So I am thinking of making a Druid (Level 1) for Pathfinder Society Organized Play.
My hangup(s) at the moment are:
1) I really want a druid for the whole WildShape thing, and I want a caster
2) You are level 5 before 1 comes to fruition.
3) That only leaves 7 levels (Just over half of your PFS Career) as the thing you want to be.
So my questions are:
Have you played a Druid in PFS?
How hard was it waiting for half your career before your concept became a reality?
How would you build?
My general idea build wise is:
Class: Druid (Frog Domain)
Faction?? Looking at Andoreans now, mostly that is because they have a good theme, and get a trait that lets my caster use a bow.... open for suggestions on a more thematically appropriate choice.
Race: Human or Aasimar of some flavor (Dex or Con)
Feat: Spell Focus(Conjuration) + Augment Summoning (If Human)
Array:
10 Str (0 pts) 14 Dex (5 pts) 12 Con (2 pts) 10 Int (0 pts) 19 Wis (13 Points) 10 Cha (0 pts)
13 Hp (8 +1 Con, +3 Toad Familiar + 1 Favored Class)
Traits:
Beast of the Society, ???
Skills (4 ranks):
Perception, K. Nature, Fly, ???
This thread is in the wrong forum.
Also sorry for the incorect flag, I misclicked.
Thought Advice was the place for generic questions about characters and what not? Can you direct me to the correct forum?
i think this is the right forum, the PFS forums usually have specific questions about legality, for builds people still come to advice.
I have played a druid in PFS but i should mention i don't mind waiting for my characters to come into fruition. i have a strange build of 3 classes thats sole purpose is to have an improved familiar do things in combat, and get a 30+on all knowledge checks regardless of when he makes them. at level 6 :)
My original concept for my druid was to become an oak tree at 12th level and rage. because it's silly. his starting stats were 19str 14dex 17con 7int 13wis 7cha (choosing to get +2 to str and con instead of extra feat/skill points). he will eventually be 4 levels armored hulk barbarian with the rest in druid.
feats:
1st power attack
3rd improved overrun
5th shaping focus
7th natural spell
9th planar wildshape
11th elephant stomp
as far as factions go i'm not sure what to tell you. none of the factions imho would appeal to an actual nature loving druid, all of the factions are about politics. i chose lantern lodge just because i didn't have a character of that faction. that ended up developing his personality somewhat, since he is a 7int character who starts with 3 languages because of his build (common, tien, druidic) i roleplay him as barely able to speak common, and only speaks normally in character to other characters who speak tien. his story is basically he was a barbarian working on a tien ship that got shipwrecked and was found and taken in by a halfling community who taught him the ways of nature.
that isnt the build youre looking for but some of the wildshape feats might appeal to you. you definitely should get natural spell at 5th level. wild speech would be useful at 7th. even if youre not going to focus on wild shape give planar wild shape a look, it's very good protection at later levels.
not sure where youre getting the familiar from, youre a druid, you get an animal companion, not a familiar. animal companions are much much better than familiars. there is a large list of animals to choose from, i suggest a dinosaur of some type.
i'm not sure where youre going with wild shape, but your physical stats determine what your wild shape stats will be, and yours arent very good with your stat array.
also you may want to really look at the 'beast of the society' trait, it only really helps you for 2 levels (4 and 5), after that you will usually always want to be large for combat or tiny for scouting. it's generally considered a wasted trait. get something like reactionary, it will always help. faith/religion traits are powerful if you can't find a theme oriented trait. lessons of chaldira and defensive strategist are 2 very good traits.
for skills you will need at least a few points in handle animal to train your companion, plus knowledge nature and survival are good since you already get +2 in them for being a druid, and perception is the most used skill in the game, you will definitely want to keep that one maxed. especially if you plan to scout.
your last extra point for being human could be placed in anything, but if you choose to worship irori you can choose 'wisdom of the flesh' trait, which makes any str/dex/con based skill a class skill for you, AND you get to use your wisdom instead of the physical stat for it. so if you chose disable device you would get a very good modifier for it because of your wisdom, and the combo of good perception and disable device will effectively make you a rogue for traps. that will come in very handy for pfs.
