, unless there are other bennies you're looking for.
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Kensai loses proficiency with armor and shields, hence the attraction of Mage Armor (perhaps from a wand). Gotta survive low levels somehow. Scribe scroll, always going in the surprise round, access to a LOT of first level spells right away and being able to use your blade as your arcane focus are the attractions.
From a non-mechanic's perspective, it fits the backstory. Level 1 diviner wizard with a blade he can't quite completely identify. He uses it as his arcane bonded object and BAM ! All subsequent levels are Magus (bladebound kensai), if he wants to or not.
From a non-mechanic's perspective, it fits the backstory. Level 1 diviner wizard with a blade he can't quite completely identify. He uses it as his arcane bonded object and BAM ! All subsequent levels are Magus (bladebound kensai), if he wants to or not.
Nice!
I just read in another post about a PC intensifying Fireball. I'd definitely planned on picking up Fireball in case I needed to do some blasting, but 15d6 for a 4th-level slot (at 15th-level) seems really nice! Especially since I'll already have Intensify Spell for Shocking Grasp.
Any and all magus tips/tricks from folks who've played them up are more than welcome. This is my first time playing the class, so I'm sure there's a lot I'm missing, even if I am a mechanics junky. :p
From a non-mechanic's perspective, it fits the backstory. Level 1 diviner wizard with a blade he can't quite completely identify. He uses it as his arcane bonded object and BAM ! All subsequent levels are Magus (bladebound kensai), if he wants to or not.Nice!
Can I second that this is very awesome conceptually?
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We currently have a strength-based monk in the party with a 30' reach and combat reflexes, and the number of attacks he gets can be downright crazy.
30' foot reach at 3rd level? what is his build?
Lunge (Combat)
You can strike foes that would normally be out of reach.
Prerequisites: Base attack bonus +6.
Benefit: You can increase the reach of your melee attacks by 5 feet until the end of your turn by taking a –2 penalty to your AC until your next turn. You must decide to use this ability before any attacks are made.
Lounge work only during your turn, so it don't help with AoO normally.
I have a Magus tip most are going to disagree with. That is that pool strike is -not- worthless.
Now put down the pitchforks and hear me out. Firstly its SU so it does not provoke AAO, and Not subject to SR/immunity. Now yes the damage is sub-par. And using spell recall for shocking grasp is pretty much always better. But it you play any archetype that gives up spell recall and has diminished casting (way to many of them do.) Then IMO its better then most ppl give it credit for.
Though on a straight magus is still pretty much junk.
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I have stayed away from spell recall preferring the kensai and pearls.
I keep seeing the notice 3/4 a detriment but you get +1 every 4 levels which stacks with weapon enhancements. And arcane accuracy can give you int to hit. I rarely miss with both attacks in spell combat and often turn the bonus into elemental damage dice. Consider enduring blade.
Additionally I keep deathwatch on via use magic device and when I see a key enemy go into low hps 0-3, I truestrike a thrown sword into him. If I can't reach him in a traditional way.
Another way to go for Dex to damage is aldori sword lord via kensai taking aldori dueling sword. It costs a caster level but you get it on every blade.
It seems most people don't ever put that much thought into recommending arcane accuracy and just do it because the forums say its good.
If you think about it though its rather lack luster. It burns through AP that could be better used. For what? The only time that to hit would be of any real matter is when power attacking and most Magi shouldn't be power attacking. With a one handed weapon and 3/4 BaB power attack is just not worth it. Here is the break down.
Power attack + Arcane accuracy Cost- 1 feat, 1 arcana and ever time its used is 1 swift action and 1 AP. Max gain from PA do to low BaB and one handed is +6 damage.
The alternative.
Arcane Strike. Cost- 1 feat and one swift action when used. Max gain is +5 damage.
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Or you could do what I did as a Magus and took exotic proficiency Bastard sword.
So at lower levels when you don't have many AP or many spells or even when you don't want to spell combat you can always use your free hand on the hilt and make your power attacks 2Handed - this is especially useful if you have Enlarge Person available (d10 becomes 2d8).
But its not an optimal feat choice true, but a good one if you are Strength based rather than Dex based.
I have a Magus tip most are going to disagree with. That is that pool strike is -not- worthless.
