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So my buddy and I have been going to our local PFS group for a little while now, and then the unthinkable happened and he got one shot in a session. Part of the issue was that he and I were carrying the weight of the entire table, and he a lowish level cleric and I an also lowish level wizard couldn't fully make up for other members of our table.
Well I went to another few sessions, found a nice group of people, but my best friend stopped coming and I've found it a lot less amusing without him. He's agreed to come back and I decided to test the waters a little playing a level one alchemist and basically rolling the session I was in.
But my table was full of weird, ill conceived, characters. Ranging from a almost no stat above twelve wizard/monk, an oddly done druid/barb, and a ninja who... did nothing?
Most of the people we loved playing with are in the 4-5 bracket +
So here is my challenge. I normally play support characters, God Wizards to be exact. But I want to roll a new level one for when my buddy joins. I just want the ability to completely trivialize the encounter if I so wish. I probably wont, I just want to be able to turn around and make sure that he has fun regardless of other peoples... inability... to play. (Wizard color-sprayed the barb, cleric healed the big bad, ninja did nothing... so much GAH)
So what am I looking at? Gunslinger appeals to me, I just don't really build em. Summoner... was interesting until they killed synthesist.
Is it even possible?
(Imagine character concepts at both level 1 or 2, it depends on how much I want to cash in certain sheets)
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I like the curse/debuff/control/team high five class Idea.
...Witch. Evil Eye. Sleep. Misfortune. Spells.
Another option if you would like to have melee ability as well as the wonderful hexes is Hexcrafter Magus. Though since you will need melee stats you DC's might suffer a bit.
So its more of a question of wanting to do the Hexes and control spells very well or wanting to be strong in in more general way.
Convince the GM to let you play an Incubus / Succubus. (Ab)Use Suggestion. A lot.
That is not possible in PFS, which follows it's own set of rules with no exceptions.
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But my table was full of weird, ill conceived, characters. Ranging from a almost no stat above twelve wizard/monk, an oddly done druid/barb, and a ninja who... did nothing?
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So basically, you are playing with a group of people who are not hardcore optimizers, and you want them all to change their play-style to suit you by spoiling one of their game sessions?
Reading between the lines, that's one way or looking at what's going on here. Thing is, if they are having fun playing their way, I suggest you roll with it. If they aren't having fun playing this way, try making constructive suggestions on how to improve their character design. Making everyone else at the table cry is a bad way of teaching a lesson and can get you booted out of the group with the reputation of being a munchkin, no matter how well-intentioned you are.
I don't think he is trying to make people cry. He is trying to keep the table (and him, and his friend alive). PFS can be deadly.
I might go with an alchemist. This might sound odd, but I would make a dwarf... either beastmorph alchemist/armored hulk barbarian multiclass for close combat or mindchemist bomber if you want battlefield control. An alchemist can be a terror on the battlefield, except for their crappy will saves. Dwarf helps offset that with wisdom and magic resistance. Alchemist magic offsets their slow speed. I'm sure you could swing a 23-24 str, high AC, high saves, expeditious retreating (attacking?) alchemist barbarian by 2nd or third level.
For battlefield control, mindchemist helps get the saves up for your bombs. Dex for to hit is nice, but you only need a moderate dex to hit reliably with touch attacks.
Funny that you eliminate Bard due to face time concerns. A lot of people tend to think Bards are the ideal Pathfinder Society class.
Yet another vote for the Witch. There are some arenas in which the Witch is simply better than the Wizard. Low-level lethality is among them.
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How about this for a suggestion. You want to get your buddy back in the game?
How about investigating the Team Work feats?
Build your characters so they work together as a cohesive whole. I once saw a devastating combination where a fighter and rogue I think, were built with team work feats....I remember one of them had a big spiked club thingie, with a d10 dmg and x4 crit and the other character had a hi range crit weapon, I think a scimitar...rapier, and every time the guy with the rapier got a crit, he had some feat which allowed him to pass his confirmed crit onto a team mate namely the fellow with the d10 x4 crit weapon . the results were impressive. It was a midnight madness slot at a convention....so i don't remember the names of everything.....but i do remember being impressed with a pair of characters built with team work feats.
Just and idea.....and it would give you and your buddy a reason to play together.
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How about this for a suggestion. You want to get your buddy back in the game?