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So I am thinking of making a Druid (Level 1) for Pathfinder Society Organized Play.
My hangup(s) at the moment are:
1) I really want a druid for the whole WildShape thing, and I want a caster
2) You are level 5 before 1 comes to fruition.So my questions are:
Have you played a Druid in PFS?
How hard was it waiting for half your career before your concept became a reality?
How would you build?My general idea build wise is:
Class: Druid (Frog Domain)
You get wild shape at L4 so its not that bad. Especially if you apply a bit of GM credit :-)
Particularly for PFS I strongly recommend making a versatile druid. One who can both be effective in combat and can cast spells. A druid can more or less fill any role in the party (some better than others, of course) which is incredibly valuable in PFS. My druid has been the heavy hitter in the party, the spell caster, the healer, the scout, etc. One of the major strengths of a druid is that versatility.
Something like Str and Wis at 16, Con at least 12, the rest to suit the image that you have of your character.
Especially at the levels that PFS plays an Animal Companion is a lot more useful than an extra domain spell.
One thing to possibly consider is a Shaman. Although this slows down your wild shape until L6 you get a partial Wild shape ability at L2. Depending on what you're looking for in wild shaping this may be sufficient to make the character fun for you (it worked for me, at least).
Nature Spell feat would work really well in this. you can caster spells while in your whild shape. and maybe you should look at a different dmain like air or weather and get the elemental body feat so you can become an elemental for your wild shape instead. Get to cast spells and become a elemental/ sounds like a blast to me.
First thank you all for your input. Many things I had not considered have been raised, and I am incorporating several of those ideas below! Thanks!!
Quick notes:
(1) Getting the Familiar from the Frog Domain
(2) I like the Dwarf trait, never being FF would be AMAZINGLY good from my limited experience, however, how to PFS GM's in gereral feel about cheesing off race traits using Adopted? Not sure how I feel about that.
(3) I have a Folio (actually 3) for my toons, and I am not sure whether that reroll would stack with Lessons of Chaldira...?
(4) I like the idea of a dual purpose druid, but it seems you would have to saccrifice a lot of Spell DC in order to become moderately proficient in Combat. How does that trade work in practice? I may mock up a level 6-8 just to test that!
(5) I think for a dual purpose Druid, the Con/Wis version of Aasimar is the clear winner, race wise.
(6) I am leaning at the moment to Silver Crusade, because their general goal is do good, but I am not sure how that stacks with a Druids neutrality... Andorean still looks good to me as well.
============================Test 1========================
Archon-Blooded Aasimar (Lawbringers) Druid 1
Init +3; Senses darkvision; Perception +8
Defense
AC 11, touch 11, flat-footed 10 (+1 Dex) (No Armor yet.)
hp 13 (1d8+2 Con+3 Toad)
Fort +4, Ref +1, Will +6
Resist acid 5, cold 5, electricity 5
Offense
Speed 30 ft.
Spell-Like Abilities Continual Flame (1/day)
I am going to buy an amulet and cast this on a picture of my (inert relationship here) so when I open the amulet the picture lets the amulet work like a torch of sorts, I think..
Spells Prepared (2/day) Entangle (DC 15), Cure Light Wounds, Jump (Domain) (at will) Create Water, Detect Magic, Light
Statistics
Str 16 (5), Dex 12 (2), Con 15 (3), Int 7 (-4), Wis 19 (13), Cha 7 (-4)
Low int/ Cha is why my Druid was able to be led astray to join the PFS in the first place...
Base Atk +0; CMB +3; CMD 14
Feats Spell Focus (Conjuration) (Setting up Augment Summoning)
Traits Desperate Focus, Reactionary (Concentration checks suck when you fail. Since I am now melee capable, I figure concentration is almost mandatory. +init just lets you win faster!)
Skills Knowledge (nature) +4 1 Rank, Perception +8 1 Rank, Survival +10 1 Rank.
Languages Celestial, Common, Druidic
SQ
Toad Familiar+3 to Hit Points
General Familiar Rules You gain the Alertness feat while your familiar is within arm's reach.
Damage Resistance, Acid (5): Aasimar You have the specified Damage Resistance against Acid attacks.