Now put down the pitchforks and hear me out. Firstly its SU so it does not provoke AAO, and Not subject to SR/immunity. Now yes the damage is sub-par. And using spell recall for shocking grasp is pretty much always better. But it you play any archetype that gives up spell recall and has diminished casting (way to many of them do.) Then IMO its better then most ppl give it credit for.
Though on a straight magus is still pretty much junk.
Actually, Pool Strike is an extremely useful ability. While it isn't as powerful as shocking grasp, it gives you the flexibility to choose an energy type on the fly.
Also, while it's damage starts at 2d6, it does scale every three levels (so it does 5d6 at 12th and still only costs 1 point from your Arcane Pool).
30' foot reach at 3rd level? what is his build?
He's playing a Large race and using a kusarigama, which is a reach weapon (which doubles your natural reach). It may only be a 20' reach actually now that I think about it. But since he takes up a 10x10 space it's 30' in practice. Naturally, he's taken Combat Reflexes. :p
I have no doubt I'll catch up and possibly even surpass him once we reach mid-level, when I can start burning through more Shocking Grasps. But at this stage of the campaign, he's definitely the heavy-hitter.
Lounge work only during your turn, so it don't help with AoO normally.
Hrm. Good point. I'm not too broken up about it though, since I didn't plan on burning a feat on Combat Reflexes anyway. I was more interested in 1) being able to cast higher-level spells without worrying about a concentration check, and 2) being able to attack past other members of my party. If everyone shows up, we have 5 melee attackers (plus a bard bow-jockey and alchemist explosives expert), so in tight quarters getting into a position to attack in melee can be challenging. Having the option of using Lunge to attack from the second row could prove very valuable.
It seems most people don't ever put that much thought into recommending arcane accuracy and just do it because the forums say its good.
If you think about it though its rather lack luster.
For me the problem was that a lot of the magus arcana are lackluster, particularly the ones with low or no level requirements. Finding an arcane I could take at level 3 that I was really excited about was simply not possible.
So I chose Arcane Accuracy figuring that against foes with extremely high ACs it could prove situationally useful. And we definitely encounter those from time to time. My int is very good (19 currently, will bump it to 20 then boost with items as opportunity/money allows) so it's a not insignificant bonus when I need it.
I wish there were something more all-around useful, but nothing caught my eye.
Speaking of future plans, what weapon enchantments have folks found synergize best with the magus?
I've heard a lot of folks recommend spell storing, but given Spell Recall it strikes me as underwhelming, especially since a stored spell loses your caster level.
What are you guys putting on your blades?
"A spell storing weapon allows a spellcaster to store a single targeted spell of up to 3rd level in the weapon. (The spell must have a casting time of 1 standard action.) Anytime the weapon strikes a creature and the creature takes damage from it, the weapon can immediately cast the spell on that creature as a free action if the wielder desires. (This special ability is an exception to the general rule that casting a spell from an item takes at least as long as casting that spell normally.) Once the spell has been cast from the weapon, a spellcaster can cast any other targeted spell of up to 3rd level into it. The weapon magically imparts to the wielder the name of the spell currently stored within it. A randomly rolled spell storing weapon has a 50% chance of having a spell stored in it already. This special ability can only be placed on melee weapon"
Since the weapon doesn't have a caster level either spell storing doesn't work at all OR you use the casters CL.
The lure of spell storing is the nova. 2 Intencified Shoocking grasp the same round. Not sure if a spell in a spell storing weapon would crit if the attack was a crit...
I see it as a once pr encounter ability - not sure if it's worth it.
It seems most people don't ever put that much thought into recommending arcane accuracy and just do it because the forums say its good.
If you think about it though its rather lack luster.
For me the problem was that a lot of the magus arcana are lackluster, particularly the ones with low or no level requirements. Finding an arcane I could take at level 3 that I was really excited about was simply not possible.
So I chose Arcane Accuracy figuring that against foes with extremely high ACs it could prove situationally useful. And we definitely encounter those from time to time. My int is very good (19 currently, will bump it to 20 then boost with items as opportunity/money allows) so it's a not insignificant bonus when I need it.
I wish there were something more all-around useful, but nothing caught my eye.
Yeah that's fair I will certainly agree with you here. The number of Arcana that are 1/day is annoying and many of them have IMO a bit to high of a lvl req on them.
