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Ok well this one is one that I think works...but I wanted to check here. I haven't found any threads addressing this directly, but as far as I can tell it works.
Ok in particular the item I am looking at is the Ratfolk Tailblade from the ARG.
According to addittional resources "Racial equipment and magic items can be purchased and used by any race as long as the specific item permits it." And by how I read the description of the tailblades, they are not something that is only usable by ratfolk. As I interpret it they would be usable by any race possessing a tail.
If they were exclusively usable by ratfolk, then I would think their entry would have mirrored the catfolk claw blades, or the kobold tail attachments. Both of the latter two have a statement at the beginning specifying that those can only be used by members of the race who possess a specific racial trait (admittedly I think they would be fine on characters who already possess the natural attacks said traits give members of their race...but thats off topic).
So by my interpretation, any race possessing a tail (but not a tail attack, as using the blade treats as a tail attack) would be able to use a ratfolk tailblade...although not automatically proficient with it.
Thoughts?
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Race Ratfolk
A tailblade is a small, sharp knife designed to be strapped to the tip of a wielder's tail.
Benefit: A ratfolk wielding a tailblade can make a tail attack, adding its Strength modifier to the tailblade's damage.
It takes a full-round action to strap on or remove a tailblade. The wearer can loosely attach the tailblade (without strapping it securely in place) as a move action, but using a loosely attached tailblade gives the wielder a –4 penalty on all attack rolls made with the weapon, and other creatures get a +4 bonus on disarm combat maneuver checks to disarm the tailblade.
Ratfolk are considered proficient with such attacks and can apply feats or effects appropriate to natural attacks to tail attacks made with a tailblade. If used as part of a full attack action, attacks with a tailblade are considered secondary attacks.
Bold seems to indicate that you cannot, as much as the thought of a nine tailed scion kitsune with one of these for every occasion amuses me
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My understanding of the PFS rules regarding the ARG, is that only that race can actually purchase any of the gear, spells or select the feats, for their specific race from that book. The exception here is if another book references it and grants special access, or if player has access via a chronicle sheet.
I'm a bit vague regarding if players can share race specific spells or gear from ARG during play.
So even if your kitsune can use the ratfolk tail weapons, I don't think they can purchase them normally in PFS. Might be able to borrow one from a ratfolk character during play, but unclear on that one.
I could be fully wrong on both points, too.
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Alternate racial traits, racial archetypes, racial evolutions, racial feats, and racial spells are only available for characters of the associated race. Racial equipment and magic items can be purchased and used by any race as long as the specific item permits it (for example, only halflings can purchase and use solidsmoke pipeweed).
What BNW cites from the specific item, Ratfolk Tailblade, confirms that a non-ratfolk cannot use it to make an attack. (I suppose a more generous ruling might be to say that another race with a tail could use it as an improvised weapon, but that's a whole other argument.) So although a non-ratfolk can buy a ratfolk tailblade, there is little purpose in doing so.
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Alternate racial traits, racial archetypes, racial evolutions, racial feats, and racial spells are only available for characters of the associated race. Racial equipment and magic items can be purchased and used by any race as long as the specific item permits it (for example, only halflings can purchase and use solidsmoke pipeweed).What BNW cites from the specific item, Ratfolk Tailblade, confirms that a non-ratfolk cannot use it to make an attack. (I suppose a more generous ruling might be to say that another race with a tail could use it as an improvised weapon, but that's a whole other argument.) So although a non-ratfolk can buy a ratfolk tailblade, there is little purpose in doing so.
A more generous ruling would be that the example is halfling pipe weed , which explicitly says non halflings can't use it, as oppposed to a more passive assumption that a ratfolk would be using ratfolk equipment.
But the ARG requires permission, not is legal unless denied.
Venture-Agent, Minnesota—Minneapolis
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I'm a bit vague regarding if players can share race specific spells or gear from ARG during play.
Unless you're of the race or have a specific GM reward, they can neither scribe nor use racial spells for a different race.
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I'm a bit vague regarding if players can share race specific spells or gear from ARG during play.
As supervillan quoted, most items can be used by any race. If it can only be used by a specific race, it doesn't have any benefit for other races anyway.
Can a halfling character give a human character some solidsmoke pipeweed during an adventure? Sure, but all it will do is sicken the non-halfling user.
Can a gnome wizard cast death from below on a halfling wizard? Yep, and it functions fine. But the halfling can't learn the spell from the gnome.
