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I was thinking about this with a character concept I was playing with with the kitsume boon.
Basically, I was thinking of making him Shoanti and having him present himself as a 'Coyote' from Arcadia. My suspicion is that some GM's would welcome me with open arms and others (not the type common where I live) would try to undermine it, insisting I had some fictional mechanical advantage suggesting one dog face humanoid has to be somehow 'different'.
I have done this before with an Oriental Paladin (Back when a glaive could be a Naginata, i.e. before ultamite combat) and I've seen others do simular things. I was annoyed that the Samurai and Ninja had too much 'automatic' Oriental flavor thrown in and wish there were archtypes that replaced the Wakazashi with a Rapier. James Bond is great example of a modern 'Ninja'. To me a Sai should be a sickle and a Katana a broadsword and both should cut as sweetly.
My question to you is where do you draw the line.
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in society? i think there's a zero tolerance faq for "reskinning".
can you play a kitsune born and raised in shoanti tribe that THOUGHT she was a coyote from arcadia? sure. But game terms, you're a kitsune / fox. and you can't reskin her appearance, beyond using things like a hat of disguise to always look like a coyote or wild shape into a coyote. ( silver foxes notwithstanding. thats not reskinning thats cosmetic like humans with purple hair. )
FAQ link here
edit: silver fox. mmmh. anderson cooper kitsune...
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in society? i think there's a zero tolerance faq for "reskinning".
can you play a kitsune born and raised in shoanti tribe that THOUGHT she was a coyote from arcadia? sure. But game terms, you're a kitsune / fox. and you can't reskin her appearance, beyond using things like a hat of disguise to always look like a coyote or wild shape into a coyote. ( silver foxes notwithstanding. thats not reskinning thats cosmetic like humans with purple hair. )FAQ link here
edit: silver fox. mmmh. anderson cooper kitsune...
Thus, a small cat could be a cheetah or leopard, as suggested, as well as a lynx, bobcat, puma, or other similar animal; it could not, however, be "re-skinned" to be a giant hairless swamp rat or a differently-statted wolf
First of all, that only applies to items and animal companions. On the other hand the lynx is a puma is a cheetah language could be read to suggest a fox is a coyote is a jackal (and yes I know a Coyote is bigger, but not much, they both live nearby and I've had the chance to observe them up close).
I once read those same rules and asked Mike Brock whether my Camel could be a Llama, and he said yes, so I think he'd back me. And as for appearance, you could easily argue all those dog faced people look alike, so I wouldn't need a hat of disguise.
On the other hand, on the THOUGHT thing, if most GMs interpreted it as you do (they don't, at least in my locality) it would mean the GM would declare my character deluded. I wouldn't wish to play a deluded character.
And this is the core of what I wanted to discuss. Where do people draw the line and what is interpretation. If you make a 'western' character who happens to have the 'Ninja' class, that is not cheating and that is one thing. Is this another. What is another?
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my problem with calling a kitsune a coyote is what happens when other players or npcs or enemies see you? do they make a knowledge (local) check and now that you're a coyote from arcadia? or would that be a knowledge (planes) check? I know the FAQ pertains to animal companions, but thats a whole riding-pig fiasco. but it stems from the same cause: if i said i was riding a dragon instead of a dog, things would interact differently with it. its not just a surface change.
beyond playing a deluded character, reskinning your race to actually be a coyote rather than a fox, changes for your locality, what exists in the game world. While you're the ones exploring and creating stories in this game world, there's a certain amount of what does/doesn't exist and that's spread by the publishers. For a home game, thats great, because the GM can adjudicate things. But when your'e going to have table variation on how coyote vs fox is handled or encountered, i think its best to err on the side of what is, and not reskin.
edit: changing a horse to a llama doesn't suddenly populate the game world with something that wasn't there before. You don't have to explain to every gm or player what a llama is. they know because you're just changing something that exists. its great that mike brock is behind llamas. but adding something to the game world ? or using an existing race to make a variant of something that doesn't exist yet? its not in the purview of the players to do that in a society game, thats to the writers and the developers.