Damage Resistance, Cold (5): Aasimar You have the specified Damage Resistance against Cold attacks.
Damage Resistance, Electricity (5): Aasimar You have the specified Damage Resistance against Electricity attacks.
Darkvision (60 feet): Aasimar You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
I should have added that Weapon wise, I am now stumped. Weapons available: club, dagger, dart, quarterstaff, scimitar, scythe, sickle, shortspear, sling, and spear. They are also proficient with all natural attacks (claw, bite, and so forth) of any form they assume with wild shape (see below).
I am looking at:
Dervish Dance:
Prerequisites: Dexterity 13, Weapon Finesse, Perform (dance) 2 ranks, proficient with scimitar.
Benefit: When wielding a scimitar with one hand, you can use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier on melee attack and damage rolls. You treat the scimitar as a one-handed piercing weapon for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon (such as a duelist’s precise strike ability). The scimitar must be for a creature of your size. You cannot use this feat if you are carrying a weapon or shield in your off hand.
Pro: Helps alleviate the MAD of this Build.(Could go Wis> Dex> Con, and ignore Str! Cons: Takes up 2 feats! Because of this, it delays my Caster efficiency . Also, after level 4, I will be spending a lot of time in Wild Shape (I hope) so I wont be using this much anyhow.
Thoughts?
How can you ignore Str, when you want to be useful while wildshaped?
I'd rather pack a spear for reach and call it a day. I've never had any druid who'd venture into melee with a manufactured weapon. But to each their own.
You're already providing so much versatility/oomph/goodness via spells (druids are full casters!), you're getting Augment Summoning to summon hardier critters, with Natural Spell you'll be able to wildshape and still cast, and wildshaping - with the way you set up your stats above - let's you melee. Let the other PCs contribute, too. *smirks*
On a side note: I can't seem to get your stat array to work under PFS point buy - what am I overlooking?
On another side note: I'd still go human, the extra feat makes it worthwhile (especially since you were commenting on the lateness of your char coming to fruition).
Ruyan.
Hmm, I think I might have mis input the costs above is as follows:
Str 16 (5), Dex 12 (2), Con 15 (3), Int 7 (-4), Wis 19 (13), Cha 7 (-4), which was incorrect. Str cost 10 not 5. 10 +2+3+13-4-4=20. Or a simpler layout:
Str:16 Base (Cost: 10) [Running Total 10] 16 Total
Dex: 12 Base (Cost 2) [Running Total 12] 12 Total
Con: 13 Base (Cost 3) [Running Total 15] 15 Total
Int: 7 Base (Cost -4) [Running Total 11] 7 Total
Wis: 17 Base (Cost 13) [Running Total 24] 19 Total
Cha: 7 (Base Cost -4) [[Running Total 20] 7 Total
Weapons Shortspear, Spear, and Club (or in character terms: Pointy Stick, Big Pointy Stick, and Heavy Stick)
Armor: Hide
Gear: MW backpack, winter blanket, explorer's outfit, flint and steel, belt pouch, wood focus, spell component pouch, silk rope, waterskin, 3 days rations (plan on relying on the Survival skill, not Handi-Snaks Inc.)
Item I want, but can't find: Plain Amulet of decent size with Picture of ___ Inside.
Reason: Use SLA (Continual Flame) on Picture in Amulet (CL3 Torch on Demand by opening amulet!)
Dropping int and cha to 7 while trying to keep wis, str and con up, seems to me to be stretching things a bit.
You might consider dropping wisdom. You don't need a wisdom of 17 at first level and by the time you need even a wisdom of 14 or 16 you can get items and use your level boosts to push it up.
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(4) I like the idea of a dual purpose druid, but it seems you would have to saccrifice a lot of Spell DC in order to become moderately proficient in Combat. How does that trade work in practice? I may mock up a level 6-8 just to test that!
It has worked out very well in practice (my druid is now L8). She has adventured with wildly differing groups and her versatility has been very, very useful. In general, I have to somewhat underplay her in order not to dominate the game too much (Summon Natures Ally is SO useful :-)).
