| toscrawford |
I've building a Fighter (Phalanx Soldier) Ranger (Skirmisher) Hell Knight mutt and have some questions about how feats interact.
1) At 4th level Fighter a Fighter can swap out a Bonus Feat. Let's say my Ranger 3/Fighter 4 decides he wants to drop the Endurance feat that was a Ranger Bonus Feat. "Upon reaching 4th level ... a fighter can choose to learn a new bonus feat in place of a bonus feat he has already learned." RAW makes me think I can drop any bonus feat received in any class, but not a non-bonus feat (which seems like a pain to keep track of).
2) Let's say I don't like my Ranger Combat Style Feat, which does a pretty good imitation of a bonus feat, can my fighter drop one of those? Standard disclaimers apply.
3) Fighter 4/Ranger 7/Hellknight 2: I get fitted for my Hellknight armor, put it on, and promptly lose my Ranger's Combat Style Feats. The only real question here is, is there a loophole I'm missing that doesn't cost me two feats as soon as I put on some fancy armor? Would Mitral Hellknight Plate give my Ranger Combat Style Feats back?
4) Just to confirm, Rangers and Hellknights are not Fighters as far as Feat Prereqs are concerned, so I can't take the Pin Down Feat without reaching 11th level Phalanx Soldier.
This game brings reading comprehension to a whole new level.
Cold Napalm
|
It is pretty heavily implied the bonus feat for the fighter re-training are the fighter bonus feats...so unless your GM is extremely lax, that is pretty much a no go. For PFS...yeah don't even think about it.
Combat style is even MORE of a push...so good luck asking that one.
assuming you can get mithral hellknight armor...yes that would work.
That is correct. Rangers and hell knights do not help for fighter x feat pre-reqs. So no pin down for you.
| toscrawford |
As a Skirmisher I'm planning to take Surprise Shift. It sounds really good, but I'm not clear on how to make the best use of it. What skills/feats/etc. does it stack best with? Assume the same character fighting with a reach weapon plus spiked shield and a focus on bull rush, trip and combat patrol to generate lots of AoO. How does Surprise Shift help? New enough not to fully get exactly what you can jam into a round, old enough to know better.
| toscrawford |
I'm unclear on how weapon sizes work.
Can a first level fighter use a two-handed weapon, like a pole-arm, as a one-handed weapon with a -2 to hit due to it being one size too big for one hand?
Can my fighter use two pole-arms, one in each hand, taking a -2 with each due to size and a further -2 from the two-weapon fighting feat?
Could my fighter wield two quarter-staffs (double) -2 with the two-weapon fighting feat -2, and get four attacks per turn?
Can a medium fighter use a size small pole-arm one-handed, taking the -2 for it being the wrong size?
These penalties seem too low so I'm wondering what I'm missing.
| VRMH |
I'm unclear on how weapon sizes work.
There are two kinds of "weapon size". One is the size of the creature for whom the weapon is meant - the Longsword of a Gnome is a "small longsword", whereas that of an Elf is a "medium longsword".
The other relates to the weapon itself. A Longsword is a "one-handed weapon", while a greatsword is "two-handed" and a Dagger is "light".(Actually there's also the size of the object itself, but that's best ignored here.)
Can a first level fighter use a two-handed weapon, like a pole-arm, as a one-handed weapon with a -2 to hit due to it being one size too big for one hand?
No; with only one hand, the fighter cannot use it at all as a weapon. The -2 penalty only applies to weapons made for another size of creature. He could use a Small Longspear in one hand though.
Can my fighter use two pole-arms, one in each hand, taking a -2 with each due to size and a further -2 from the two-weapon fighting feat?No.
Could my fighter wield two quarter-staffs (double) -2 with the two-weapon fighting feat -2, and get four attacks per turn?No.
Can a medium fighter use a size small pole-arm one-handed, taking the -2 for it being the wrong size?
Yes.
| Nicos |
3) Fighter 4/Ranger 7/Hellknight 2: I get fitted for my Hellknight armor, put it on, and promptly lose my Ranger's Combat Style Feats. The only real question here is, is there a loophole I'm missing that doesn't cost me two feats as soon as I put on some fancy armor? Would Mitral Hellknight Plate give my Ranger Combat Style Feats back?
