I'm building a net combat focused fighter. I just would like to make sure that my interpretation of the net and its related feats are correct and to ask a few questions on some of the ambiguous rules or those not mentioned at all.
The net originally is a two-handed thrown ranged weapon, letting the player target enemies up to 10' away, but provokes attacks of opportunity.
The Net Adept feat states that you can treat a net as a one-handed melee reach weapon with a reach of 10', meaning adjacent squares can't be targeted and no attack of opportunity is provoked.
The Net and Trident feat states that you can treat a net as a one-handed ranged weapon, meaning any square up to 10' can be targeted, but it provokes attacks of opportunity.
Both feats state that the net CAN be treated as the corresponding weapon type freely, suggesting the player can switch between the two, or three if you consider that the net was originally a two-handed thrown ranged weapon. Feats and abilities that specify a specific weapon type - such as power attack working on melee attacks, will not effect the net when it is being regarded as the opposite weapon type - ranged weapons in the case of power attack. If the net is regarded as the correct weapon type for the feat or ability, then the bonuses/penalties will apply.
The net originally states that "The first time you throw your net in a fight, you make a normal ranged touch attack roll". Does this imply that the attack roll made will be different when the net is unfolded, even if the feat 'Net Adept' removes the penalty? By changing what the net is treated as through the aforementioned feats, is the type of attack roll made changed as well, or would it always remain a ranged touch attack, even while considered a melee reach weapon.
By getting the feat Greater Two Weapon Fighting, it would allow me to essentially Disarm, Entangle, and Trip the enemy, 5' step in and attack the enemy with a longsword 3 times, considering that the BAB for both the off-hand and the primary would be +11/+6/+1 (without penalties) by level 11. Would the net be considered a light weapon for the penalties of this feat? Can you switch which weapon is considered primary and which is considered off-hand anytime during battle? If so, what type of action would it be?
If I decided to completely avoid the Two Weapon Fighting tree, and I had +20 BAB, could I make the first two attacks with my net and switch to a sword for the last two or, would I have to drop the trailing rope from the net and, with the quick draw feat, draw my sword for this fighting style to work.
If I were to entangle an enemy with my net while they are adjacent to me, could I reduce the range they can move naturally without being forced to make a strength check to 5'? In this situation, could I also decide 'when' the enemy would be forced to make a strength check to move further, that is, could I decide to make the strength check at 5' one time and 10' another? If entangled an enemy at 10' and repositioned him to an adjacent square, could I still force the strength check at 5'?
Could I try to use the net to damage an enemy as an improvised ranged weapon?
The net has 5 hp and 0 hardness. I've read an enemy can just cut it down with a normal attack quite easily because of this; however, if I were still holding the trailing rope, would the net be considered as 'attended', forcing the enemy to succeed at a sunder attempt against my CMD just to cut the net with a weapon? Since a hemp rope can't be damaged with a bludgeoning weapon, does this apply to the net as well? Would piercing weapons be able to damage the net?
Please excuse me if I missed any thread that had already answered most these questions in a clear cut manner.
EDIT: If an enemy succeeds in a strength check to 'burst' the net, does that mean the net is broken or destroyed?
1) The net is originally a one-handed ranged weapon, actually. This is stated in the combat chapter, under "Two-weapon Fighting, Thrown Weapons." The Net and Trident feat is in error.
2) Correct
3) Correct except that, as already stated, the net was always a one-handed ranged weapon. So you could already do this, and the first part of Net and Trident does nothing.
4) Generally yes. However, Power Attack (and Deadly Aim) could never actually be used, as they require you to roll damage while a net simply entangles. Penalties would apply, however.
5) You are overthinking it. That rule is only talking about the fact that nets take a penalty if not folded (though remember, Net Adept does not apply to ranged attacks). As for the attack type, it would use a melee touch attack when used as a melee weapon, as implied by the line in Net Adept "you take no penalty on melee attack rolls for using an unfolded net."