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I should of shut up and played the character, nobody would have objected, and life would have gone on. Instead, I thought it would be an interesting debate. Oh well, that's what I get for failing my wisdon check.
my problem with calling a kitsune a coyote is what happens when other players or npcs or enemies see you? do they make a knowledge (local) check and now that you're a coyote from arcadia? or would that be a knowledge (planes) check?
What happens is they see a Kitsume, but just like when they see see Seelah or Valeros and register human, only with a different skin/fur tone and eye color.
I know the FAQ pertains to animal companions, but thats a whole riding-pig fiasco. but it stems from the same cause: if i said i was riding a dragon instead of a dog, things would interact differently with it. its not just a surface change.
First, I disagree with the comparision to the riding pig situation. It's more like saying the Puma headed cat person is legal but the cheetah headed cat person is not (never mind the cat person is not legal, think if they were). All I'm changing is the cultural baggage like I would with Tian or a Taldan.
beyond playing a deluded character, reskinning your race to actually be a coyote rather than a fox, changes for your locality, what exists in the game world. While you're the ones exploring and creating stories in this game world, there's a certain amount of what does/doesn't exist and that's spread by the publishers.
Two answers to that.
First, I think it unlikely that Arcadia will be developed anytime soon. I base this on the fact that fantasy RP gaming is just flooded with Native American based stuff, unlike that super hard to find Oriental based stuff.[/irony] Bluntly, I don't see Arcadia being developed anytime soon and unless James Jacobs comes on and says 'but wait!' I think I'm okay and will be okay for the forseeable future.
Secondly, I think if I had based it firmly in the inner sea I can't see people arguing it. If I had come up with a 'Kitsume' Cleric or Inqisitor from Osirian, with short black hair, longish snout and ear that stuck up and used this for a portrait no one would call it or even suggest it was re-skinning.
edit: changing a horse to a llama doesn't suddenly populate the game world with something that wasn't there before.
Paizo has strongly hinted that Arcadia is Native American based, so I'm playing along with the fluff.
You don't have to explain to every gm or player what a llama is.
I think they know what a Coyote is. They probably also come across something about Coyote's being common in NA legends. If nothing else, they've heard of Wile E Coyote (who is modeled on those legends) or played old world of darkness Werewolf.
So unless I'm dealing with someone totally illiterate and ignorant (in which case Llama might be tricky also) I don't think it's a problem.
they know because you're just changing something that exists. its great that mike brock is behind llamas. but adding something to the game world ? or using an existing race to make a variant of something that doesn't exist yet? its not in the purview of the players to do that in a society game, thats to the writers and the developers.
Actually, Llamas I don't think exist in Golarian yet. So if I make llama riding Cavalier I've 'added' to the world. So by your logic every time we make a character w/ a background we are adding to the game world.' For example, my summoner is from a ranch in Northern Andoran near the Five Kings Mountains to whom they sell most of their beef. Her father built the place up with his own two hands.
Now I know the place won't show up in anything by Paizo (until I'm writing for them at least), but it is the kind of place that plausibly could exist on Golorian. So could my Oracle who met the love of her life during a night at the Opera (Zyphus!).
I do think that this is closer to the edges but it is still working within the game world. It's just using the fuzzy lines that are not well defined. You may not like it, but it is still within the lines they have defined.
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play it how ya want it. you asked where the line is. Thats where I perceive the line to be drawn. You wanna have a llama cavalier, or a coyote kitsune, do it. quit quibbling when another GM doesn't think its permissible and wait for the campaign staff or a VL to come down on your character.
i wanted to be a small aasmiar. hey that's just reskinning it too isn't it? I should be able to play that by your logic. oh wait, the campaign rules say we can't. ::shrugs::
Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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As one of your GMs (on occasion) I think you shouldn't sweat it. If, as Don suggests, a GM says, "You're a kitsune, not a coyote," then you've been called out and need to deal with it (ie., play by the rules and be a kitsune).
On the other hand, coyotes have a lot of the same folk lore attached to them by Native Americans that the Japanese attach to foxes (crafty, shifty, careful, not-quite-wolves but definitely predators to be wary of). So, I don't see why you would have a problem presenting yourself as a kitsune (coyote-style) from Arcadia. The Shoanti part I don't get, as that culture is from Varisia.
