Now from the rules:
Animal companions can select other feats, although they are unable to utilize some feats (such as Martial Weapon Proficiency).
Ok but what about Exotic Weapon Proficiency?
Prerequisite: Base attack bonus +1.
Benefit: You make attack rolls with the weapon normally.
Normal: A character who uses a weapon with which he is not proficient takes a –4 penalty on attack rolls.
Special: You can gain Exotic Weapon Proficiency multiple times. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a new type of exotic weapon.
For all this time I assumed Exotic Weapon Proficiency required Martial Weapon Proficiency which required Simple Weapon Proficiency in that order, but it does not, just the BAB of +1.
Does this mean that you could select an Monkey Animal Companion and have it take Exotic Weapon Proficiency to use a Whip?
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Now from the rules:
Animal companions can select other feats, although they are unable to utilize some feats (such as Martial Weapon Proficiency).Ok but what about Exotic Weapon Proficiency?
** spoiler omitted **
For all this time I assumed Exotic Weapon Proficiency required Martial Weapon Proficiency which required Simple Weapon Proficiency in that order, but it does not, just the BAB of +1.
Does this mean that you could select an Monkey Animal Companion and have it take Exotic Weapon Proficiency to use a Whip?
No. An animal companion can not take any weapon feats. Ever. Which is another reason my Summoner's Eidolon is awesome. But, back to your question. no to weapon feats.
But the Animal Feat section says:
Animal companions with an Intelligence of 3 or higher can select any feat they are physically capable of using.
Monkey, Apes, and other types of Animal Companions are physically capable of using a Club, for example, as a Simple Weapon. Training them to use better weapons though if they are physically capable, I don't understand why not?
But the Animal Feat section says:
Animal companions with an Intelligence of 3 or higher can select any feat they are physically capable of using.Monkey, Apes, and other types of Animal Companions are physically capable of using a Club, for example, as a Simple Weapon. Training them to use better weapons though if they are physically capable, I don't understand why not?
It is really a DM call. I would allow it with an int of 3 or higher.
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According to general consensus on the boards, an animal with an intelligence of 3, should be able to acquire any feat, although they might not physically be able to utilize it. Though in this example I believe that an ape, with an intelligence of 3 should be able to take the exotic weapon feat and use the weapon, as it has hands.
Creative Director
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Whether or not an animal companion can take ANY weapon proficiency, simple, martial, or exotic, is a GM call. At the very least, the animal needs an Intelligence score of 3 and the limbs needed to wield the weapon in question—and if limbs can wield a weapon is again solely in the GM's judgment.
If you want a sidekick who can wield weapons, your best bet is to play a summoner (for the eidolon) or take the Leadership feat (for the cohort).
Go James! :-)
As for solving the part about limbs, there is a cloak that gives Alter Self for a full hour pr. Day. And since we are doing silly things, get it 10-16 of those.
A headband of intellect is also a good idea, 3 may be sentient but not very bright. :-)
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It's not such much that they can't pick up a sword and swing with it. Would they know what to do with it? most likely not. Even with training, and even if it is smart, it is still a monkey. I wouldn't say it could if I was dm'ing, but your DM might be more giving then I am. Ask them! :)
Watch the opening scenes of 2001: A Space Odyssey to see what happens when apes move from INT 2 to INT 3. :)
Does this mean that you could select an Monkey Animal Companion and have it take Exotic Weapon Proficiency to use a Whip?
- I don't see why that wouldn't work. With a monkey its probably not cheesey. With an ape....
Doesn't your party have enough combat monkies? :)
No, but if you wait til higher level, you can cast Awaken on a creature (ex: gorilla) and it can certainly learn how to use weapons and whatnot as it advances in levels.
"Is that a monkey?"
"He's got a gun!"
Ah, I love Hellboy.
Anyway, if you were playing in one of my games I would disallow simian weapon use beyond a simple club unless they were awakened. This is, of course, just my opinion, but I feel that anything more sophisticated would require at least Int. 5 to wield. And even then with no degree of finesse.
Now from the rules:
Animal companions can select other feats, although they are unable to utilize some feats (such as Martial Weapon Proficiency).Ok but what about Exotic Weapon Proficiency?
** spoiler omitted **
For all this time I assumed Exotic Weapon Proficiency required Martial Weapon Proficiency which required Simple Weapon Proficiency in that order, but it does not, just the BAB of +1.
Does this mean that you could select an Monkey Animal Companion and have it take Exotic Weapon Proficiency to use a Whip?
Note that that list in parentheses is by no means exhaustive, and that common sense should be employed. Even though EWP does not require SWP or MWP in its prerequisites, it's still pretty much the same thing: a feat for weapon proficiencies. When it comes to physical ability to wield weapons, an exotic weapon is no different from a martial one.
It's not such much that they can't pick up a sword and swing with it. Would they know what to do with it? most likely not. Even with training, and even if it is smart, it is still a monkey. I wouldn't say it could if I was dm'ing, but your DM might be more giving then I am. Ask them! :)
In some ways, it has transcended its animal nature. Animals have int 1 or 2, or "animal intelligence". They're "just animals" because of that intelligence score. A monkey with int 3 is as smart as a human with int 3, or a god with int 3.