Don`t get me wrong. She is NOT as good in any role as she would be if she specialized. So, in any particular scenario it would usually have been slightly better if she`d specialized. Specialized differently for different scenarios, of course. But she is VERY useful in EVERY scenario regardless of party composition. And that is, in PFS, nearly priceless.
She is only down a little in spell casting DC. That probably translates to less than 1 opponent per scenario saving when they otherwise would not have. I can live with that. In most of her spell load outs she concentrates on spells where saving is no huge deal
She has enough wisdom to get bonus spells at L1-4 (magic item).
Her money gets somewhat diluted since she has to cover so many bases. But that mostly translates to a +1 item instead of a +2
Her biggest downside is that she can be a little complicated to play. I`ve done lots of advance preparation to help with that. I`ve got something like 8 different spell choices I can take depending on scenario and adventuring group. And I`ve got a lot of scrolls, potions, etc.
So how about
16 (10) str
14 (5) dex
14 (5) con
7 (-4) int
15 (7) wis
7 (-4) cha
Before mods? Kinda hate to be at 19 points though..
So how about
16 (10) str
14 (5) dex
14 (5) con
7 (-4) int
15 (7) wis
7 (-4) chaBefore mods? Kinda hate to be at 19 points though..
Raise your int to 9 (+3), and drop your wis to 14 (-2). You aren't going for a spell-monster build, anyway, and 3 skill points/level is better than 2. You'll be able to get a headband to raise your wis before 9th level, I'm sure.
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For what its worth, my druid started with
15, 14, 14, 10, 14, 8
Human bump went into Wis. Level bumps went into Str and Wis (in that order)
Bought Wis and Str boost items fairly quickly
I love skills too much to dump Int.
It was a little weaker than I liked until 4th level (when the stat bump came) but it was livable. At early levels the Animal Companion rocks sufficiently to cover a multitude of problems :). And Augmented Summoning from Level 1 also gives lots of options in the early game.
The Dex is arguably too high but its fairly cheap and darned useful when wild shaping into a combat form.
Ok, so now I am at:
16 Str 10
12 Dex 2
14 Con 5
10 Int 0
15 Wis 7
7 Cha -4
Before Mods.
16 Str
12 Dex
16 Con
10 Int
17 Wis
7 Cha
After Mods.
Wis at 4, Str at 1
Better?
Back onto the Feats/Traits!
I am thinking for Feats: (1) Spell Focus, (Conjuration), (3) Augment Summoning (5) Natural Spell (7) Superior Summons, (9) ??
Trait wise, I am still leaning Desperate Focus (sounds better than Focused Mind) and Reactionary
Gear wise, I think MWK Backpack, Pathfinder's Kit, Club, Short Spear, Long Spear, and Hide Armor.
Not sure about the MWK Pack v. Normal pack, I think I have str to spare...
Also, can a Druid use a Buckler?
druids can use any non-metal, non-tower shield
take a look at planar wild shape, it provides pretty good protection at higher levels. so with that, and you casting summoning spells from in the air as an air elemental, being in the air and having dr 5(or 10)/evil would be nice as a level 9 feat. you would easily have spare skill points for the 5 ranks of knowledge:planes
So here are the two versions as they currently sit!
Archon-Blooded Aasimar (Lawbringers) Druid 1
NG Medium Outsider (native)
Init +3; Senses darkvision; Perception +7
Defense
AC 15, touch 11, flat-footed 14 (+4 armor, +1 Dex)
hp 14 (1d8+3) [+3 Toad]
Fort +5, Ref +1, Will +5
Resist acid 5, cold 5, electricity 5
Offense
Speed 20 ft.
