Darkleaf Cloth options

[blackbloodtroll]

What Armors/Weapons can be made from Darkleaf Cloth?

Are there Eastern Armors that could be made from Darkleaf Cloth?

Could a Sling, Cat-o'-nine-tails, Whip, Rope Gauntlet, Scorpion Whip, Garrote, Net, Snag Net, Lasso, or Bladed Scarf be made of Darkleaf Cloth?

Could a Madu be made of Darkleaf Cloth?

[blackbloodtroll]

Could Kikko Armor, Do-maru, or Leather Lamellar be made of Darkleaf Cloth?

What about an Armored Kilt?

[mplindustries]

Anything made primarily of Cured Leather, Fur, or Hide.

So, pretty much Leather Armor, Hide Shirt, and Hide Armor (and whips, but it does nothing for weapons).

So, of the weapons you mentioned, only the three whips would work because they're the only ones made of leather, fur, or hide. They'd also receive no benefit because Darkleaf Cloth only gives any real benefit to armor.

Kikko Armor and Do-Maru contain lots of metal. If Studded Leather is too much metal for Darkleaf Cloth (and it is specifically called out as such), then Kikki and Do-Maru also contain too much metal.

Leather Lamellar contains Lacquered Leather, while Darkleaf Cloth only works for Cured Leather, so again, no.

[Whale_Cancer]

mplindustries wrote:

If Studded Leather is too much metal for Darkleaf Cloth (and it is specifically called out as such), then Kikki and Do-Maru also contain too much metal.

"As such padded, leather, studded leather, and hide armor can be made out of darkleaf cloth (although other types of armor made of leather or hide might be possible)."

[mplindustries]

Whale_Cancer wrote:

mplindustries wrote:

If Studded Leather is too much metal for Darkleaf Cloth (and it is specifically called out as such), then Kikki and Do-Maru also contain too much metal.

"As such padded, leather, studded leather, and hide armor can be made out of darkleaf cloth (although other types of armor made of leather or hide might be possible)."

Reading Comprehension fail, sorry.

I still say no to those armors, though, since they contain much more metal than studded leather.

[blackbloodtroll]

Even Leather Lamellar?

That seems the most likely of the Eastern Armors.

[mplindustries]

Like I said, Darkleaf works for Cured Leather--leather lamellar uses lacquered leather. If you think you can lacquer Darkleaf Cloth, then I guess go for it, but I wouldn't think so.

[Artanthos]

mplindustries wrote:

Whale_Cancer wrote:

mplindustries wrote:

If Studded Leather is too much metal for Darkleaf Cloth (and it is specifically called out as such), then Kikki and Do-Maru also contain too much metal.

"As such padded, leather, studded leather, and hide armor can be made out of darkleaf cloth (although other types of armor made of leather or hide might be possible)."

Reading Comprehension fail, sorry.

I still say no to those armors, though, since they contain much more metal than studded leather.

Could the studs in studded leather be replaced with darkwood?

The material grants benefits similar to darkleaf when applied to shields and has cost modifier comparable to darkleaf.

It would also make studded leather druid friendly.

Alternately, use mithral studs.

[cwslyclgh]

mplindustries wrote:

So, of the weapons you mentioned, only the three whips would work because they're the only ones made of leather, fur, or hide. They'd also receive no benefit because Darkleaf Cloth only gives any real benefit to armor.

You do realize that slings (also mentioned) are most commonly made out of two long leather strips and a leather pouch (for holding the stone or bullet) right?

[blackbloodtroll]

I am not seeing the "cured leather" restriction. I thought anything made of leather could be made of Darkleaf Cloth.

[mplindustries]

blackbloodtroll wrote:

I am not seeing the "cured leather" restriction. I thought anything made of leather could be made of Darkleaf Cloth.

"An item made from darkleaf cloth weighs half as much as the same item made from normal cured leather, furs, or hides."

I see now that the next line, "Items not primarily constructed of leather, fur, or hide are not meaningfully affected by being partially made of darkleaf cloth."

So, now I'm not sure. This special material is strange.

Why not just ask about the specific trick you want to use this with, rather than asking roundabout questions to get there?

[blackbloodtroll]

The "other types of armor made of leather or hide might be possible" part also makes me believe there are more than just "cured leather" armors possible.

[Nefreet]

For what it's worth, I just made a Sylph Sky Druid for an upcoming campaign and asked the GM if I could purchase Darkleaf Lamellar armor for her to wear, and he didn't see why not.

[Nefreet]

I would imagine the word "cured" was used to eliminate the desire to strap on newly skinned hides and use them just as effectively as a finished product.

I probably wouldn't use that as a limiting factor, otherwise nothing could be made out of darkleaf cloth.

[Rick McAdams]

I have a question the weight and movement speed when wearing darkleaf cloth hide armor. Probably I am doing some wishful thinking.

Regular hide armor is weight of 25, AC4 and max dex of 4, and medium armor speed of 20

Darkleaf hide is 12.5, max dex of 6, AC4, and still medium speed of 20? It seems like as with mithral, the weight/speed category would move to light/30.

By the way, I liked the answer I read elsewhere about making darkleaf studded armor using darkwood studs. That would be a unique set of armor.

[Diekssus]

Nefreet wrote:

I would imagine the word "cured" was used to eliminate the desire to strap on newly skinned hides and use them just as effectively as a finished product.

I probably wouldn't use that as a limiting factor, otherwise nothing could be made out of darkleaf cloth.

if that was the case, they wouldn't have also added the word "hides" to them, cause those are definitely not treated.

