Does a troll simulacrum regenerate?

[Jarazix]

Or for that mater a simulacrum of any regenerating creature. I assume heal spells do not work. But this is a different story.

[David Haller]

No, because regeneration is healing:

Regeneration (Ex) A creature with this ability is difficult to kill. Creatures with regeneration heal damage at a fixed rate, as with fast healing, but they cannot die as long as their regeneration is still functioning (although creatures with regeneration still fall unconscious when their hit points are below 0).

Simulacrum specifies a specific process for "repairing" a simulacrum and gives no other options or exceptions (including other kinds of "repair" spells).

[Jarazix]

But now damage that does not stop the regen (fire acid ) seems like more of a subdal type to regenerating creatures. They heal everything quickly except those types. I don;t think its as cut and dry as that.

Of course it may be, looking for more opinions

[HaraldKlak]

I would say yes.

Consider the Adamantine Golem. Although golems does not normally heal, the adamantine golem has Fast Healing.

The same should be the case of the Troll Simulacrum.

However, this does not change the fact, that it is destroyed when it reaches 0 hp or less (as per simulacrum rules).

[The Black Bard]

"A creature must have a Constitution score to have the regeneration ability." Last line of Regeneration entry under Universal Monster Abilities.

Simulacra are constructs. Constructs do not have constitution scores.

Simulacra can not have regeneration. Fast healing, yes, but somehow having regeneration converted into fast healing (they are somewhat similar, but certainly not the same thing) is outside the text and scope of the Simulacra spell.

**Edited Addendum**

Upon second check, nowhere in Simulacra does it says what the creature is, beyond a duplicate. I find it personally silly that a creature made in equal parts illusion magic and ice and snow is anything other than a construct, but the base text of the spell implies the simulacra is the same type as the creature copied. (Which opens it up to a host of bizzare things, like command undead on a ghoul simulacra, charm person on your own, etc.)

It seems far more reasonable to me that the simulacra is a construct, as that would give a reason for the final sentence regarding repairing its hit points (as every other creature type can be healed by positive/negative energy) and the preceding one regarding destruction at 0hp. However, this is not explicitly stated in the spell. Likewise, the inability to heal via normal means is not stated.

So, there are two options. Rules as Written, a simulacra is the same type as its original, can be repaired in addition to being healed via normal means, and can have regeneration if the original creature had it.

Or, rules as (in my opinion) intended, in which the simulacra is a construct, can only be repaired via the stated means, and, as a result of not having a Con score, is unable to possess the regeneration ability.

[7heprofessor]

Just for easy reference purposes:

"SIMULACRUM
School illusion (shadow); Level sorcerer/wizard 7
Casting Time 12 hours
Components V, S, M (ice sculpture of the target plus powdered rubies worth 500 gp per HD of the simulacrum)
Range 0 ft.
Effect one duplicate creature
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance no
Simulacrum creates an illusory duplicate of any creature. The duplicate creature is partially real and formed from ice or snow. It appears to be the same as the original, but it has only half of the real creature's levels or HD (and the appropriate hit points, feats, skill ranks, and special abilities for a creature of that level or HD). You can't create a simulacrum of a creature whose HD or levels exceed twice your caster level. You must make a Disguise check when you cast the spell to determine how good the likeness is. A creature familiar with the original might detect the ruse with a successful Perception check (opposed by the caster's Disguise check) or a DC 20 Sense Motive check.

At all times, the simulacrum remains under your absolute command. No special telepathic link exists, so command must be exercised in some other manner. A simulacrum has no ability to become more powerful. It cannot increase its level or abilities. If reduced to 0 hit points or otherwise destroyed, it reverts to snow and melts instantly into nothingness. A complex process requiring at least 24 hours, 100 gp per hit point, and a fully equipped magical laboratory can repair damage to a simulacrum."

Now, nowhere in there does it say a simulacrum cannot heal hit point damage. All it states is that there is an alternative method of repairing a simulacrum that requires a lab and a bunch of cash. It says it gets the special abilities of the creature and Regeneration is a special ability, so it gets it. It is a pretty straightforward spell, in my opinion.

Either way...just my 2 cp

[Jarazix]

Granted this proves nothing as adventures have inconsistencies... but there are Paizo adventures with simulacrum that do not have the type construct. For instance the false Delvahines in Rise of the Runelords have the outsider type and a constitution score. I think they are less construct and more illusion. They have the spell Vampiric Touch for instance.

