OK, I'm starting my RotRL camgaign on Sunday and I have a few questions about if my plans/party/etc. will cause a problem. As DMs that have run this before, I humbly ask your advice!
The Party:
I gave them 25pts to make their characters. We have a Drow Gunslinger, a Goblin Alchemist, a Tefling Witch and a Oread Monk. Now, I'm not asking about RP problems (I see a lot of those already), more balance. I gave them the extra points because, well, look at them! Not a even a Cleric among them! Personally, I love a challenge and I hope they do too.
The Plan:
I'm going to do no xp and level them when I think is good (I have a whole chart) and I'm thinking of throwing in an extra adventure that takes place in Varisia. So, in during Burnt Offerings, after the attack and before the glassworks, I'm running Murder's Mark. My question is: Will this extra magic items/money cause me havok later down the line? Has anyone else done this? How did it go?
Thanks for all the help!
No i don't think that a few more magic items at this level will cause problems.
Now about the races.....
well there is not a real problem with the drow because there is nobody in the AP that knows about drows (assuming second darkness hasn't happened yet then shalelu shouldn't know about them) so it's just a weirder than the rest elf, there is the usual problems with the tieflings but since the town sees many adventures most people won't kos a tiefling, the oread might now be talked by the majority of NPCs, and now the goblin... well i don't think that there is any way the guards would let him in Sandpoint for any reason and after the very first encounter of the AP then they would very much (and righteously) want to skin him alive, salt him and drag him through the town. Seriously tell the goblin player to change his race.
The biggest problem of the group isn't the lack of a full divine caster (this becomes a serious issue with games at 10+ IMO) and with the right patron the witch can cover quite a few of cleric's staples, the real problems with this group is the lack of a melee martial and the shortage of spellcasters.
Oh and the gunslinger will wreak havoc in your game at 3rd book and later, seriously in this AP (if you don't want to start changing a load of encounters) i think that the gunslinger should be banned.
@Dryder, I'm using Hero Points as well, I'm hoping that helps with whole "dying" thing. :P
@leo, Will a Gunslinger break both versions of the AP or just the older one? It's been my understanding that the newer anniversary edition shouldn't be a problem. Am I wrong? Have you run the newer one and will it make a difference?
Thanks for the input guys!
|
It's a whopping great myth that you need a Cleric, it's just not true. You have a Witch and an Alchemist between them they can solve just about any healing or affliction that you care to name. Wands of CLW are your friend.
Leo is absolutely correct about the Goblin. Shalelu would just put an arrow in his head. A Goblin PC would work in Skull and Shackles, Serpent's Skull or Legacy of Fire but this is entirely the wrong campaign for it. In fact it is absolutly the worst character choice you could come up with.
25 point buy? A lot of nonsense is said about various point buys. Honestly it isn't an issue. 25 point buy should be fine.
Gunslingers are a tricky class to play but they are not overpowered. At high levels they never miss but their short range makes up for it. A decent archer or 2H fighter can pump out equal or higher damage.
I have to disagree with leo about the Drow. Drow is another poor choice. In Golarion lore a non evil Drow is the rarest of the rare. It would be a miracle if a good or neutral Drow wasn't exterminated in childhood and an Evil one has no reason to leave the darklands. Should the nigh impossible happen and he managed to escape he would be hunted to extermination by an entire Elven secret society. Said secret society wouldn't care if he was good or had achieved great things, they would just slit hs throat and leave him to rot. I'd recommend anything else.
|
While you seem to care for them greatly, adding them additional things like going 25 pts buy (altho it's quite possible to go with), extra skill points (no critics here) and handpicked bunch of rare races (this I usually don't like from personal preference point), you might be completely reducing the challenge of RotRL.
RotRL is quite a killer, but my 20 pts buy 4 man party is doing heck of a job so far, WITHOUT CLERIC. I am proud of them.
I suggest only to let them start with few common races. Humans are 80-85% present in Varisia, but this is my personal preference for players. Later on they can pick some other races if their character end in grim fate.
Goblin and Drow would be shot on sight in my campaign. It doesn't matter if they are good or bad. I recommend to kick [Evil] races out.
You might also hit your adventure after goblin attack on glassworks. Goblins are easy to kill. It might kill the mood otherwise. Or you could simply award smaller xp and gold from your adventure to keep it safe.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Drow can work - but you are going to need to have a decent backstory - and make them good aligned.
See nobodyshome's game journal for a drow that made me rethink using them as a race.
IMO though I'd make them take the alternate racial trait to remove the darkvision and get normal low-light vision along with a campaign trait like adopted which gives them a reason for being on the surface (again see nobodyshome's journal for a great story there).
I will agree on the goblin - it's almost impossible to use a race that is the 'big evil' - drow wouldn't work in second darkness - goblins don't work in RotRL.
|
A Drow could work. There is a Half Drow in my campaign. It works fine, even more so after certain magic items were found in the second part. The Half Drow takes steps to hide her identity.
