Hi all, I am making a character to enter a group that consists of 3 fighters, a ranger, a magus, a rogue, and an alchemist. I want to play the role of the support cleric and I was looking for some advice. I have looked through some of the guides for clerics and they definitely give me some insight. Now I want some advice from experience players that have used it or done their own.
My concept is a Dwarf cleric of Cayden Caliaen. He is basically knowledgeable and wise about the course of action and use his divine power to help others. But he loves drinking and the freedom to do what you please lol. So this is what I thought would be a good stat array for him but not sure on what feats to get. Any suggestions?
Thorvin Thunderstriker
(after racial bonuses)
Str: 14
Dex: 12
Con: 14
Int: 12
Wis: 17
Cha: 10
Weapons: Warhammer and battleaxe
Armor: Scalemail and light shield or buckler
Feats: ?? Improved initiative or Toughness or Extra channel
As a healer and a support character, you probably want CHA more than DEX.
With three fighters, a ranger, and a magus, you shouldn't be needed much in melee, and as a healer and party-buffer, you're probably a low-priority ranged target. And, you've got a decent HD and Dwarf CON. Your AC can be a little lower.
Your CHA, on the other hand, ups your channel and helps with Diplomacy. You and the rogue are the only two who get Diplomacy as a class skill, and unless your rogue is a charlatan/rake/spy type with high CHA, you're likely to be the only decent candidate for party face. I know that Dwarves suck for CHA, but you may find it worth the extra points.
As for feats, I'd take extra channel. In a party that big, healing bursts are waaaaaay more efficient than spells.
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I had the same thought as Mighty Kahn - if you're focused on support, than you need high cha for the channels. Selective Channeling is a key feat, along with Extra Channel. Take some points out of str and dex, and put them in cha.
I know you like your dwarf theme, but because of the low cha, they are probably the worst race for this sort of thing. Just something to consider.
Personally, my support cleric build is a halfling cleric of Desna with the luck domain. He's a leprechaun wannabe, talking with an Irish accent and spreading the luck around. Halfling clerics have a racial favored class bonus in the Advanced Players Guide that lets them add to the number of times per day they can use their 1st level domain powers, so he'll be using that Bit of Luck a LOT eventually, which is a great power.
To expand on the previous post a bit:
For a large martial based party channeling (preferably out of combat) can be a very efficient method for healing. The trick is to split the damage up as evenly as you can. I would cast Shield Other on whichever of the front liners takes the most damage and find whatever buffs to AC you can. You'll also want to focus more on buffing than combat - the other PCs will be your weapons.
For a support cleric I would go with the following:
str 10, dex 12, con 14, int 12, wis 17, cha 14 - there are plenty of other PCs to do the sword swinging for you so no need to worry about strength. Considering that you'll be the primary healer and divine support character they'll probably even carry your stuff for you.
For feats you'll definitely want to look into selective channeling for when you need to heal in combat.
Another idea for a support cleric:
str 10, dex 14, con 14, int 12, wis 17, cha 12 - here we do something entirely different: take combat reflexes and bodyguard to use AoOs to give allies buffs to AC. You'll be wandering just behind the shield wall, casting spells (maybe even the occasional touch attack) and using Bodyguard to help keep vulnerable party members on their feet.
For feats you might do the following:
1 Combat reflexes
3 Bodyguard
5 Selective Channeling
OK, let's start with basics of what constitutes a good support character:
* Able to keep teammates active in the job they're doing. Rephrased: Prevent/remove debuffs that prevent teammates from doing what they do (this includes the helpless/dying/dead condition).
* Able to improve the ability of teammates to do the job they do.
* Must have high survivability and resistance to debuffs. If your job is to keep teammates active, then you need to be resistant to many negative debuffs as well (including helpless/dying/death).
* Anything that increases the effectiveness of doing the above things is helpful. For instance, movement speed is actually very helpful for a support character. If you can't get to someone in time before they're dead, then you're effectively worthless to that character.
* Damage output you deal is unimportant. If anything, your focus should be maintaining and increasing the damage output of others. Focusing on yourself in terms of offense is a waste of time.