For 3rd lvl the only other even useful options are perhaps familiar and wand wielder. The problem is familiar is only good if you have room in your feats for improved and at lvl 3 you really can not afford many wands yet.
So yeah you have a fair point. I hope to see another Arcana or two in future books.
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If everyone shows up, we have 5 melee attackers (plus a bard bow-jockey and alchemist explosives expert), so in tight quarters getting into a position to attack in melee can be challenging. Having the option of using Lunge to attack from the second row could prove very valuable.
another option is to use Spring Attack. you can cross ally squares, make an attack from an ally square, then end your move in an unoccupied square. pretty sure you can't combo it with Shocking Grasp though... but can always ask (and investing 3 feats might lend weight to your ask)...
I look at the class and love the gish idea, love the action economy, but keeps thinking it doesn't really work.
The AC is a problem problem if you don't go dex based.
Who cares if you can cast in full plate at level 13 when most AP ends around 14-15? So I look for ways to fix it. taking heavy armor prof at lvl 7 + buying a mithral full plate. Look for races with an AC boost.
Arcane pool - too little. So much potientiel, but to few points... You I you go Kensei you would have more arcane point - but then you loose spell recall... I just look at is a way to enhance my weapon - anything else no points for it.
Spell - too few. And not spontanous caster. if you spend ½ of an AP not working - then thats a problem.
Damage - it's okay. And that perfect full attack with an intencified shocking grasp - that crits, and when the other attacks hits as well, against a low AC target, so you could use your arcane point for shock, flaming and frost instead of +1 to hit - well it's gonna be awesome, a moment of glory. - just don't go into the class thinking it's broken in overpowered way (if your party is optimized (read:used natural attacks) this class can barely keep up).
For 3rd lvl the only other even useful options are perhaps familiar and wand wielder.
Wand Wielder never appealed to me, mostly for flavor reasons. My PC's flavor is as an airship captain and semi-pirate, and when I envision him fighting, I like the idea of him alternating between one- and two-handed grips on his sword (not mechanically, just fluff-wise).
Now Familiar I gave a lot of thought to. I think a hawk pet/familiar would have fit the character rather well, and as a player I place a lot of value on Perception. It's not a class skill for magi sadly, but getting a hawk familiar could help compensate for that.
Unfortunately I then read the rules for familiars in Pathfinder, and discovered that in order to grant its bonuses to you, the familiar has to be in arm's reach. And that just seemed silly. I'd be fighting while my familiar was flying overhead, not with the bloody thing on my shoulder. >.<
So yeah you have a fair point. I hope to see another Arcana or two in future books.
Me too!
another option is to use Spring Attack. you can cross ally squares, make an attack from an ally square, then end your move in an unoccupied square. pretty sure you can't combo it with Shocking Grasp though... but can always ask (and investing 3 feats might lend weight to your ask)...
Hrm. That's an interesting idea. But expensive. So expensive. I've had characters go down that route before, but I'm hoping it won't be necessary this time around.
My character is dex-based and has Acrobatics maxed out. Between that, Lunge, and spells such as Bladed Dash, I'm hoping he'll be able to find a way to get somewhere advantageous. :)
its not straight up awesome in execution unless you think about getting the most out of it and unless you flat out got great rolls, its a very MAD class even if you do go the Dervish Dancer route.
I agree. I did wind up with great rolls so I'm not facing MAD, but to get the most out of the magus class you definitely need to have 3 good stats minimum, either strength or dex, int, and con. While you could give up a high int and just go with getting items to boost you to the minimum needed to cast your spells, that removes your effectiveness as a blaster/debuffer, which is a large part of the magus' versatility. Likewise a low con will make standing on the front lines for any length of time more dicey.
Its a great class and one that I enjoy playing but I have about the same expectations of them that I have of other classes - sure they have a damage spike schtick when crits/shocking grasps go their way but for the rest of the time the have to work hard to make sure they hold up their fair share of the burdens of adventuring with the rest of the party.
One mistake I made with my magus was not writing up an alternative to Arcane Mark at 1st-level. I refused to use Arcane Mark to activate Spellstrike/Spell Combat, but without that extra attack, you're going to feel really underwhelming at low levels.