The animal type even says that "no creature with an Intelligence score of 3 or higher can be an animal".
And the animal companions descriptions says under Animal Feats "Animal companions with an Intelligence of 3 or higher can select any feat they are physically capable of using."
That means that it's exactly as much whether they can pick up a sword and swing with it.
So those "more giving" GMs are just those who play by the rules as they are written.
I'm curious if people let barbarians with a Int of 3 use anything beyond a simple club, because that that point the barbarian and the ape are functionally the same as far as requirements for wielding weapons are concerned. Both would have the basic ability to pick it up and swing it like a club, irregardless of what weapon they actually had in their hand. For a slashing sword or an axe, that's really all you need. The finesse really isn't required, even if it is helpful. So I would have to say it depend on the weapon. Martial and exotic slashing and bludgeoning weapons would be fine for either the really, really stupid barbarian or the surprisingly intelligent ape. Anything else beyond simple weapons would be very hard for either to use well.
I'm curious if people let barbarians with a Int of 3 use anything beyond a simple club, because that that point the barbarian and the ape are functionally the same as far as requirements for wielding weapons are concerned.
Well, the ape isn't QUITE as bipedal as even the slopiest foreheaded orc , so that might throw it off a little. What you do with your feet while fighting is at least as important as what you do with your hands, even if you're not kicking.
I'm curious if people let barbarians with a Int of 3 use anything beyond a simple club.
I'd never let anyone play with such a low stat. I would consider a Int. 3 character to be so subnormal as to be unable to function in anything other than a very basic manner unless led constantly by others. If they were to pick up a sword, they would use it like a club, possibly having difficulties with the "sharp bit goes in the other man" concept, so really it would be an improvised weapon.
Just a random thought, but yeah monkey's and any animal with opposable thumbs could wield 'human' weapons but then I got to thinking about a certain fire tailed lion from a certain rpg that used a bladed headdress for a weapon....and then there is an anime I know I saw where a cat wielded a sword in it's teeth.
And certainly I'm sure a crazy enough gnome could rig a repeater crossbow to a dog.
Silly as hell yes, but nothing is impossible if you can make craft checks and give a good enough explanation.
I know this may be a bit of thread necromancy, but would Catch Off-Guard and Throw Anything be reasonably permissible feats for an Ape companion with Int 3?
Maybe. A particularly dim NPC from S&S had both those feats.
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Well I hate to do this, but... Thread necromancy, go!
The imp companion of a diabolist counts as a animal companion in lots of ways. That being said, it A.) has hands and B.) has a very high intelligence score. Would it therefore be able to acquire martial weapon proficiency? If so, I have this strange urge to make a diabolist with a dervish dancing imp as a way to give the middle finger to Sarenrae.
It's kind of an issue that apes have understated Strength scores in Pathfinder in terms of lifting and face-ripping, but overstated in terms of using a club. Most humans can get more power out of a baseball bat than even most apes; it's all in the twitch. At the very least, I'd assign an ape a -2 circumstance penalty to wield anything other than a rock, club, or greatclub.
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It's kind of an issue that apes have understated Strength scores in Pathfinder in terms of lifting and face-ripping, but overstated in terms of using a club. Most humans can get more power out of a baseball bat than even most apes; it's all in the twitch. At the very least, I'd assign an ape a -2 circumstance penalty to wield anything other than a rock, club, or greatclub.
That moment when somebody hands a Louisville Slugger to a silverback mountain gorilla. I don't know about you, but I'd go find the biggest gun I could get my hands on just in case it decided human heads would be good for hitting a homer.
I deliberately said most apes. :) I would definitely draw the line at a silverback gorilla. At that point, sheer bulk dwarfs any question of swing efficiency.
The imp companion of a diabolist counts as a animal companion in lots of ways. That being said, it A.) has hands and B.) has a very high intelligence score. Would it therefore be able to acquire martial weapon proficiency? If so, I have this strange urge to make a diabolist with a dervish dancing imp as a way to give the middle finger to Sarenrae.
No need for Impy to acquire MWP.
Imps are Devils, and thus, Outsiders.
• Proficient with all simple and martial weapons and any weapons mentioned in its entry.
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The imp companion of a diabolist counts as a animal companion in lots of ways. That being said, it A.) has hands and B.) has a very high intelligence score. Would it therefore be able to acquire martial weapon proficiency? If so, I have this strange urge to make a diabolist with a dervish dancing imp as a way to give the middle finger to Sarenrae.No need for Impy to acquire MWP.
Imps are Devils, and thus, Outsiders.
• Proficient with all simple and martial weapons and any weapons mentioned in its entry.
Boy I'm a dummy for missing that. Thanks for kicking my brain-hamster around. It's running along its little wheel again. .. Now I just need to get the imp a tiny scimitar, weapon finesse and dervish dance. Because lawl.