There's a large debate about the effectiveness of healing. I think it's important for a support character to be able to heal -- but healing is almost always a sub-optimal action. Preventing damage and buffing are almost always preferable. If you spend actions to heal, you're reacting and essentially spending time undoing an enemy's action. But again, sometimes it is absolutely necessary to heal.
I like dwarf clerics. They get a bonus to racial wisdom, they get full movement speed in heavy armor (more on that in a sec) and they have a high survivability. Good choice!
Let's look at these available domains from Cayden Caliaen:
Chaos, Charm, Good, Liberation, Strength, Travel
I think travel is probably the best domain for a support character. The boost to movement speed is tremendous -- and the ability to increase mobility on the battlefield is tremendous.
The liberation domain is a nice compliment to the travel domain. Note that the liberation ability is similar to the travel domain ability in 3.5 -- both together is essentially a huge (if slightly overlapping) bonus.
As for the stat block, you're not going to get much benefit from Strength. Dex is more useful than Strength. I like these stats:
Str: 11 (1)
Dex: 12 (2)
Con: 16 (5) (+2 racial)
Int: 10 (0)
Wis: 18 (10) (+2 racial)
Cha: 10 (2) (-2 racial)
One negative of dwarves is the negative to Cha. You really don't want to waste 5 point buy points on buffing a Cha to 12. It's better to just take the Extra Channel feat instead. As long as you don't take the Selective Channeling feat, it's almost like putting 10 point buy points in Cha.
As for feats, I'm a huge proponent of a dwarf cleric taking Heavy Armor Proficiency at 3rd level. Wearing heavy armor is ideal for a cleric that has a high base movement (travel domain!), doesn't have their movement slowed down by armor, and needs to be able to take a lot of punishment. You probably won't get full plate until around 3rd level anyway, so it's a good time to take that feat. Since you have so many fighters in the party, Craft Magic Arms and Armor is a no-brainer. Taking a light shield is a good option because of casting while wielding a weapon issues (you *do* want to wield a weapon to provide flanks -- the weapon itself isn't important).
Focus on taking spells that either buff the team, remove debuffs, or debuff enemies.
Have u considered a different race or possibly even a life oracle? Asssimar have perfect stats for cleric and u can swap your light spell for somthing better.. Corruption Resistance is a good one.. Oracles of life can do everything a cleric can just have less of a spell selection but have nice mysteries to back that up and if u play a human ur even less gimped spell wise.. U still have buff options and bfc like a cleric. Just somthing to think about..
Hey all, thanks for the advice. Very benefical and I will consider it. I did forgot to mention what diety I was following and Meabolex got right on the dot. I am going Cayden Calien and hence the drunken theme....even though all dwarf clerics are drunks, right? Lol
For domains, i was definitely go Travel. I was debating between Good, Strength, and Liberation....but im convince liberation is the best route. Also changing my stats to increase my survivablility is good too, now that i consider it because as long as i can stay up...the longer i can help the party with my abilities. Also i guess extra channel is worth it, especially for low levels.
Also out of the three fighters, one will be an archer and the other is a new player and he might drop out.....so we actually have one fighter lol. Also the rogue and ranger are ranged....for the rogue he might go in melee but the player for the ranger said he is all ranged. So i guess i gave my character initailly enough Str to hit or at least provide flanks.
I have to agree with almost everything Meabolex said except the domain. Travel is a great domain and while liberation is good Cayden Caliaen does not offer this domain so that is not going to work. What I would chose is Azata. Elysium's is a great ability for a support cleric.
Elysium’s Call (Su): With a touch, you can imbue creatures with the spirit of Elysium, lifting their spirits and freeing them from bonds. The creatures touched can immediately reroll any failed saving throws against spells and spell-like abilities of the enchantment (charm) and enchantment (compulsion) subschools. In addition, targets receive a +2 sacred bonus on such saving throws and a +2 sacred bonus on CMB checks to escape a grapple. Finally, targets can ignore up to 5 feet of difficult terrain each round, as if they had the Nimble Moves feat. These bonuses last for a number of rounds equal to 1/2 your cleric level (minimum 1), although the saving throw reroll only applies when the creature is touched. You can use this ability for a number of rounds per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.