What I'm curious about is what kind of rules advantage you'd be trying to pull out. If the answer is, "None," then why would there be a problem?
Meaning, of course, that you need to tell your GMs, "My race is Kitsune. My origin is Arcadia, and I identify more closely with the coyote than with the fox." Then, when he points the spell at you that says All Fox-like Beings Known As Kitsune Affected By This Spell Die, then you had better suck it up and die instead of saying, "But I'm a coyote." (-;
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play it how ya want it. you asked where the line is. Thats where I perceive the line to be drawn. You wanna have a llama cavalier, or a coyote kitsune, do it. quit quibbling when another GM doesn't think its permissible and wait for the campaign staff or a VL to come down on your character.
As for the campaign staff, I doubt it will happen. I know my VL's and VC. I could say more, but I won't.
i wanted to be a small aasmiar. hey that's just reskinning it too isn't it? I should be able to play that by your logic. oh wait, the campaign rules say we can't. ::shrugs::
No, that is specifically against the rules rather than reskinning. It's like comparing apples and oranges as you should well know. I said I wanted to debate, so I debated. I thought we were having a polite conversation...until now. My mistake.
Do what you want, but I suggest not arguing with your GM if they say a kitsune is not a coyote.
Trust me, won't argue (over this). Will start 'interesting' debate thread when I fail my wisdom check and argue there, but not with GM.
What I'm curious about is what kind of rules advantage you'd be trying to pull out. If the answer is, "None," then why would there be a problem?
Meaning, of course, that you need to tell your GMs, "My race is Kitsune. My origin is Arcadia, and I identify more closely with the coyote than with the fox." Then, when he points the spell at you that says All Fox-like Beings Known As Kitsune Affected By This Spell Die, then you had better suck it up and die instead of saying, "But I'm a coyote." (-;
What he said. No mechanical advantage.
Have a nice day,
Kerney
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In-game, I would imagine that no character or NPC would be able to tell the difference, since I'm pretty sure that there are very few people walking around in PFS scenarios who have been to Arcadia and come back, having hand the chance to see a coyote.
Therefore just describe your character as looking like a coyote and when discussing the concept say that tehe character is inspired by the mythological figure of Coyote. I would imagine that most players would find that really cool. When you run across the (hopefully) rare DM who makes a big stink about it, the best you can really do is identify them so that you can avoid their table in the future.
can you play a kitsune born and raised in shoanti tribe that THOUGHT she was a coyote from arcadia? sure. But game terms, you're a kitsune / fox. and you can't reskin her appearance, beyond using things like a hat of disguise to always look like a coyote or wild shape into a coyote. ( silver foxes notwithstanding. thats not reskinning thats cosmetic like humans with purple hair. )
This "you just think you are" is incredibly condescending bullshit. One of the things a DM never should do is say "your character concept is wrong, I am going to unilaterally change it for you". Just let the guy play a freaking coyote. He already has a kitsune boon that he is using. I probably wouldn't walk refuse to play with a DM who I saw doing this sort of thing but I would certainly judge them poorly for having done it.
Secondly, I think if I had based it firmly in the inner sea I can't see people arguing it. If I had come up with a 'Kitsume' Cleric or Inqisitor from Osirian, with short black hair, longish snout and ear that stuck up and used this for a portrait no one would call it or even suggest it was re-skinning.
Unfortunately, the sort of people who would give you trouble for a coytoe kitsune would also give you the same hard time about that kind of thing even though it is a cool and honestly not terribly outre thing to do.
Am I being a little bit too strident, maybe. But the thing that PFS needs to fix most is the culture of absurd legalism that we have around here and that you suddenly see coming out of the woodwork is these thread where we get people delivering pronouncements on what color tengu can be and what type of fox-like creature kitsune can be.
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This "you just think you are" is incredibly condescending b&#%$%~!. One of the things a DM never should do is say "your character concept is wrong, I am going to unilaterally change it for you".
I think its a reasonable (if not optimal) compromise between "No you can't do that at all" and "everyone at the table has to accept MY reality".