I'd have to agree that lacquered leather would not be replaceable with darkleaf. "because darkleaf cloth remains flexible, it cannot be used to construct rigid items such as shields or metal armors" lacquered armor would completely ruin the point. as in that case, there would be no reason not to make it into metal items, since it is now rigid. and it would exclude lacquered armor for not being supple any more

you can consider that fluff text if you like, we have to base this consensus on something and "although other types of armor made of leather or hide might be possible" leaves it to our judgment.

[Diekssus]

Rick McAdams wrote:

I have a question the weight and movement speed when wearing darkleaf cloth hide armor. Probably I am doing some wishful thinking.

Regular hide armor is weight of 25, AC4 and max dex of 4, and medium armor speed of 20

Darkleaf hide is 12.5, max dex of 6, AC4, and still medium speed of 20? It seems like as with mithral, the weight/speed category would move to light/30.

By the way, I liked the answer I read elsewhere about making darkleaf studded armor using darkwood studs. That would be a unique set of armor.

it is indeed wishful thinking ;)

All (2) of the materials that reduce its armor class have it specifically mentioned, in the same publication. So its not the case that simply because the weight matches, it would drop. sorry.

I also like the idea of making such a druid armor. By making it a specific magical item that would be very easy to do. I mean, in inner sea combat we have suits made out of the carcasses of ice devils. some awesome druid armor made out of various materials shouldn't be to far out.

[Sargonoth]

Diekssus wrote:

Nefreet wrote:

I would imagine the word "cured" was used to eliminate the desire to strap on newly skinned hides and use them just as effectively as a finished product.

I probably wouldn't use that as a limiting factor, otherwise nothing could be made out of darkleaf cloth.

if that was the case, they wouldn't have also added the word "hides" to them, cause those are definitely not treated.

I'd have to agree that lacquered leather would not be replaceable with darkleaf. "because darkleaf cloth remains flexible, it cannot be used to construct rigid items such as shields or metal armors" lacquered armor would completely ruin the point. as in that case, there would be no reason not to make it into metal items, since it is now rigid. and it would exclude lacquered armor for not being supple any more

you can consider that fluff text if you like, we have to base this consensus on something and "although other types of armor made of leather or hide might be possible" leaves it to our judgment.

Its a game balance decision only vaguely related to real life.

Boiled leather is only flexible for a short time until it sets into the shape (you mould the leather around a form). These pieces would then be sewn together to form a suit. Thus, BOILED LEATHER is NOT flexible like tanned, unboiled leather.

The CRB defines regular leather armour as HARD BOILED leather ["Leather: Leather armor is made up of pieces of hard boiled leather carefully sewn together."] Since boiled leather by its very nature is NOT flexible but stiff shaped pieces of leather, the argument that leather lameller could not be made from darkleaf because it is stiff makes no sense.

One could interpret that the Darkleaf improves the max dex bonus of boiled leather by replacing with stiff boiled leather with tough supple leather but by the same argument lamellar could replace the lacquered leather with tough supple leather (lacquering only improves durability against the elements not against weapons).

It is clear that the game designers are making a game balance decision. If the armour is PRIMARILY metal then use mithral/adamantine/fire-forged steel etc, if it is PRIMARILY leather or hide then use darkleaf/eelskin/angelskin etc., if it is stone you are plain out of luck. Darkleaf appears to have be introduced to compensate for the mithral armour trope which cannot/will not be used by many classes.

[Samasboy1]

Umm....lacquered leather IS cured leather, that is then lacquered, cured being a synonym for tanned/preserved.

Whether it is "normal" cured leather is a different question, but I don't see why you shouldn't be able to make leather lamellar from dark leaf.

[Axl]

Thread necromancy: can druids wear darkleaf cloth studded leather armor?

[Java Man]

Nope, still metal studded. Dark leaf leather lamellar would be my suggested substitution.

[Dragon78]

I would love to have a list of armors and materials that are not in Ultimate Equipment. Also what books they appear in would be nice.

[Axl]

Okay. Darkleaf cloth hide shirt would be okay, right? (This is for a multiclass druid-sorcerer to reduce arcane spell failure.)

[Java Man]

Dragon78 wrote:

I would love to have a list of armors and materials that are not in Ultimate Equipment. Also what books they appear in would be nice.

This is available on archives of nethys.

[Taja the Barbarian]

Axl wrote:

Okay. Darkleaf cloth hide shirt would be okay, right? (This is for a multiclass druid-sorcerer to reduce arcane spell failure.)

The classic Mage Armor spell might be a better option: Between that and Barkskin your AC should be decent...

[Pizza Lord]

Best use for Darkleaf Cloth I've found is for making nets. Not alot of special materials can substitute for rope or silk, but I think it does. Makes for a much tougher and more durable net than rope's hardness and hit points for its thickness.

[Azothath]

only if the studs are acorns or nut shells (aka goin nuts with armor) and then you have wood with a lower Hardness than metal which means lower AC and GM territory (so No).

Advice
go with darkleaf leather ($10 +$750(MW))for a non-binding decent armor AC all the time. When adventuring add Mage Armor(arcn), False Life(arcn), Barkskin, Blur(arcn), Ablative Barrier(arcn)...
Add spellstoring(+1) to armor, possibly aquadynamic $3750 and slick $3750.
Dragonhide & Bulette plate don't seem worth it.
Wild (+3) armor quality is not worth the cost, just buy barding.
There are threads on this in the Advice forum.

[Axl]

Thanks for the suggestions.