How about investigating the Team Work feats?
If Teamwork feats sound like too much of a gamble (since they need two owners to work), consider playing a Cavalier or Inquisitor, since both classes have the ability to collect the benefits of Teamwork feats even when no-one else has them.
That way, if one of you can't make it to the game, the other isn't hindered.
Cavalier is handy if the other Player is wanting a Feat Starved build.
I don't think he is trying to make people cry.He kind of wrote it in topic title that he is.
I agree with Dabbler on this. Making optimized character just in spite of others seems slightly unhealthy thing to do. People will just tend to like you less.
Reading is hard :(
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If your buddy was one-shot, then he's kind of in the category of "people who don't build good characters", right?
Having a number of PFS characters (levels 13, 12, 11, 7, 4, and 2), I've learned a few general principles for happy PFS play; the basic issue is that you never know who you're sitting down to play with (with exceptions, obviously, but in con and game day play, this is a general rule), so you can never completely rely on them. Bringing a broken character to the table isn't the answer, because those are almost always one-trick (or few-trick) ponies; they usually work well at low levels, but start to falter at higher levels (I see this with things like optimized grapplers, characters built on a heavy sneak attack or enforcer type schtick, casters focused very intensively on specialized blasting (like pyromancer-type builds), etc).
What you need to deal with the random tables of PFS is:
- independent survivability. What if no one at the table can heal you? My characters have a minimum of 14 con (regardless of class) and the toughness feat at 1st level; as soon as you have two PA, you should get a wand of infernal healing or CLW, as well (with the understanding that it might not be usable, depending on the table composition). Example: My 13th level sorcerer has 119 hit points before buffs (false life and a coup d' grace with a vampiric touch can raise that to 170+), can tap a defensive dimension door, and has contingencies to avoid grapples - independent survivability!
- ability to succeed at faction missions. *Mostly* this means the ability to make diplomacy checks. Being a total charisma dump (many PFS characters, especially "optimized" ones) isn't really a good idea. Why is this important? Because your later access to good items is dependent on prestige.
- the "I can't believe you don't have that" tool kit. Things like weapon blanches, potions of fly and lesser restoration, wands of CLW and endure elements, and all the other things which can compensate for having ineffective casters at the table.
That's about it. "Making the table cry", in addition to having limited long-time use in PFS (I'd hate to go through the retirement arc dependent on a fighter who's built only to trip, or a sorcerer who casts fire spells at +3 or +4 caster level... but has no other kinds of spells); it's also bad "game citizenship".
It's worth remembering that we play these games for fun, not "to win". If you prefer the latter, it's worth checking out card and board games instead. PFS *does* have a lot of "ineffective" players, because it attracts a lot of new, first-time players to the game: I meet many PFS players for whom this is their first time playing RPGs - and this is a GOOD thing. The best long-term strategy is to invite these players in, gently suggest things, answer when asked, and so on; eventually they'll learn the game, learn tactics, teamwork, and so on.
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David Haller has wonderful advice.
Instead of making it to where you can one-shot anything if you have an ineffective party. Why don't you make a build that can cover any missing niche in the party?
Say a Switch Hitter that can Heal and serve as a Face and such. Something like a Paladin, Cleric, Bard, etc.
While I have never played in PFS one of the best things you can do is to build on team mechanics. A few years back we had a large group and about 5 of us all wanted to be elves or at least part elven. We had me as an archer/wizard, an elven scout, an elven rouge/cleric, an elven ranger with a cooshee and a tallfellow halfling druid. There was really nothing we could not handle since we worked well together to the chagrin of the other group that got mad that we took care of our own.
David has some very solid points. It does sound like there are some pretty bad players in your FLGS, though, and this definitely impacts survivability (the wizard could have found a different Color Spray cone and the Barbarian/Druid thing could have easily declared PvP if he was in the target area to prevent getting hit by it if it was a bad situation).
That said, a pair of competent players at any table can carry most of the low-level scenarios that I've played. My last session on my not-really-combat-optimized paladin had me carrying the session along with my not-very-experienced buddy playing a fighter. Also at the table were a cleric playing his first game of Pathfinder (previous 4E player), a first session Sorceror (never found out what bloodline because he spent virtually all of his actions using Daze and Acid Splash), and a semi-optimized Tiefling Elemental Fire Wizard who only used Flame Jet during combat from what I saw (he was a distant second in damage/kills). I was on the high end of WBL as it was my last 1-2 scenario, which meant that I practically soloed 3 of the encounters. My highest stat is CHA at 16. This is a diplomacer character, mind you. That said, nobody had to invoke PvP for anything, everybody survived, and everybody had a good time.