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I guess the problem is that you want to build this character in an organized play version of the world. The rules there have to be more strictly applied because everyone has to be on a relatively level playing field. The ghost of organized play past could show where there have been regions where herds of players have been equipped with +5 holy avengers at 8th level. (Granted I took a bit of dramatic license there, but there have been occurrences to that effect.) If you give people an inch then they may take a mile. Systems, theories or ideals are often just perfect until humans muck it up. It's why posters here may come across as overly careful or rules focused for you.
I am not saying that you would take it that far of course. I think it's just a matter of letting the DM ahead of time know what is going on. "Hello Sir or Madam. I will be playing a Coyote from Arcadia, but you may know the actual base race as a kitsune. Now if there are any spells that only affect kitsune or perhaps a crazy wizard that wants to film Kitsunes Gone Wild then that would involve my character. I just want to make sure we all have a smooth and fun gaming experience."
I think that would solve the problems 99% of the time. I also believe it's better than, "You don't own me. You don't own me. I do what I want. I do what I want. If you try to stop my fun then you're an ignorant jerk". Everyone is happy in the end.
play it how ya want it. you asked where the line is. Thats where I perceive the line to be drawn. You wanna have a llama cavalier, or a coyote kitsune, do it. quit quibbling when another GM doesn't think its permissible and wait for the campaign staff or a VL to come down on your character.As for the campaign staff, I doubt it will happen. I know my VL's and VC. I could say more, but I won't.
i wanted to be a small aasmiar. hey that's just reskinning it too isn't it? I should be able to play that by your logic. oh wait, the campaign rules say we can't. ::shrugs::No, that is specifically against the rules rather than reskinning. It's like comparing apples and oranges as you should well know. I said I wanted to debate, so I debated. I thought we were having a polite conversation...until now. My mistake.
Do what you want, but I suggest not arguing with your GM if they say a kitsune is not a coyote.Trust me, won't argue (over this). Will start 'interesting' debate thread when I fail my wisdom check and argue there, but not with GM.
What I'm curious about is what kind of rules advantage you'd be trying to pull out. If the answer is, "None," then why would there be a problem?
Meaning, of course, that you need to tell your GMs, "My race is Kitsune. My origin is Arcadia, and I identify more closely with the coyote than with the fox." Then, when he points the spell at you that says All Fox-like Beings Known As Kitsune Affected By This Spell Die, then you had better suck it up and die instead of saying, "But I'm a coyote." (-;
What he said. No mechanical advantage.
Have a nice day,
Kerney
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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As someone with a reputation for being strict, I'd like to note that a Shoanti coyote-kin kitsune wouldn't bother me.
But a kitsune coming from Ustalav or Irrisen, claiming to be a wolf shape-changer, would. I wouldn't allow that at my table.
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This "you just think you are" is incredibly condescending b%&&#+$&. One of the things a DM never should do is say "your character concept is wrong, I am going to unilaterally change it for you".
This is a digression. Saint Caleth, there are character concepts that, in a PFS environment, are not allowed. Drow, for one. If a player sits down and introduces his jet-black-skinned white-haired elf as a drow paladin, I presume you would want me to nod and continue on, accepting his PC as an honest-to-goodness drow paladin.
I wouldn't agree with that.
At that point, I feel some responsibility to the PFS campaign to present the game world accurately, at least in its broad strokes. (It's been my experience that the cool parts and quirks of the campaign setting are one of the things that attract players. Including all the other players at the table, who want to play in Golarion.)
So, I can say, "You can't play that otherwise-perfectly-legal elvish paladin at my table. Go on, scoot!" or I can explain that there are no good-guy drow, surface drow are extremely rare villains... and that the character concept belongs somewhere else. The suggestion of "you can't be a drow, but you can claim to be a drow" is the best accommodations I can offer.
At this point in our previous conversations on the matter, you've felt the need to protest that I'm a no-good anti-fun jerk. Go ahead.
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Unless I got the thumbs up from Mike or another High Up, I would most certainly turn this down at the table. Would I allow it in a non-PFS game? Absolutely.
The question is available resources. Arcadia has few details as of yet. As a player you would really need to be able to bring a print out of this race to show a GM. This way they could get an idea on the personality and culture.