I have to agree about the Goblin. That one may be far more difficult in RotR.
Bottom line, it is your campaign. You can mold Golarion to fit whatever style you choose. I have always seen the publisher's details more as guidelines whether it is Golarion, Forgotten Realms, World of Greyhawk, or whatever.
Drow can work - but you are going to need to have a decent backstory - and make them good aligned.
See nobodyshome's game journal for a drow that made me rethink using them as a race.
IMO though I'd make them take the alternate racial trait to remove the darkvision and get normal low-light vision along with a campaign trait like adopted which gives them a reason for being on the surface (again see nobodyshome's journal for a great story there).
I will agree on the goblin - it's almost impossible to use a race that is the 'big evil' - drow wouldn't work in second darkness - goblins don't work in RotRL.
You're making me blush! But it was the drow's player that came up with the story; I just fleshed it out to fit into my worldview.
Here's the link to her starting point.
But as I've pointed out in another thread, I allowed a (modified) drow, for gosh' sake, but even I draw the line at a goblin. Absolutely not in RotRL.
...Not a even a Cleric among them!...
Just going to point this out first:
Witches can make VERY good cleric substitutes when it comes to keeping a team of adventurers on their feet, and they don't even need to put too much effort into it (seriously, healing hex alone can go a long way if the group plays it smart). The average witch is a decent healer, and a decent offensive or supporting caster too. (Cleric = helpful, cleric =/= necessary.)
More immediately concerning is the goblin. The drow can probably get away with being a drow as long as you're not too hard on him, mostly because drow never really get up to anything bad in RotRl. The goblin player on the other hand is going to need some VERY good excuses during Burnt Offerings to keep the townspeople from going the reasonable route and lynching him.
Nobody likes the poor Goblin huh? I'm inclined to think a hero's a hero, not matter how small. Or green. The point is, while I see there might be some racial tension, I think of folks of Sandpoint as good people that would look beyond one's skin and the things others of his race do and accept him. After all, if a goblin helped fend off an attack force, well, he just might be OK in my book. (You gotta read all that like it's in the old west) :P
HOWEVER, the Role Playing aspect I have handled, it's the mechanics I'm worried about. If you guys think no cleric is OK, then I won't force the issue with them. Gunslinger isn't too out of hand, got it. Game is Sunday, I'll let you know how it goes.
Oh, and yes, both the Drow and the Goblin took adopted.
|
I wrote this in another thread, concerning a goblin PC:
The goblin could be one that was hatched by Brodert Quink, who found it at the Junk Yard or the Old Light, sick and hurt - a small goblin might made him feel sorry for the creature, so Brodert took him to his house and the Sandpoint citizens came to kind of like it.
Or, the goblin could be a helping Hand of father Zantus.
Or, the goblin ventured below the Old Light (no one knows this) and found a Thassilonian artefact, which made him more intelligent and social (an artefact tied to the seven virtues, possibly bravery, wisdom and righteousness). He loves what he has become, and the player needs to take care of that artefact, or else, he will become a usual goblin again...
After all, the players at the table should have fun, more so, if they are about to play a whole AP.
I have to disagree with leo about the Drow. Drow is another poor choice. In Golarion lore a non evil Drow is the rarest of the rare. It would be a miracle if a good or neutral Drow wasn't exterminated in childhood and an Evil one has no reason to leave the darklands. Should the nigh impossible happen and he managed to escape he would be hunted to extermination by an entire Elven secret society. Said secret society wouldn't care if he was good or had achieved great things, they would just slit hs throat and leave him to rot. I'd recommend anything else.
I agree with what you said, i just said that nearly nobody knows about drows and therefore you wouldn't have the same KOS problem that you would with the goblin.
@leo, Will a Gunslinger break both versions of the AP or just the older one? It's been my understanding that the newer anniversary edition shouldn't be a problem. Am I wrong? Have you run the newer one and will it make a difference?
I am not sure, i have played the first 3 books with the old edition and halfway through the 4th i changed to the new one. I still think that a full fledged gunslinger could ruin your game.
Dryder might be on to something, the only way a goblin PC might work in RotRL is if it was raised in Sandpoint and everyone knows about him.
Nobody likes the poor Goblin huh? I'm inclined to think a hero's a hero, not matter how small. Or green. The point is, while I see there might be some racial tension, I think of folks of Sandpoint as good people that would look beyond one's skin and the things others of his race do and accept him. After all, if a goblin helped fend off an attack force, well, he just might be OK in my book. (You gotta read all that like it's in the old west) :P
I'm not so sure about the bolded part. Remember, according to Word of James Jacobs, the close-minded superstitions of Sandpoint's populace made Nualia Tobyn feel like a freak, and played a major contributing role in her eventual 'Start of Darkness'. 'All' the visible differences between Nualia and her neighbours were her purple eyes and silver hair, and people were expecting her to donate locks of that hair for folk-remedies that would cure a baby's croup, or to cure warts with a touch of her hand, because 'everybody knows' that aasimar have all manner of strange and wonderful powers.