Melee Club +3 (1d6+3/x2) and
. . Shortspear +3 (1d6+3/x2) and
. . Spear +3 (1d8+4/x3)
Spell-Like Abilities Continual Flame (1/day)
Druid Spells Prepared (CL 1):
1 (2/day) Entangle (DC 14), Jump, Cure Light Wounds
0 (at will) Create Water, Detect Magic, Guidance
Statistics
Str 16, Dex 12, Con 16, Int 10, Wis 17, Cha 7
Base Atk +0; CMB +3; CMD 14
Feats Spell Focus (Conjuration)
Traits Desperate Focus, Reactionary
Skills Acrobatics -2 (-6 jump), Climb +0, Escape Artist -2, Fly -2, Intimidate +0, Knowledge (nature) +6, Linguistics +1, Perception +7, Ride -2, Sense Motive +5, Spellcraft +4, Stealth -2, Survival +9, Swim +0
Languages Celestial, Common, Druidic
SQ +3 to hit points, empathic link with familiar, nature bond abilities (frog), spontaneous casting, sticky strike (6/day), wild empathy
Other Gear Hide armor, Club, Shortspear, Spear, Backpack (empty), Charcoal stick, Flint and steel, Holly and mistletoe, Journal, Signal whistle, Silk rope, 107 GP, 7 SP
TRACKED RESOURCES
Club - 0/1
Continual Flame (1/day) (Sp) - 0/1
Shortspear - 0/1
Spear - 0/1
Sticky Strike (6/day) (Su) - 0/6
Human (Shoanti) Druid 1
NG Medium Humanoid (human)
Init +3; Senses Perception +7
Defense
AC 15, touch 11, flat-footed 14 (+4 armor, +1 Dex)
hp 16 (1d8+5)
Fort +4, Ref +1, Will +5
Offense
Speed 20 ft.
Melee Club +3 (1d6+3/x2) and
. . Shortspear +3 (1d6+3/x2) and
. . Spear +3 (1d8+4/x3)
Druid Spells Prepared (CL 1):
1 (2/day) Entangle (DC 14), Jump, Cure Light Wounds
0 (at will) Create Water, Detect Magic, Guidance
Statistics
Str 16, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 17, Cha 7
Base Atk +0; CMB +3; CMD 14
Feats Spell Focus (Conjuration), Toughness +3
Traits Desperate Focus, Reactionary
Skills Acrobatics -2 (-6 jump), Climb +0, Escape Artist -2, Fly -2, Handle Animal +2, Knowledge (nature) +6, Linguistics +1, Perception +7, Ride -2, Spellcraft +4, Stealth -2, Survival +9, Swim +0
Languages Common, Druidic, Shoanti
SQ +3 to hit points, empathic link with familiar, nature bond abilities (frog), spontaneous casting, sticky strike (6/day), wild empathy
Other Gear Hide armor, Club, Shortspear, Spear, Backpack (empty), Charcoal stick, Flint and steel, Holly and mistletoe, Journal, Signal whistle, Silk rope, 107 GP, 7 SP
TRACKED RESOURCES
Club - 0/1
Shortspear - 0/1
Spear - 0/1
Sticky Strike (6/day) (Su) - 0/6
At this point, just go with the one that feels best for your character, as you see it. Both are good.
I'd ditch the shortspear and go with a scimitar for close combat, and buy a dagger. You can afford it.
If you get swallowed by some monster, a dagger is a light weapon you can use to carve your way out. It's also good as a tool for cutting ropes and such. You can even throw it, if you don't have anything better to do on your turn.
Dagger it is! Any thoughts on Buckler?
[]bBuckler:[/b] This small metal shield is worn strapped to your forearm. You can use a bow or crossbow without penalty while carrying it. You can also use your shield arm to wield a weapon (whether you are using an off-hand weapon or using your off hand to help wield a two-handed weapon), but you take a –1 penalty on attack rolls while doing so. This penalty stacks with those that may apply for fighting with your off hand and for fighting with two weapons. In any case, if you use a weapon in your off hand, you lose the buckler's AC bonus until your next turn. You can cast a spell with somatic components using your shield arm, but you lose the buckler's AC bonus until your next turn. You can't make a shield bash with a buckler.
There is no specific Wooden Buckler, but I don't see why one couldn't be made of wood. there are wooden versions of all the other shields...
yea but pfs doesn't allow it unless it's already in a book, you may have to go with a light wooden shield instead
Ruyan.
well there you go :) although not sure why buckler is better than light shield. thought the ruling was either one gave you a free hand to cast spells. but that might be me remembering 3.5 ruling not pathfinder, it has been awhile since i had a spellcaster use a shield.
In PF both - buckler and light shield - do that. Buckler lets you cary something else in that hand, even another weapon. Specific ruling see here.
Ruyan.