Now if the top dogs said "Absolutely - It's it would be just like the role Kitsune fill in other parts of the world" that is one thing. But really, without a proper print out, I would not allow this at my PFS table.
It's not that it is a bad idea, it's a fantastic concept. I for one, love it. But until we see more canon documentation and approval that such a race would be in existence, flavorful, and appropriate for the setting - I'd have to say no.
We can not loose sight that while we try to focus on what is fun for all, and while playing a different or reskinned race doesn't hurt anyone else fun. The rules and restrictions on what races we can play are there for a reason. They make boon rewards more special. They make the 'common core races' remain relevant and appealing. And they assure we will see a particular amount of a particular flavor of race in the game.
This is of course, only my two nickles worth.
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Unless I got the thumbs up from Mike or another High Up, I would most certainly turn this down at the table. Would I allow it in a non-PFS game? Absolutely.
The question is available resources. Arcadia has few details as of yet. As a player you would really need to be able to bring a print out of this race to show a GM. This way they could get an idea on the personality and culture.
Now if the top dogs said "Absolutely - It's it would be just like the role Kitsune fill in other parts of the world" that is one thing. But really, without a proper print out, I would not allow this at my PFS table.
It's not that it is a bad idea, it's a fantastic concept. I for one, love it. But until we see more canon documentation and approval that such a race would be in existence, flavorful, and appropriate for the setting - I'd have to say no.
We can not loose sight that while we try to focus on what is fun for all, and while playing a different or reskinned race doesn't hurt anyone else fun. The rules and restrictions on what races we can play are there for a reason. They make boon rewards more special. They make the 'common core races' remain relevant and appealing. And they assure we will see a particular amount of a particular flavor of race in the game.
This is of course, only my two nickles worth.
This.
And we don't know what mechanical issues might arise by such a re-skin. Currently? None. Potential for some? Sure.
I love the creativity. But unfortunately, sometimes in organized play, we have to be willing to be creative within the box provided us. Thinking outside the box can happen, it just has to be within a certain framework of parameters.
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Unless I got the thumbs up from Mike or another High Up, I would most certainly turn this down at the table. Would I allow it in a non-PFS game? Absolutely.
The question is available resources. Arcadia has few details as of yet. As a player you would really need to be able to bring a print out of this race to show a GM. This way they could get an idea on the personality and culture.This is an argument that can be easily be turned on its head, as I will illustrate momentarilly. However, playing with virgin territory that is highly unlikely to be developed seems safe. But note that if I made a human Arcadian ranger or barbarian who took scalps, I don't think I'd have that many problems.
Now if the top dogs said "Absolutely - It's it would be just like the role Kitsune fill in other parts of the world" that is one thing. But really, without a proper print out, I would not allow this at my PFS table.What if I bring the advanced race guide print out for kitsume, point out that the 'oriental' race in western clothing? What if I bring in the Osirian dog faced kitsume cleric instead?
It's not that it is a bad idea, it's a fantastic concept. I for one, love it.Thanks.
But until we see more canon documentation and approval that such a race would be in existence, flavorful, and appropriate for the setting - I'd have to say no.Let me turn that arguement on its head.
My first PFS character was from Minkai. This was back in the days before UC and when Adventerer's Armory specifically suggested a katana and broadsword were one in the same. But my knowledge of things Japanese filled in the gaps. I did it because my knowledge of Golorian was weak at the time.
I used the forgiener concept to not screw up my Golorian Fu.We can not loose sight that while we try to focus on what is fun for all, and while playing a different or reskinned race doesn't hurt anyone else fun. The rules and restrictions on what races we can play are there for a reason. They make boon rewards more special. They make the 'common core races' remain relevant and appealing. And they assure we will see a particular amount of a particular flavor of race in the game.
This is of course, only my two nickles worth.
As Drogon pointed out, I don't think I'd have any problem in my local enviroment with the concept. But you gave me exactly what I was looking for, a thoughtful, non condesending counter arguement. I don't see where I'm breaking any rules, and I'm certainly not mechanically reskinning, but I see where some might feel uncomfortable. It basically comes down to whether you see 'coyote guy' as another human or, an elf from Tian, rather than an illegal (and mechanically different) drow.