Correct. Mitrhal do the trick.
4) Just to confirm, Rangers and Hellknights are not Fighters as far as Feat Prereqs are concerned, so I can't take the Pin Down Feat without reaching 11th level Phalanx Soldier.
correct again. No pin down until palanx soldier 11.
| toscrawford |
Thanks. Let me test my understanding.
My two-weapon fighting human fighter could:
1) Wield a tower-shield in one hand, and a small sized falcion (two-handed weapon) in the other hand. Let's say it's a special weapon that he's attached to for some reason and ignore that it isn't all that useful. Wielding it this way would cause a -2 for wrong sized weapon. Is there a penalty for the Tower Shield?
2) My two-weapon human fighter could have a small sized quarter staff in each hand and make 4 attacks. All 4 attacks would have a -6 to hit. -2 for the wrong sized weapon, -4 for the second weapon not being light.
3) My two-weapon human fighter could have a small sized quarter staff in his primary hand and a tiny quarterstaff in his secondary hand and make 4 attacks. The primary attack would be -2 for size, -2 for TWF = -4. The secondary hand would be -4 for size, -2 for TWF = -6.
Why would I do such a thing? If I had enough bonuses to hit and damage, four attacks could work out nicely, however, this is really just a thought experiment, for the time being.
4) If I wanted to two-weapon fight with double weapons, what's the optimized solution?
| mdt |
Actually, you can use a two-handed weapon with one hand, but you're using it as an improvised weapon, which means you don't get any of the weapons enhancement bonuses, none of it's special abilities, and not it's damage.
Which means it's pretty useless, considering you get a -4 penalty for using an improvised weapon, but you can do it.
| toscrawford |
More questions today. A Tower Shield cannot bash.
1) Can a Mithral Tower Shield Bash?
2) Can a Mithral Tower Shield have the Bash special magic feature?
3) Would a Bash from a Spiked Heavy Mithral shield qualify as a light weapon for purposes of two-weapon fighting?
4) Could a character with a Light Mithral Shield use the shield like a Buckler and wield a two-handed weapon? If they could, could they attack with a two-handed sword and do a shield bash in the same turn?
5) If I had a heavy steal shield +1 with the Bash special feature, what would be the impact of adding a spike?
6) Can a two-weapon fighter use Heavy Shield to Bash and call it the primary weapon, then use a rapier or some other light weapon to qualify for the -2/-2 of two-weapon fighting?
7) Can a Phalanx Soldier with a properly sized and legal one-handed reach pole-arm and a Heavy Spiked Shield make a single attack turn one with the pole-arm at no penalty, a single attack turn two with a shield bash at no penalty and two attacks turn three, one with the pole-arm, one a shield bash, with a -4/-4 two-weapon fighting penalty (due to two non-light weapons)? If the third round bash was swapped for an armored spike attack, that would bring the two-weapon penalty back down to -2/-2, right?
8) A Phalanx Soldier attacks with a two-handed pole-arm using one hand. Add the strength bonus as a one-handed attack or a two-handed weapon?
At least I've gotten to the point where I know what I don't know. Your answers really help me put the pieces together in my head as to what's legal, and what's not. Thanks.
| AtomicGamer |
Damn these questions are like distilled 'I desperately want to break the system, can't you let me have a loophole?'
If you two weapon fight, you pick two weapons you have for each attack. Using an undersized double weapon doesn't give you an extra attack, it just increases your options for attack. (you could have two small quarterstaffs, using a head with a frost enchantment in one round, then use the other head with a fire enchantment in the other, but not both, the limit is set by the two weapon fighting rules, not the amount of weapons you can fit on your 'chassis')
Also bear in mind that there is a cumulative -2 penalty for each size category that the weapon is designed for.
So a Human wieleding a two-handed sword made for a halfling could wield it in one hand, but he'd take a -2 penalty. If he used a two handed sword made for pixie in the other, to two weapon fight, he'd take a -4 penalty to that attack.
| Azaelas Fayth |
Double Weapons are actually pretty nice. When you don't try to break the system.
The Two-Weapon Warrior Archetype is awesome for any TWF build. You can either wield a traditional 1H-&-Light or 2 Light Weapons for no penalty, 2 1H Weapons for the standard 1H-&-Light Penalties, or any combo for -1 TWF Penalties.
| mdt |
Double Weapons are actually pretty nice. When you don't try to break the system.