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Race Ratfolk
A tailblade is a small, sharp knife designed to be strapped to the tip of a wielder's tail.
Benefit: A ratfolk wielding a tailblade can make a tail attack, adding its Strength modifier to the tailblade's damage.
It takes a full-round action to strap on or remove a tailblade. The wearer can loosely attach the tailblade (without strapping it securely in place) as a move action, but using a loosely attached tailblade gives the wielder a –4 penalty on all attack rolls made with the weapon, and other creatures get a +4 bonus on disarm combat maneuver checks to disarm the tailblade.
Ratfolk are considered proficient with such attacks and can apply feats or effects appropriate to natural attacks to tail attacks made with a tailblade. If used as part of a full attack action, attacks with a tailblade are considered secondary attacks.
Bold seems to indicate that you cannot, as much as the thought of a nine tailed scion kitsune with one of these for every occasion amuses me
I understand your point Big Norse Wolf, and that line is largely why I have posted this here at all. However I disagree with your interpretation of it. That line sounds to me as though it is an assumption, not a requisite, as we are in the ratfolk entry.
When you look over at the other racial weapons, both of them actually say...right at the beginning of the entry, that they can only be used by members of their race who qualify. The ratfolk one however has no such entry.
The tailblade also has a weapon stat block that designates it as a light martial weapon...despite them ALL being automatically proficient with the weapon, and the weapon attacks treating as natural attacks.
This all tells me that the tailblade would be something that other races possessing tails would be able to use it.
and yes that would be fun to do, however...such a feat would be effectively all that character would be doing. as about only a kitsune fighter really could pull this off in society play since that would still take 9 feats (i think 7 if you spend all your favored class points on extra tails...still pretty much only fighter)
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and yes that would be fun to do, however...such a feat would be effectively all that character would be doing. as about only a kitsune fighter really could pull this off in...
There's a kitsune oracle curse in the dirty tactics toolbox, Wrecking Mysticism (Kitsune), that lets an oracle get the feats almost as fast as a fighter (and since the tails go off of charisma...)
Venture-Agent, Minnesota
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I'm a bit vague regarding if players can share race specific spells or gear from ARG during play.Unless you're of the race or have a specific GM reward, they can neither scribe nor use racial spells for a different race.
Being Aram Zey's favorite student is a wonderful boon at the five star level. I just wish that I liked Aram Zey more. For fluff reasons I would take Kreighton Shane every time. Also, I just cannot see taking that boon on a character now, for [redacted] reasons.
Still, if you were going to take that boon and get one racial spell and make it available to all your PFS characters, what would you choose?
Hmm
My understanding of the PFS rules regarding the ARG, is that only that race can actually purchase any of the gear, spells or select the feats, for their specific race from that book. The exception here is if another book references it and grants special access, or if player has access via a chronicle sheet.
I'm a bit vague regarding if players can share race specific spells or gear from ARG during play.
So even if your kitsune can use the ratfolk tail weapons, I don't think they can purchase them normally in PFS. Might be able to borrow one from a ratfolk character during play, but unclear on that one.
I could be fully wrong on both points, too.
The tail of a rat is prehensile, tails of foxes are not.
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Blend is great.
Ward of the Season is quite useful given its duration and multiple effects.
Bestow Insight is great for skill monkeys.
.. i think ward of the seasons just replaced blend. But i probably have almost a year to make that decision. not that i've been mulling it over for 2 years or anything...
Just random 2 cents: as far as what's written I believe it pertains more to weapons such as the Elven Curve Blade, Dwarven Long-hammer, etc. Those races could use them, but so could any race that picks up the feat as they don't say it is only for them. (As the tail blade does)
For the purchase side of that, the book was written not only for PFS, so people not playing it could be in a town where a certain race is prevalent could buy the weapon, but if not...couldn't.
IE humans in an elven city could buy an Elven Curve Blade but not a Dwarven Long-hammer. So if your character happened to be in a city with a large Ratfolk presence they could purchase the tail bade but not use it.
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SCP, that is not what it says. And it is a racial weapon, so that they used a racial term to describe the wielder is no surprise and not an implication that others couldn't use it.
Tell me where it says "this can only be used by a ratfolk". I can show you exactly where it says that on the kobold tail attachments...or the catfolk claws. But there is no such statement for the ratfolk tailblade. And other items that are race exclusive each have statements in them specifically saying 'this only works for my race' or 'this gives other races a penalty if they try to use it'.