That is why this is an interesting discussion.
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Thanks for your response. I need to get my kit together for work, but I'll keep an eye on this thread on my phone for sure. Very interesting.
Mostly the issue I would have with it is not a mechanical issue at all. Maybe there is simply more documentation on Arcadia that I have seen - because the concept seems to invent a race. What if this race does not exist in Golarian. What if the High Ups have a different vision for the region - or have a different creature/spirit/monster type to fill the niche.
As Andrew said in his above post. I am a firm believer in creativity and expression and all that jazz. But I think we need to write our stories with the ink and quill given to us. Just as I am sure that in the years to come we can expect to see some interesting stuff from Arcadia - I am sure that there are endless and unexplored character concepts that can be done with a Kitsune with the current printed and explored Cannon.
As mentioned - the difference here isn't that you are playing another Human from a different part of the world. It is that you are creating a new race and role for the world - with out (and I may be wrong - I could just not see it) the cannon documentation to justify it.
I know any opinion that lends to stifle creativity can be seen as bad. And I hope you don't think that I am doing that. This is a wonderful idea. I personally am very interested in the land of Arcadia and seeing what comes from there. So thank you for understanding my hesitation.
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I am a firm believer in creativity and expression and all that jazz.
oh sure, he takes it lightly and agrees with the same point i was trying to make. =P
I thought we were having a polite conversation...until now. My mistake.
I read into you getting snippy with me first mister:
First of all, that only applies to items and animal companions. On the other hand the lynx is a puma is a cheetah language could be read to suggest a fox is a coyote is a jackal (and yes I know a Coyote is bigger, but not much, they both live nearby and I've had the chance to observe them up close).
I once read those same rules and asked Mike Brock whether my Camel could be a Llama, and he said yes, so I think he'd back me. And as for appearance, you could easily argue all those dog faced people look alike, so I wouldn't need a hat of disguise.
then you proceeded to take my viewpoints and twist them. =P
I think i'm a fairly liberal gm at the table. In a home game, Coyotes would be great. But in PFS, I feel its more about using whats out there. or coming up with creative ways to play what you want.I want to have a gnome with a giant space hampster. So i've got a summoner, with a qudrupedal eidolon. guess what it looks like. mechanically its an outsider.
To me, reskinning even in good measure, can lead to uncertain reactions from players/gms/rules. I may not be able to express that as eloquently as everyone else with a keyboard.
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There's a reason why reskinning rules exist. If they didn't exist, people could make anything.
They could make a "pilot" (maybe a summoner with some weird eidolon) and call them self "Captain Kirk" running around shooting "lasers" (perhaps ray spells) at people.
Is this mechanically against the rules? Absolutely not.
Is this completely outside of the campaign setting? Yes, it absolutely is. It's not something that should exist in this setting.
You have a kitsune boon. You are a kitsune. You look like a kitsune unless you're disguising yourself as something else. It's really as simple as that. Saying you are "Coyote-folk" is simply untrue, because you are a kitsune, which is "Fox-folk."
In the description of kitsune, you can have "more exotic coloration." You could say that your tribe of kitsune has some distant relationship to coyotes, and hence have coloring as such. Your tribe then refers to themselves as Coyotes as part of a tradition or something. This I would have no problem with. But you still would obviously be a kitsune to anyone who saw you and knew what you were.
That all being said, in a home game I would have zero problems with this concept at all, and actually kind of like it. (Edit: And I would have the discretion to do so, and allow things as I pleased) But PFS is PFS.
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 32
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People need to realize that there is a continuum of reskinning. Your armor is painted white? Fine. Your sword has the symbol of your faction on the hilt? Not a problem. Your fireball glows green instead of red? That's not a big change. If it neither breaks the game's world nor affects mechanics, then I don't see the problem.
These examples of stormtroopers, space hamsters and other similar things are really attacking straw men. I don't think anybody is actually arguing for that. Even the ill-famed bacongate incident had a mechanical underpinning due to the reskin affecting the scenario that was being ran AND the fact that the reskin appeared similar to a different in-game object entirely.
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Way off topic... This has been bugging me for awhile now...