The Two-Weapon Warrior Archetype is awesome for any TWF build. You can either wield a traditional 1H-&-Light or 2 Light Weapons for no penalty, 2 1H Weapons for the standard 1H-&-Light Penalties, or any combo for -1 TWF Penalties.
It's about the only way to do the 'double katana' build that was so popular a few years ago via monkeygrip.
| toscrawford |
Atomicgamer, I'm actually not trying to break the system, more exploring the boundaries as a way of testing my understanding of what is legal. I can't help myself, its just the way I think. I am old enough to know when to take a few steps back from the line as playing a broken character is fun for no one. If I play a sub-optimal character I want it to be because I choose to, not because I don't understand how the rules interact.
| toscrawford |
Back to abuse central. One of the Ranger abilities was to grant a bite attack. With Two Weapon and Greater Trip I can hit someone with my Halberd, bash them with my heavy shield, perform a trip combat maneuver with my teeth? then hit them with my halberd again because being greater tripped provokes an attack of opportunity. I think this is legal but it sounds so silly to trip someone with your teeth.
a fighter with a reach weapon is standing in a 5' wide corridor. In front of him is a human ally. In front of the ally is an Orc, who is most definitely not an ally. The fighter wants to tap the Orc with his lucern hammer reach weapon, but the ally in front is disrupting his shot. What is the penalty in this case?
| Purplefixer |
Double Weapons: A character can fight with both ends of a double weapon as if fighting with two weapons, but he incurs all the normal attack penalties associated with two-weapon combat, just as though the character were wielding a one-handed weapon and a light weapon. The character can also choose to use a double weapon two-handed, attacking with only one end of it. A creature wielding a double weapon in one hand can't use it as a double weapon—only one end of the weapon can be used in any given round.
(Emphasis mine)
My two-weapon fighting human fighter could:
1) Wield a tower-shield in one hand, and a small sized falcion (two-handed weapon) in the other hand. Let's say it's a special weapon that he's attached to for some reason and ignore that it isn't all that useful. Wielding it this way would cause a -2 for wrong sized weapon. Is there a penalty for the Tower Shield?
Yes, -2. Your total penalty is -4. Sadly, he's missing out a great deal by using a tower shield rather than something he could, say, attack with, like a light weapon or a light shield.
2) My two-weapon human fighter could have a small sized quarter staff in each hand and make 4 attacks. All 4 attacks would have a -6 to hit. -2 for the wrong sized weapon, -4 for the second weapon not being light.
If your two-weapon human fighter was 11th level this statement is true. Assuming no strength bonus at all and mundane quarterstaves his attack bonus is +11 for level and -6 for his penalties, causing his attack suite to be +5/+5/+0/-5 before applying relevant weapon training. I quoted the relevant rules passage at the top of this post.
3) My two-weapon human fighter could have a small sized quarter staff in his primary hand and a tiny quarterstaff in his secondary hand and make 4 attacks. The primary attack would be -2 for size, -2 for TWF = -4. The secondary hand would be -4 for size, -2 for TWF = -6.
You are correct here, as long as the above statements hold true. This fighter's attack suite is +7/+5/+2/-3 before applying modifiers for relevant weapon training class feature bonuses.
Why would I do such a thing? If I had enough bonuses to hit and damage, four attacks could work out nicely, however, this is really just a thought experiment, for the time being.4) If I wanted to two-weapon fight with double weapons, what's the optimized solution?
You cannot efficiently fight with two double weapons.
Play a summoner with a human-shaped Eidolon and fight like twins. Double-Weapons are not optimal for two weapon fighting. Instead, consider Two-Weapon Fighting, Rapid Shot, Quick Draw, etc, to use a pure dexterity build for thrown weapons with deadly aim. Throw hatchets or daggers. Throw hatchets -and- daggers.
For truely staggering levels of cheese, take four levels of monk, and then get flurry of shurrikens from the Ninja and throw gratuitous numbers of poisoned shurrikens all striking pressure points to nerf your opponents dexterity to 0 and leave him paralyzed. Use dex-poison to ensure rapid victory.
| Purplefixer |
1) Can a Mithral Tower Shield Bash?