All this thought is for an adventure I am making for the holidays. The Island of Misfit Simulacrum

[7heprofessor]

I'm not 100% certain that it ever has a Type at all as it doesn't say they get one. Assuming they do get a Type and Subtype, Simulacrum only ever have the construct type if it is a simulacrum of a construct. If you are a human and make a simulacrum of yourself, than it has the humanoid type. If you are a human and you make a simulacrum of an Iron Golem, than it has the construct type.

I personally do not believe that specific NPCs from random adventures have any bearing on the core rules.

Good luck with your adventure!

Either way...just my 2 cp

[Bwang]

There was a 3.0 or 3.5 article or 3pp that allowed for additional spells creating alternate 'sims'. I never saw it but heard of it. There is no reason a GM can not rule that other forms are allowed.

I'm stuck with a ruling that the 'Type and Subtype' are by the nature of the simulacrum spell itself...it being an Illusion, that is.

[Klarkash-Ton]

Seems reasonable that a Simulacrum of a Troll has Regeneration.

The Construct argument seems flawed as the spell Simulacrum creates the thing not a tome or the process to create a construct.

If you captured a wizard's familiar and made a simulacrum of it (with a disguise check) - could it masquerade as the mage's familiar and share spells etc?
This might be a good way to have a low hitpoint "backup" or frontline disposable familiar that just cost's GPs.

[Keiger]

Simulacrum's creature type is whatever you copy, this also includes it's ability scores, alignment etc. Fasthealing and regeneration do not function specifically because they HEAL the simulacrum which has special notation on ways to fix/heal it. For additional information, JJ said some stuff here: Simulacrum Top16 FAQ.

[James Risner]

Link busted Keiger

[Archaeik]

fixed

(google found it readily - for some reason referencing the first post in a thread breaks the forums? edit: no, took me awhile to notice but there was a missing colon in his link)

[Icyshadow]

Should this be given an FAQ flag?

[Diego Rossi]

2012 thread.

And the simulacrum spell is silent about regeneration. As construct can have regeneration or fast heal I would say that it work for a simulacrum.

[alexd1976]

We've always had it copy the original creature in type and abilities... but the line about repairing damage sort of implies that natural healing doesn't occur (though this isn't stated).

My table allows it to heal if it has fast heal or regen, otherwise you pay to fix it.

[Bandw2]

only if the GM wants it to.

also VILE NECROMANCER I WILL HUNT YOU DOWN!

[Joesi]

Regarding the creature type of a simulacrum, Greater Alchemical Simulacrum mentions that its simulacrums are creatures rather than supernatural effects for some reason.

Why would it bother making this distinction, I've wondered? It seems like it shouldn't impact anything in any way.

Perhaps because regular Alchemical Simularum VERY STRONGLY implies (but doesn't CLEARLY state) that it's a permanent effect rather than one with a duration. Mentioning that it's a creature is probably their way of saying it's permanent. Pretty dumb though since summons are creatures too are they not? The fact that it's on Greater Alchemical Simulacrum's description is probably just because it was copy-pasted, and shouldn't have actually been there aside from being consistent.

[James Risner]

Joesi wrote:

Why would it bother making this distinction

I'm pretty sure it is saying "The created simulacrum is a creature, not a supernatural effect." as a way to stop someone from saying "but this is an active su that I can muck with some how."

[the Lorax]

Its always a fun question to ask,

"Can a simulacrum do ___________?"

The spell is pretty vague on exactly WHAT you get when you cast the spell (how does that Bane weapon work on the Simulacrum?)

Or the Mad Lib,version:

"Can a simulacrum (a biological function)?"

[Guardianlord]

the Lorax wrote:

Its always a fun question to ask,

"Can a simulacrum do ___________?"

The spell is pretty vague on exactly WHAT you get when you cast the spell (how does that Bane weapon work on the Simulacrum?)

Or the Mad Lib,version:

"Can a simulacrum (a biological function)?"

Well, the Simulacrum is simply a partially real version of the creature, not a construct. So if the original creature can (Biological Function), then so MUST the Simulacrum. And Bane works on creature types, the Simulacrum is at least partially that type, so Bane on!

[the Lorax]

Yep, leads to a nice 1950s horror movie.
"My father was a teenage simulacrum"

[Cevah]

Per JJ's FAQ, As for monsters that create spawn, I would rule that "create spawn" would fall under the aegis of "getting more powerful," something that a simulacrum can't actually do.

This means your father was lying.

/cevah