I have to agree with almost everything Meabolex said except the domain. Travel is a great domain and while liberation is good Cayden Caliaen does not offer this domain so that is not going to work.
Oh, I just went to PathfinderWiki and it said that Liberation is a Cayden Caliaen domain. This apparently was true in an early Pathfinder source for the deities (I guess the some early playsetting?). However, it was a 6th listed domain -- the later Pathfinder Player's Guide removed it as most deities have only 5 domains.
I would allow it, but it's not RAW.
Elysium’s Call to me is better than Liberation. With that many players someone is bound to get charmed or dominated. It also gives Expeditious Retreat and Fly as domain spells. Holy lance can also be used weapons used by other players.
Don't get me wrong I think Liberation is also a good domain but for a support cleric I think Azata(Good) is a better choice. Keep in mind the +10 bonus to movement from the travel domain is an untyped bonus so stacks with Expeditious Retreat for a 60" move after adjusting for a dwarf at first level.
Elysium’s Call to me is better than Liberation.
In most cases, yes. . . especially if you have the Travel domain anyway.
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Hail, fellow Dwarf cleric of Cayden Cailean!
Just some tips (With concern to your party make up.)
1) Dwarf Cleric don't need a lot of str. You are not a damage dealer, you have no Dex and you can carry up to your heavy load without losing speed!
2) Armor up. Your party don't have a lot of front liners, get into the best armor you can get. At lower levels, you may have to act as a "tank" for the party.
3) Think about focusing on something else other then just healing and support. Summoning, tanking, etc.
4) Channeling is good IF you focus on it. Dwarf Clerics have a hard time doing this, due to the low Cha, so don't pour too many feats into it.
*Personally I will suggest you picking up summoning, as it gives you summons that can tank for your party, therefore taking the heat off you needing to heal them all.
5) SURVIVE! Other then you, only the Ranger and Alchemist in your party have healing. But as they are damage dealers, they should be killing enemies and not healing, making you the main healer in the party.
So don't let yourself drop, or your party will be a bad spot.
In that regard, Liberation Domain is GOLD! Grapple can be the death of the party healer, Liberation lets you dance in Webs, get out of a giant's grab...etc TAKE IT!
+ At lv 8 your friends can benefit form this too with Liberation's lv 8 aura. Can't tell you how many times that have saved my party.
Its like life insurance, you never know you need it till you need it.
Hope all this helps!
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Cleric 3/ Sorcerer 4/ Mystic Theurge 10/ Arcane Archer 3. Character would be able to cast 7th level divine spells and 8th level arcane spells as well as be able to cannibalize wither the sorcerer spells for more cleric spells or the other way around. The AA bit is to make him / her slightly better with a bow and allow her to use the bows range for offensive AoE spells. The BAB though will be only 12 though at 20 so that is good or bad depending how u look at it. This build will allow the character to be doing some thing every round.
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Have you and the rest of your group considered breaking it up into two groups. That many people is far away from the math the challenges of the game are ment for. Six to a group is ok because it is unlikely that everyone will make it to every game and you could stil have 4/5 people on a regular basis.if you are still going with 7/8, consider asking the DM to make sure there are plenty of medium strength enemies. Not only one or two that are too strong to be touched by anyone at the table and not a hoard of chumps that are one shot kills.
For others who want to try their hand at a support cleric and are not married to Cayden, consider Desna.
Luck, nice ability to use when healing is not needed at the moment.
Travel, In light armor, travel domain +10 feet untyped ability and long strider spell(hour per level compared to expeditious retreat's round per level and costing a standard action that could have been: bless, cure spell, buff spell, aid another, ect) you can have 50' speed. That combo with med/hey armor would still be 35' speed, see the chart on page 170 of the crb for armor and encumbrance for other base speeds. Travel domain has great spells other clerics do not have access to.
Taking a cleric with the healing domain is very effective when you get the empowered healing ability.
I do not believe you can make a cleric that is really good at both support and being a badass in their own right. You have to specialize in one or you will end up being mediocre at both.