So there is a precedent set for the racial weapons in the terminology, where they specifically call out if they are locked to their race...and by this precedent the ratfolk tail blade has no statement limiting it to ratfolk alone.
SCP, at best the line you are using line could be interpreted to read that another race would not be able to add their full strength mod to the damage (instead of half like is normal for a secondary natural attack).
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Tell me where it says "this can only be used by a ratfolk".
That is not how you do rules adjudication. The options are not "it absolutely 100% says you can't do this" and "it absolutely 100% prohibits this" and something in the middle.
Racial equipment and magic items can be purchased and used by any race as long as the specific item permits it (for example, only halflings can purchase and use solidsmoke pipeweed).
To decide if something meets that criteria I'm looking for something along the lines of
Strong "other races with tails may use..."
weak "used primarily by..."
To see if they don't meet the criteria
Strong: "only ratfolk have the tail that allows them to..."
weak: used by ratfolk
So when i look at this, all I see is a weak "no". baring any other evidence that leaves me with no as the best answer I can derive from the rules.
In a PFS campaign where You have multiple DM's that is a very bad place for an idea to be. You don't just need 1 dm to sign off on it, if its a core part of your character you want 90 to 100% of the dms signing off on it, and baring official clarification, I don't think thats very likely.
I would be absolutely ecstatic to be wrong, as I have an adorable bundle of fluffy death foxform kitsune that would duct tape one of these on in a heartbeat.
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My point norse wolf...is that that is exactly how it describes it.
In the catfolk entry, it specifically says only catfolk may use them. In the kobold entry it specifically says only kobold may use them. In the solidsmoke pipeweed, it specifically says only a halfling gets any benefit and others cannot (and beyond that take penalty for trying).
And this is continued among the other equipment in the book. The book is fairly good at actively calling out what is only usable by their parent race.
and while i'm not sure I follow exactly that you're doing with your 'criteria' thing, I feel that it better fits the first than the second description.
I would look at it like this
"could it be used by races with tails?" yes
"could a ratfolk use it better?" probably
That is what the statement you highlighted in your first reply refers to. The bit you bolded was being taken out of context of the statement.
A ratfolk wielding a tailblade can make a tail attack, adding its Strength modifier to the tailblade's damage. <- You know that thing that isn't what normally happens with a secondary natural attack.
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My point norse wolf...is that that is exactly how it describes it.
In the catfolk entry, it specifically says only catfolk may use them. In the kobold entry it specifically says only kobold may use them. In the solidsmoke pipeweed, it specifically says only a halfling gets any benefit and others cannot (and beyond that take penalty for trying).
Just because there's A way to say no and another thing said no a different way does not mean that all things have to say no the same way or they're not saying no.
And this is continued among the other equipment in the book. The book is fairly good at actively calling out what is only usable by their parent race.
The book was not written with pfs in mind.
The additional resources WAS written with the book in mind. That additional resource clause requires positive evidence that other races can use the item in question, and the ratfolk tail blade does not provide that. AR has a positive evidence requirement: the burden of proof is on "other races can use this" or anyone can use this, the tailblade doesn't sound like it can be.
"could it be used by races with tails?" yes
"could a ratfolk use it better?" probably
The argument is equally valid that other races can't use it because they don't have the specific anatomy for it: the tail isn't as dexterous, the fur is in the way, etc.
<- You know that thing that isn't what normally happens with a secondary natural attack.
It doesn't come out and say it, but the rules listed for it use the rules for a primary (but not only) natural attack that can be used in conjunction with other weapons: which adds 1x strength bonus and is treated as a secondary natural attack if used as part of a full round action (for a ratfolk, presumably with a manufactured weapon)
Click the FAQ button up top and hope for a response. I'm hardly the most weird ideas adverse DM out there, but additional resources is one area where pfs is absurdly persnickity.
added it to the campaign clarification request thread.
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heh, and that persnickity-ness is exactly what is causing our conundrum.
And by that logic, then you couldn't even use something like incense...as there is no statement saying other races can use it in its description. Most of the terminology used is either restrictive, or not at all...so trying to come up with a 'positive evidence' is going to be few and far between. What you are looking for in this book is 'negative evidence'. Statements specifically saying that it does not work. Which is how the book was written. It doesn't say if everyone can use something, it tells you if everyone else cannot.