6) The net is a one-handed ranged weapon, as per the combat chapter. So it counts as one-handed, not light for TWF. You select which weapon is primary and which is secondary whenever you declare an attack, and choosing differently between attacks is no action. Though obviously, you cannot change the designations during a single attack action.
7) Not really sure, sorry.
8) Ask your GM. I'd probably say no, but it is really a judgment call.
9) I don't think the enemy would have to use Sunder. As to whether the net could be damaged by a bludgeoning or piercing weapon, all things like that are GM calls. There is no table of damage type vs common objects.
10) Presumably yes.
Whew. I hope that covers everything, and helps.
EDIT: Whoops, missed one. Yes, if you had +20 BaB you could use two attacks with a net and two with a sword at no penalty. You would not need to drop the net, as again, it is only one-handed.
Note: The Net feats can be used with Snag Nets, which are melee weapons.
A better question, is if enchantments that deal extra damage apply to Nets.
Another interesting question, is if a Magnus's Spellstrike and the Arcane Strike feat can be used with Nets.
blackbloodtroll wrote: Another interesting question, is if a Magnus's Spellstrike and the Arcane Strike feat can be used with Nets. That is actually an interesting question that could lead to some interesting builds.
blackbloodtroll wrote: A better question, is if enchantments that deal extra damage apply to Nets. No, because enhancement bonuses add to damage rolls, and a net never makes a damage roll.
blackbloodtroll wrote: Another interesting question, is if a Magnus's Spellstrike and the Arcane Strike feat can be used with Nets. Spellstrike yes (when the net is being used as a melee attack), Arcane Strike no (again, no damage roll, and the weapon only counts as magic for purposes of overcoming DR, not for hitting incorporeal enemies or anything like that). Well, I guess technically you CAN use Arcane Strike with a net, it just wouldn't do anything.
Hmmm... I wonder about a Magus Spellstrike via a weapon impaled into their opponent (via Impaling Critical is my initial thinking here). I imagine that RAW wouldn't allow it (Spellstrike talks about making attack rolls after all), but visually it's pretty compelling stuff...
A Snag Net does damage, but only 1 point.
1 damage is enough to add a bonus to =D
now its got me thinking about Sneak Attacks and non-lethal effects, that could be so much fun with a pair or rogues
"I entangle him in my net, doing 1 damage plus 3d6 Sneak Attack"
"Nice set up Gary, now I hit him my Greatsword, oh he doesn't get a Dex bonus to AC, so add 'my' 3d6 Sneak Attack..."
Besides the net,that´s one of the classical rogue setups.
You might want to look up into the gang-up feat too.
Especially nice with reach weapons.
Thanks for helping to clear things up.
I'm just going to assume that strength checks to burst a net would only give it the broken condition and not outright destroy it. If a sunder attempt isn't made for the net, then that means a normal attack would just reduce its hp to 0, essentially destroying it, making the net pretty easy to get rid of. Is there a way to get around this? Would getting a +1 net actually be worth it?
+1 net with ghost touch. Make it happen!
http://www.pathfindersrd.com/equipment---final/weapons/weapon-descriptions/ net-snag
This is the only place i can find the 'snag net'. The 1 damage you can deal with it is on the second turn, after your opponent is entangled and only in place of a successful trip attack. I don't think this damage is enchanceable or can crit. lol? Although it does have a higher EA and concentration check requirement.
Interestingly it seems at though Hero Lab counts a net as a light weapon, which makes some sense but I don't see where they get that information.
Hawktitan wrote: +1 net with ghost touch. Make it happen!
Here I linked it for you
Every single martial PC I have made, carried a Net.
I does not matter if I was proficient, as touch is easy enough to hit, and entangled is a nasty condition.
An just to make clear what Net & :
Net wrote: When you throw a net, you make a ranged touch attack against your target. A net's maximum range is 10 feet. ...