I highly suggest that folks planning on playing a magus from level 1 either suck it up and use Arcane Mark or, if you're like me and find it untenable, see if your dm will allow you to write up an alternative cantrip that seems less silly, but also provides that magical melee touch attack.
a dip from magus into druid would get you access to the cure light woulds spell.
spontaneous summon natures ally.
some neat little toys is you went menhir savant archetype
and access to the flame blade spell.
Magus 6/Menhir savant 3 would do what you want.
draw back is you are stuck in hide armor, but dark leaf is kinda interesting.
at higher level you would need to wear dragon hide (heavy)
menhir savant and magus have a neat multi class feel to them.
For the third level Arcana, I have thought about grabbing Close Range. this would allow the use of the Cantrip: Ray of Frost with the spell strike feature. Allowing the magus to deal a extra 1d3 damage with that attack.
I probably would have gone with that arcana if the Magus wasn't allowed the Arcane Mark trick for attacking.
I'm a weird man when it comes to cheese.
I wouldnt allow arcane mark to work.( But spell combat, close range, and spellstrike combo is no problem.)
I HATE dervish dance, which i think is cheesy, but I would allow flame blade to work fully with dervish dance.
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I, personally, have no real problem with Dervish Dance. The only real issue I have with it is that it only works with a Scimitar.
This never bothered me, mostly because I tend to completely divorce mechanics from flavor text. My magus picked up Dervish Dance but he's not a whirling dervish, nor is his weapon a scimitar.
Mechanically, yes. But in-game he wields a gunblade and fights with it using a self-taught style of swordsmanship that emphasizes speed over strength.
I guess if you must always use the flavor text as written I can see how it'd be bothersome. But both as a DM and a player, I've never felt the necessity.
My magus' "scimitar" is a gunblade. Last time I DM'd sturges they weren't bugs but porcelain dolls that distended their jaws and latched onto the PCs to suck out their blood.
I stick to the mechanics for balance reasons. But the flavor text is all mine. :)
I've played two Magi, but they were for very short times, as the games they were in crashed and burned only a few sessions in.
So, I have a question regarding Dervish Dance; is it pretty much required for Magus, the way Power Attack is pretty much required to be a competent Fighter? I ask because the flavor of the feat, as well as the actual print resource it came out of, are very setting specific, yet 99% of Magus builds I see on the forum ALL have it.
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Its not required - in fact I personally hate it's inclusion to anything BUT the culture it was introduced to. Its just cheese for the min maxers.
They see it as a way to get double value out of a high Dex and allow them to buy down Strength.
BUT YMMV - just cause I dislike it doesn't mean its not effective.
Required? Not at all. Str magus is more then viable. The problem is the low lvls.
Since they can not use med or heavy armor until much later a str magus has a pretty bad AC at low lvls where one is already pretty prone to being one hit killed by a crit. So it can be rough going.
What Magus needs is an archetype focused on what a STR magus needs. Med armor at lvl 1 and heavy at 7 for instance. Ohh and that does not give up spell combat like way to many archetypes do.
Its not required - in fact I personally hate it's inclusion to anything BUT the culture it was introduced to. Its just cheese for the min maxers.
They see it as a way to get double value out of a high Dex and allow them to buy down Strength.
BUT YMMV - just cause I dislike it doesn't mean its not effective.
I feel the same way. Honestly, the mechanical crunch of the Dervish Dance feat doesn't trouble me very much, but I'm a stickler for flavor and fluff detail. Just doesn't feel right pilfering a setting/culture's unique properties for things not from there.
Sort of like playing an Eberron setting, and having players grab Ravenloft feats; those setting-specific feats are there for a reason, and different settings have different levels of power, magic may function differently, etc. I could see possibly re-flavoring a feat or something, but at the very least I'd like to see a character background show where they got that training.
None of those have anything to do with Scimitars and DEX, but I figure there's a reason Dervish Dance has not been reprinted in a more generic fashion for the rest of PF to use. If DD were in something generic like the APG or GMG, I don't think I'd mind it. Just my 2 cents.
Required? Not at all. Str magus is more then viable. The problem is the low lvls.
Since they can not use med or heavy armor until much later a str magus has a pretty bad AC at low lvls where one is already pretty prone to being one hit killed by a crit. So it can be rough going.
What Magus needs is an archetype focused on what a STR magus needs. Med armor at lvl 1 and heavy at 7 for instance. Ohh and that does not give up spell combat like way to many archetypes do.