No.
2) Can a Mithral Tower Shield have the Bash special magic feature?
No.
3) Would a Bash from a Spiked Heavy Mithral shield qualify as a light weapon for purposes of two-weapon fighting?
No.
4) Could a character with a Light Mithral Shield use the shield like a Buckler and wield a two-handed weapon? If they could, could they attack with a two-handed sword and do a shield bash in the same turn?
No.
5) If I had a heavy steal shield +1 with the Bash special feature, what would be the impact of adding a spike?
Don't steal heavy shields. According to James Jacobs you can add bashing to a heavy steel shield 'if your GM allows you to'. He has not given an official ruling, but it becomes a 2d6 one handed weapon with a threat range of 20. It is inferior to the greatsword in every way, requiring both a magic armor bonus AND a feat to use, and putting magical weapon properties on it basically bonus-taxes that as well, requiring 8k to be spent for further attack and damage bonuses. I'm playing a Crane-Style fighter build using this attack method with a cestus in the off-hand to reduce penalties. He hits less often than he should and deals less damage than even a classical two-weapon fighter, but he's aggravatingly hard to hit.
6) Can a two-weapon fighter use Heavy Shield to Bash and call it the primary weapon, then use a rapier or some other light weapon to qualify for the -2/-2 of two-weapon fighting?
Except for fact that rapiers are one handed weapons, not light, the ruling has come down on this as 'yes'. You may consider a shield bash your primary weapon, thus making the shield fighting class feature of the Shield Fighter archetype virtually useless.
| Purplefixer |
One of the Ranger abilities was to grant a bite attack. With Two Weapon and Greater Trip I can hit someone with my Halberd, bash them with my heavy shield, perform a trip combat maneuver with my teeth? then hit them with my halberd again because being greater tripped provokes an attack of opportunity. I think this is legal but it sounds so silly to trip someone with your teeth.
Only if it is a small halberd. You cannot wield a shield capable of bashing along with wielding a polearm. Yes, you can use the bite attack to trip, but you're better off using your primary attack with the primary weapon. Even a shield bash can 'trip'. But if you fail by 5 or more you fall down! The official ruling is that ANY weapon can be used to trip, but weapons with the trip special quality have certain advantages, such as being able to drop them when you try to trip with them, and all bonuses and enhancements that apply to attacks with the weapon then apply to combat maneuvers used with that weapon. So if your ranger has weapon focus heavy spiked shield, and the weapon is enchanted as a +2 weapon he gets a +3 to his typical combat maneuver bonus to trip someone with it. The same applies to having an amulet of mighty fists and making the bite attack to trip, or having (MUCH MORE FUND FRIENDLY) body wraps of the mighty strike (iirc) from the Ultimate Equipment Guide. It sounds silly using the bite attack to trip, but you can trip with your -hand-. Just shove the fellow over. Think cinematically and remember that the result is the maneuver, not what you think 'tripping' is. When Thor smashes the floor with Mjolnir and sends an enemy tumbling to the ground, that's a trip attack as well.
A fighter with a reach weapon is standing in a 5' wide corridor. In front of him is a human ally. In front of the ally is an Orc, who is most definitely not an ally. The fighter wants to tap the Orc with his lucern hammer reach weapon, but the ally in front is disrupting his shot. What is the penalty in this case?
The ally provides soft cover and inflicts a -2 penalty to hit. Use the d20PFSRD and have a look at the rules for cover, and attacks with reach weapons.
Veldebrand
|
The ally provides soft cover and inflicts a -2 penalty to hit. Use the d20PFSRD and have a look at the rules for cover, and attacks with reach weapons.
I used to think soft cover was -2 to hit also, but it says in the d20pfsrd:
Soft Cover
Creatures, even your enemies, can provide you with cover against ranged attacks, giving you a +4 bonus to AC. However, such soft cover provides no bonus on Reflex saves, nor does soft cover allow you to make a Stealth check.
I believe the it's "partial cover" that gives the half cover bonus. And that is applied when there is cover, but more than half the creature is visible.
Partial Cover
If a creature has cover, but more than half the creature is visible, its cover bonus is reduced to a +2 to AC and a +1 bonus on Reflex saving throws. This partial cover is subject to the GM's discretion.