A net must be folded to be thrown effectively. The first time you throw your net in a fight, you make a normal ranged touch attack roll. After the net is unfolded, you take a –4 penalty on attack rolls with it. It takes 2 rounds for a proficient user to fold a net and twice that long for a non-proficient one to do so.
Net Adept wrote: You can treat a net as a one-handed melee reach weapon with a 10-foot reach. Further, you take no penalty on melee attack rolls for using an unfolded net, and you can use one full-round action or two move actions to fold a net.
Normal: A net is a ranged weapon that imposes a –4 penalty on ranged attack rolls if it is unfolded. Folding a net takes a proficient user 2 rounds.
Net and Trident wrote: You can treat a net as a one-handed ranged weapon, allowing you to wield a light or one-handed melee weapon and still make ranged attacks with your net. When you use your light or one-handed melee weapon to attack an entangled opponent, you gain a +2 bonus on damage rolls and on attack rolls to confirm a critical hit. Shortly said, it allows you to use unfolded nets without penalty, fold them faster and attack entangeld opponents without the TWF penalty.
Wasn´t so conscious about that myself before, it´s quite nice.
Hayato Ken wrote: Shortly said, it allows you to use unfolded nets without penalty, fold them faster and attack entangeld opponents without the TWF penalty. The Net & Trident feat, unless it's another error that I wasn't aware of, does not effect your chance to hit, but just your chance to crit. It does increase your dmg but I don't believe there was a dmg penalty for using TWF.
Hawktitan wrote: The 1 damage you can deal with it is on the second turn, after your opponent is entangled and only in place of a successful trip attack. I'm pretty sure you can entangle and trip the enemy in the first turn, since it makes the trip attack in place of a melee attack, which you should have an extra of even without high BaB or the TWF and Net feats, you'd just receive massive penalties without them.
aethura wrote: Hayato Ken wrote: Shortly said, it allows you to use unfolded nets without penalty, fold them faster and attack entangeld opponents without the TWF penalty. The Net & Trident feat, unless it's another error that I wasn't aware of, does not effect your chance to hit, but just your chance to crit. It does increase your dmg but I don't believe there was a dmg penalty for using TWF.
Hawktitan wrote: The 1 damage you can deal with it is on the second turn, after your opponent is entangled and only in place of a successful trip attack. I'm pretty sure you can entangle and trip the enemy in the first turn, since it makes the trip attack in place of a melee attack, which you should have an extra of even without high BaB or the TWF and Net feats, you'd just receive massive penalties without them. You are right, i misread that. Posting short before falling asleep isn´t always the best idea^^.
Does the TWF penalty even count if you released the net already?
I actually don´t think so, you are still holding the line, but not TWFíng anymore.
And with using TWF you could even do the trip attempt while having only one attack, but with the TWF malus.
You do realize that the Net even among gladiatorial types was never a weapon style where it appears as anything other than a secondary device? At most it's something to slow, entangle,or hold your opponent while you get a good strike at them.
Hayato Ken wrote: Does the TWF penalty even count if you released the net already?
I actually don´t think so, you are still holding the line, but not TWFíng anymore.
And with using TWF you could even do the trip attempt while having only one attack, but with the TWF malus..
1. You shouldn't receive the TWF penalty if you had used the net the turn before, even if you're still holding the trail end of the rope while you attack with something else.
however, if you had the extra attacks and the Quick Draw feat, you should be able to throw the net, drop the trailing rope, pull out a bastard sword and use the remainder of your attacks at normal BaB reduction. At the very least, I can't find anything in the rulebook saying you can't do this.
2. The only problem I have when it comes to that plan, is that the Two Weapon Fighting feat doesn't allow you to attack twice with the same weapon. So, unless you have an extra attack from something else, you can't technically Trip someone the same turn you entangle them with the Snag Net, even if you had a weapon in your other hand.
You could combine the Net with Armor Spikes.
Use the Net to incapacitate the foe and slam them with the Armor Spikes.
A Lore Warden with the Net feats and possibly the Spiked Destroyer feat would be cool.
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