Heck I'm playing a Samurai 1 / Magus 4 (Kensai/Blade Bound) and I'm strength based... yes I'm going to be a few points behind in damage but it's doable..
Required? Not at all. Str magus is more then viable. The problem is the low lvls.
Since they can not use med or heavy armor until much later a str magus has a pretty bad AC at low lvls where one is already pretty prone to being one hit killed by a crit. So it can be rough going.
What Magus needs is an archetype focused on what a STR magus needs. Med armor at lvl 1 and heavy at 7 for instance. Ohh and that does not give up spell combat like way to many archetypes do.
Yes, Indeed.
Skirnir would answer this, if not for giving up spell combat.However, it's NOT that bad.
People go for magus BECAUSE of spellcombat, so when you see you don't get it until level 8 or worse, it's poop.
But the Skrinir is not as bad in practice as it is on paper.
We played with a Skirnir last night while the stuperbowl was on.
My kids magus WAS a hex crafter but she kept forgetting to use the hexes. So I let it be rebuilt as a skirnir (we had not played since right before christmas so it ruined no continuity)
Here's her build:
Str 13
dex 15
con 12
int 17
wis 10
cha 9
Human
Skirnir magus 5
Feats:
Improved shield bash
TWF
weapon prof whip
weapon focus whip
whip mastery
This particular build was actually quite useful. She burned a feat on TWF and another on improve shield bash, BUT the skirnir gets to act as a fighter for her shield feats so she will continue in this direction.
She has plenty of AC (even at first level)
has a lot of defensive options
and she didn't have to spend the normal perquisites to be useful in close in combat with her spell combat.
PLUS she got spellstrike at level 1 and doesn't have to find ways to to keep making her concentration checks or blowing spell after spell on spell combat.
She doesnt run out of spells that fast, and once she DOES get spell combat at 8th level it will be much more relevant.
She took maneuver master trip as her arcana.
She will likely take improved trip at some point and pool strike as well.
in practice it isnt as bad as it looks at first glance.
Even if you weren't to take TWF, a whip wielding skirnir can still use the shield to bash, covering up the low level lack of the whip to make AoOs or attack close in.
You can arcane pool up the shield and spell strike through it just like a normal weapon.
It's pretty decent, you should try it if wanting to get away from the run of the mill magus.
Stat wise.
she could have easily put her 17 in str, 13 in Dex and 15 in int. not taken TWF, and been better at tripping with the whip. AC would be down a little but would have another feat to spend on something.
So, real life has conspired to slow down our game a great deal, and we've only recently reached level 4. Most of the things I've already mentioned in this thread still hold.
One thing that came up as I was reading the forums recently was the spell Monstrous Physique. Originally I'd written it off, but upon further consideration this seems like a pretty nice spell for a magus.
For a 3rd-level spell you can a handful of potent abilities, including flight. So you could prep this spell instead of Fly and have access to Darkvision, Low-light Vision, Flight, and Scent as needed, as well as a bonus to strength or dex, a natural armor bonus, and possibly extra attacks (you gain any natural attacks the form possesses.)
Edit: I know this is a thread necro, but it seemed more sensible to merely continue my original post and retain the info contained in it, than to start an entirely new thread about the same subject.
Unfortunately I then read the rules for familiars in Pathfinder, and discovered that in order to grant its bonuses to you, the familiar has to be in arm's reach. And that just seemed silly. I'd be fighting while my familiar was flying overhead, not with the bloody thing on my shoulder. >.<!
Read that section again. The arms-reach bit applies to the Alertness feat, but NOT to the special ability, i.e. the skill or initiative bonus the familiar provides. For that, the familiar and the master simply need to be within 1 mile of each other
It would be nice to see an official (ie non-3rd party) spontaneous caster variant of the Magus.
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It would be nice to see an official (ie non-3rd party) spontaneous caster variant of the Magus.
Check the Wayfinder magazine (it is available for free from Paizo), in one of the issues there is a spontaneous casting, CHA based magus.
Personally I think it is not a good idea to have a spontaneous casting magus as it is a power up for the class, but I have no actual experience with the rules proposed in Wayfinder, so maybe it is balanced.Edit: it is in Wayfinder 7. The Spell reserve ability is badly written as the extra spell should go away when you regain your spells or you should spend your arcana pool point every day to maintain the spell.