I am not a Judge, I am not running a tournament.... I am a Game Master... The Guide calls me a Game Master not a Judge...
I understand where you guys are coming from when you say that we are judges and mike is the Game Master, but you are using the incorrect terms, and at the same time it feels like to me every time you do so you are diminishing what we do as game masters...
I know I am not going to change the use of this, but I would love it if I Did... ;)
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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Way off topic... This has been bugging me for awhile now...
I am not a Judge, I am not running a tournament.... I am a Game Master... The Guide calls me a Game Master not a Judge...
I understand where you guys are coming from when you say that we are judges and mike is the Game Master, but you are using the incorrect terms, and at the same time it feels like to me every time you do so you are diminishing what we do as game masters...
I know I am not going to change the use of this, but I would love it if I Did... ;)
Are you judging me?
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 32
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Way off topic... This has been bugging me for awhile now...
I am not a Judge, I am not running a tournament.... I am a Game Master... The Guide calls me a Game Master not a Judge...
I understand where you guys are coming from when you say that we are judges and mike is the Game Master, but you are using the incorrect terms, and at the same time it feels like to me every time you do so you are diminishing what we do as game masters...
I know I am not going to change the use of this, but I would love it if I Did... ;)
The irony of it is that judges have to make judgment calls on what *sounds* right all the time. Judges often have to figure out the intent of rules and apply the intent instead of an absurd result from RAW. Calling GMs judges, to me, implies greater power to look into intent, not less.
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Are you judging me?Way off topic... This has been bugging me for awhile now...
I am not a Judge, I am not running a tournament.... I am a Game Master... The Guide calls me a Game Master not a Judge...
I understand where you guys are coming from when you say that we are judges and mike is the Game Master, but you are using the incorrect terms, and at the same time it feels like to me every time you do so you are diminishing what we do as game masters...
I know I am not going to change the use of this, but I would love it if I Did... ;)
All the time... Get your shit together!!!
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I do want to go ahead and say: I love the concept. In terms of finding inspiration, see if you can dig up some of the Nuwisha (Werecoyote) stuff from White Wolf's older versions of Werewolf. I'm already having images of an Arcadian Coyote-kin Gunslinger.
That said...
What a lot of these conversations on re-skinning seem into devolve into is "X group says they're fine with it" and "Y group says they are not", with OP defending their decision against group Y and citing group X (along with local GMs who are OK with it).
What's confusing to me is what the goal of these threads is (besides getting input/opinions). It's great that you have local GMs & VOs that like this concept and are happy to role-play it at their tables. They know and trust you, I imagine. But GMs outside of your regular play circuit or at cons don't know you. If you re-skin something, any given GM has the right to say "Mechanically, you are still going to be treated just like any other Kitsune from the Dragon Empires" (or insert any other comparison here).
Showing a GM a thread on the board with a list of people who agree with their re-skin choices doesn't trump said table variation (unless it is a campaign staff or FAQ/developer ruling). That's kind of the risk you take here. If this invalidates/makes illegal any of your mechanical choices for that game session, that sucks, but it's within their right. I'd recommend not making any feat, trait, class, etc. choices that rely on you being any of the things you've re-skinned as or not being any of the things you've re-skinned.
TL;DR Version: There will be table variation and that is within a GM's rights. A thread on the boards, short of a campaign staff ruling, doesn't change this. So why are we arguing about this?
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This is how far i think you can push it.
-You can be a grey colored kitsune (because even the species "red" fox comes in that color, sometimes even in the same litter as red red foxes)
-You can be from arcadia. To the best of my knowledge, there is no PFS restrictions on your geographical area of origin. There are colonies from Cheliax, andor, and a few other nations there already.
-You can play as a wisdom bringing trickster (because there's no restrictions on how you play your character, and as mentioned above thats thematic for kitsune as well)
-You can wear the native american themed getup of your choice (because there's no real restrictions on clothing style, and the materials are readily available)
-You can even name the character Coyote (because you get to pick your name)
These are all details about your character, and you get to insert your character into the world world.
What I think crosses the line is when you try to plunk down a whole species of NPC's into the world, because as a PC thats not something you get to do.