A Witch/Inquisitor or Witch/Summoner combo on the table could easily give you everything you need to run tables together without depending on your fellow players being solid.
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So I understand the main idea, I also was being a little facetious with the cry concept. My concern is mostly being able to get us through encounters with not only badly built characters, but players whose judgement is somewhat questionable, I understand being a newbie and building a character badly. I do turn around and discuss things with them during game play, especially with the wizards I run into as I know that class the best. But it isn't fun for anyone when people are messing up, in the last few low level society games I've been in we ended over an hour after others, tensions high and even the gm just irritated with everyone.
Mr. Haller, he got crit by a huge Earth Elemental, wasn't much we could do. It killed 3 party members that night. As the cleric he was trying to keep people up, and I the wizard was the only one breaking the creatures DR.
If I were putting this less sarcastically I'd say I wanted to be able to save the party when need be.
So I understand the main idea, I also was being a little facetious with the cry concept.
Understood, I tend to read things at face value because nuance isn't always easy to get across and is easy to misunderstand.
My concern is mostly being able to get us through encounters with not only badly built characters, but players whose judgement is somewhat questionable, I understand being a newbie and building a character badly. I do turn around and discuss things with them during game play, especially with the wizards I run into as I know that class the best. But it isn't fun for anyone when people are messing up, in the last few low level society games I've been in we ended over an hour after others, tensions high and even the gm just irritated with everyone.
I understand now, your problem is that you have not just weak characters, but characters actively hampering one another. There is no golden solution, I'm afraid, except for them to play and learn. One suggestion I would give is to make themed characters with one or two other players that you trust that can form a nexus of a party and work together.
When in situations where you can split away from the rest of the party do some teamwork together and show them how it is done. Don;t try and make overly powerful characters, either - teamwork can go a long way.
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2paz8?No-armor-No-problem
Make people cry with a Goblin who has 32 AC by level 6, of which most of it is dodge or dex bonus... No armor, no magical items, the only buff spells being Rage and Mutagen. Oh, you also have Evasion, and at level 7 you get Uncanny Dodge. Level 1 you start with 17 AC, +3 when fighting defensively. You also have +14 to stealth checks at level 1. Have fun!
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The real trick s to survive the first few sessions. This can be deadly in PFS with the randomness of the parties.
A possible fix for this is having one of you being a high AC character at the start (AC 17+ is very good) and the other person using him as a meat shield.
One other thing, If you are a level one, always make sure the table is playing down. They're supposed to but sometimes it doesn't happen. Once you reach higher levels you start having the choice to play up or down. Do NOT play up if the table is not balanced. So sessions, playing up is a sure way for party deaths.
This. all the way. I just lost my first PFS character because the one 'high level' (level 5) begged the level 3 and my level 2 to agree to a level 4-5 subtier ( the one i will now fondly call 'night at the museum'). Being one-shot by a mob without a chance to react kind of kills the magic.
So from now on, only level-appropriate missions!
If you build a Paladin to do 2h, it will do very well even with a relatively small selection of feats. My paladin currently has zero damage feats and a sub-par combat build, but does relatively well. If I actually designed the character to be in combat, he'd be a monster. I'm currently running a reach weapon on him. Only 1 combat has ever presented a problem, and my latest feat selection rectifies it (Nimble Moves).
Power Attack. And maybe pick up a few Archery Feats to allow you to Switch Hit.
Paladin and Magus are the best Melee with Ranger and Gunslinger/Spellslinger being the better ranged. At least when it comes to non-spell ranged attacks. Then I say a Magic Missile focused Wizard with Staff-Like Wands and around 10 Wands of Magic Missile becomes the best ranged attacker. A literal Fire and Forget Caster.
I think staff-like wands is level 11. The OP was asking for concepts at level 1 and 2.
I'd agree with witch, druid, summoner.
I was expanding on Feral's statement.
You and your buddy roll ratmen so you can flank with each other, then stack teamworks feats.