And that is exactly what I was accounting for in my assessment of 'ratfolk use it better'. but would you say a less flexible tail like that of a catfolk or kitsune would be unable to swing a knife around and cut you? or that it couldn't be attached because of the fur? I would say neither of those are very plausible that they would prevent it from being usable. That would be like saying they can't wear armor because of their fur, or they would take penalties to wield a weapon cause the fur on their hands makes it so they can't grip it.
Though I do concede that last bit is...weirdly worded. They don't say it's a primary natural attack...and tail attacks are normally secondary attacks by default. And it isn't treated like an only attack, which get strength and a half as base ratfolk do not possess another natural attack.
And as it's a manufactured weapon that gives natural attacks it makes it even more weird. Due to all this weirdness it makes it difficult to suss out how it should actually be handled... from which I think a good part of our conflicts arise.
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I assume you're talking about this incense?
This aromatic resin is imbued with fragrant oils and formed into sticks, cones, or balls. It’s often burned in religious ceremonies or during meditation. A piece of incense burns for 1 hour.
Compare to,
A tailblade is a small, sharp knife designed to be strapped to the tip of a wielder's tail. It takes a full-round action to strap on or remove a tailblade. The wearer can loosely attach the tailblade (without strapping it securely in place) as a move action, but using a loosely attached tailblade gives the wielder a –4 penalty on all attack rolls made with the weapon, and other creatures get a +4 bonus on disarm combat maneuver checks to disarm the tailblade. A ratfolk wielding a tailblade can make a tail attack, adding its Strength modifier to the tailblade's damage. Ratfolk are considered proficient with such attacks and can apply feats or effects appropriate to natural attacks to tail attacks made with a tailblade. If used as part of a full attack action, attacks with a tailblade are considered secondary attacks.
Incense doesn't mention a race at all, whereas the Tailblade calls out Ratfolk in it's use.
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Spartanfury, I'm going to come up with a new item - one with a very short description - and then ask a question about it.
Yum Gum
This rubbery substance is both delicious and sustaining. A gnome can chew a piece of Yum Gum as as standard action to regain one lost hit point.
What happens if a dwarf chews a piece of Yum Gum?
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Spartanfury, I'm going to come up with a new item - one with a very short description - and then ask a question about it.
What happens if a dwarf chews a piece of Yum Gum?Yum Gum
This rubbery substance is both delicious and sustaining. A gnome can chew a piece of Yum Gum as as standard action to regain one lost hit point.
Silly! Kevin, dwarves don't chew gum! It gets in everything and sticks up the works...
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Ok I'm with Hilary there, that is both an amusing picture and something I feel gnomes would do.
And kevin, the incense was just a quick example. The book doesn't tend to positively identify things as being usable by other races, it restrictively identifies them as being only usable by the parent race. And it tends to be quite clear on if something is exclusively usable by only it's race. Something that it sets a precedent with using the other racial weapons.
And Rysky, you are again taking that part of the sentence out of it's context to try and claim it says something more than it does.
As I stated before...if you finish the sentence it is saying that ratfolk can add their full strength mod on damage. This is something that is an aberration from the normal rules on natural attacks.
Normally if you only have 1 natural attack (which a base ratfolk wielding this would have) it is treated as a primary natural attack and deals 1 1/2 strength as though you were wielding a weapon two handed. However in any other case, a tail attack is considered a secondary natural attack which is made at a -5 to hit and only adds 1/2 your strength modifier.
What that statement is saying rysky, is that ratfolk have special rules regarding the attack that do not follow the normal rules for attacks of it's type.
So what I see is a 1d3 secondary natural attack that requires a tail and the corresponding martial weapon proficiency.
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And yet it's worded "A ratfolk wielding a tailblade can make a tail attack, adding its Strength modifier to the tailblade's damage" and not "A ratfolk wielding a tailblade can add their full Strength modifier to the tailblade's damage".
Which leads me to believe that only Ratfolk can use the tailblade.
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Spartanfury, I'm going to come up with a new item - one with a very short description - and then ask a question about it.
What happens if a dwarf chews a piece of Yum Gum?Yum Gum
This rubbery substance is both delicious and sustaining. A gnome can chew a piece of Yum Gum as as standard action to regain one lost hit point.
They must make a fort save or lose the ability to grow facial hair!
... you can't ever trust those gnomes OR their deceptively innocuous-sounding chewy products!