Goblins? 'Everybody knows' goblins are stupid little psychotic freaks. They think writing steals words out of your head, they set fire to things just to watch them burn, they sing disturbingly catchy songs about eating babies... and then they follow through on them.
If this particular goblin was indeed adopted by a local, for whatever reason, I'd actually half-expect them to have been driven out of town by bullies and wind up at Nualia's side, helping her plan to torch the whole town. If he did stick it out, he'd have to be one seriously obstinate lttle SOB, and his behaviour would probably be more human than 'goblin'.
If this particular goblin was indeed adopted by a local, for whatever reason, I'd actually half-expect them to have been driven out of town by bullies and wind up at Nualia's side, helping her plan to torch the whole town. If he did stick it out, he'd have to be one seriously obstinate lttle SOB, and his behaviour would probably be more human than 'goblin'.
The bold emphasis above is really what it boils down to for me. Any goblin raised in Sandpoint (and somehow accepted amongst the populace there--some residents of the town are pretty bigoted regarding goblins [eg. Daviren Hosk of the Goblin Squash Stables; #38 on the map]) wouldn't even act like a goblin, but more akin to the human culture it was raised in. At that point, what's the fun of playing a goblin? It's a "Catch-22" scenario that really makes playing a goblin in this AP not even worth it in the end.
|
|
I can see the appeal in playing a goblin that is looking for acceptance. This is how I would make it work, but only if the player was looking for that kind of character and not just an excuse to make all kinds of trouble, as I have seen in the past.
--
What I would do is have him be one of the Junkyard Goblins, who has spent some time watching the humans of Sandpoint, and actually kind of considers them his family. Perhaps, the other junkyard goblins tease him or treat him like a pariah because he doesn't have the cruelty of his ilk.
Perhaps, he befriended another outcaste, maybe even became one of Gorvi's boys, cleaning up the streets. He would probably still be subject to all kinds of prejudice and would never be truly accepted by anyone but the party. Much like Drizz't Do'urden, rejected by the very people that he helps to save.
--
After Burnt Offerings, the goblins as enemy are scarce at best...
Re:Nulia.
Plus her father wanted her to join a nunnery in order to bost his prestige. She was nothing but a bargining chip for his own glory.
After Burnt Offerings, the goblins as enemy are scarce at best...
As someone who has counted up all the monsters in RotRl, just wanted to point out:
Re:Nulia.
Plus her father wanted her to join a nunnery in order to bost his prestige. She was nothing but a bargining chip for his own glory.
She had a real string of bad treatment, I'll agree. The locals hounded her like a freak, not a friend or neighbour. Her father tried to cram her into a box for the sake of 'protecting' her and/or advancing his own status. Her boyfriend, the first person to 'truly love her for herself', was using her for sex and dropped her like a hot rock when she said 'I'm pregnant'. And then there was her father's reaction to her pregnancy, and the miscarriage and its aftermath....
No one of these issues was enough to break her on its own. Put together? Recipe for disaster. x.x
Update:
It went well...after both the Sheriff and the Father spoke to most of the influential people of the city. Oh, and the goblin tries to stay cloaked to not scare anyone. I did have a few people spit on him and look down on him, but for the most part people love a hero. Especially one that always travels with his other adventurer friends. Friends that quickly stick up for him.
The Gunslinger, while he did a lot of damage, he was dropped twice and almost a third. Lots of damage, but really squishy seems to be OK for now. Even the damage, while good, is less than the fighter (and only human in the group) does for the most part.
It went really well actually. The Players are LOVING it! Thanks for all the advice guys!
A side note: Is it just me or is Sandpoint, like, the Florida for Adventurers? :P
Yeah, there's been a few rotten apples, like I said, but again, there's only so many times that little goblin can put his life on the line for these strangers before even the naysayers have to admit that while he's a foul little bastard, he's their foul little bastard! I'm sure there will be some that will never look beyond his green skin, but for the most part the town as a whole like him.
The guy at the horse stables though...there's going to be a problem there...
And Shalelu.
Yeah, only the human has met Shalelu so far. I don't remember if she shows up again in a needed role in the AP.
Yeah, only the human has met Shalelu so far. I don't remember if she shows up again in a needed role in the AP.
Plot spoiler:
I barred drow from my game, as the events of Second Darkness (which introduced the drow to the surface world) hadn't yet occurred in my campaign's continuity.
Similarly, I wouldn't have allowed a goblin as a PC-- the locals would consider it a monster and attack on sight!
But, it's your version of the world, and your (and your players') story to tell. If you want a gobin as a hero, then go for it!