I'm thinking of playing a Dual-Cursed Oracle of Life who, eventually, I intend to play as a pure caster (casting Healing, Buffing, Summoning, and Control spells every round without ever bothering to swing a weapon).
I'm definitely into the Haunted Curse for the spells it gives, and it fits my concept very well to take the Blacked Curse as my "never improving" one. However, I know that early on, I am basically required to fight in melee--I won't have the spell slots to keep casting, nor will I have any real repeated options anyway (even the Burning Hands spell that the Blackened curse grants is pretty lame, so it'll probably just be Bless and then fight).
So, knowing this, I'm wondering if the Improved Unarmed Strike feat would let me fight without the -4 weapon attack penalty from the Blackened Curse. If not, I'll probably still suck it up anyway(or take the Legalistic curse instead), so it's not a huge deal--but if anyone has a work around so I can function for the first few levels (unfortunately when the -4 penalty hurts the most anyway), I'd love to hear it.
Unfortunately, I don't think the body part I use to attack is relevant--the text I've seen just says, "you take a -4 penalty to weapon attacks." Kneeing someone with an armor spike would still count as a weapon attack, I assume, so it would be penalized. So, I guess the real question is:
Is an unarmed attack a weapon?
I also am pretty sure I wouldn't really want to fight unarmed without the feat--I'm expecting mostly undead and constructs, so nonlethal would be pointless, and I am not exactly interested in provoking an attack every time I swing.
I can't believe I spelled Blackened wrong in the title and only just realized it.
Ok, follow up question here:
If I have the Blackened Curse and I use Oracle's Burden, can I give just about any monster a -4 to hit? Essentially, the question this time is, would the penalty apply to natural weapons?
I'd guess the wording of 'weapon attacks' would be to purposefully exclude natural weapons.
I was assuming it was to exclude spell attacks.
I wasn't sure if the fact that it was a natural weapon meant it'd be penalized. And in this case, I'd really like it to work that way, so I can use Oracle's Burden to give a -4 penalty to almost any opponent.
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I've been trying to find the reference, but I know when Blood of Angels first came out, one of the developers said they used the phrase "weapon attacks" to indicate that manufactured weapon attacks would be affected. I recall it coming up because a player was concerned that since rays are often treated as weapons it would interfere with his casting attacks.
The devs response was that all spell attacks, including rays, should be fine, but any attack with a manufactured weapon would take the penalty.
**Edited**
Does this post explaining the intent help?
It's meant to only impose the penalty on manufactured weapon rolls.
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Does this post explaining the intent help?
It's meant to only impose the penalty on manufactured weapon rolls.
Ah, your search-fu is strong as ever Cheapy. Looks like it is just manufactured weapons.
It's kind of funny, in a way, but the correct answer I got here kind of turned out to be the worst of both worlds.
I always assumed spell attacks would be exempt. I was initially concerned about what I'd do if I couldn't really make regular attacks, but thought the ability to give a -4 to attacks against just about anyone using Oracle's Burden would be a silver lining.
Unfortunately, since it doesn't apply to Natural Attacks, I have no recourse other than being some weird race (I kind of need to be Human for a number of reasons) and I can't penalize the vast majority of monsters since they'll be using Natural Attacks.
So, now, I'm curious--if I absolutely don't want Tongues and Haunted is my primary curse, what secondary curse should I go for, both in regards to a penalty I can handle, a minor benefit I might like, and the ability to curse the enemy with it (since cursing them with Haunted does basically nothing)?
Wrecker is nice if you don't plan on ... well doing much of anything other than use wondrous items and spells.
Lame is probably your best choice at 1st level, especially if you can find ways to boost your speed. Clouded vision is nice once you reach 5th level and can increase the range of your vision to 60 feet (but curse your enemies so that they can only see 30 feet).
So you're pretty set on handing your curse to enemies?
Not exactly, but I get the spell free from being Dual Cursed, so I thought, "hey, if I can use this to some benefit, why not?"
If there's no good choices, I'll just ignore the spell as I had initially planned.
Wrecker is nice if you don't plan on ... well doing much of anything other than use wondrous items and spells.
That is pretty much what I intended, so yeah, it wouldn't really be an issue, either. Good call. Now my leading candidates for my second curse in the "might as well not be a curse" category are Legalistic and now Wrecker.
I still feel like Blackened is a better fit, but I want to consider all of my options. :)
As for Lame, I don't know, I feel like that's lame. It will actually hurt me as a primary healer (I won't be able to get to people as fast), especially with the armor penalty on top, and I don't care for the aesthetics of it. I do really like the aesthetics of the Clouded Vision curse, but it's just too brutal, even as a curse that advances, never mind as one that never does.
I would defenently suggest the wreaker curse, as when you pass that off with oracles burden, any weapons they have inflict a -2 to att and damage and have a 20x2 crit, any armour they wear has its ac halved, and doubles its armour check penalty. If you come across someone who actually wields anything at all, that can be decent.
Consumed could be good, you basically up any damage the target takes by 50% but they get knocked out instead of dying. Since you stated that you are against alot of undead and constructs, i would actually skip this one...
I recommend against using oracle's burden or whatever that spell is called that lets you give your curse to an enemy. There are better things to use your spells on.
I will defer to your expertise, but can you give me some advice on which spells are better? Other than Spiritual Weapon (assuming I can use Charisma instead of Wisdom which seems like the clear RAI), what level 2 spells should I be spending my slots on in combat? I am attempting to make a character that doesn't need to fight with weapons, and other than the aforementioned Spiritual Weapon, I'm left with, what, Bless I suppose?
I asked that question a while back and didn't get a clear answer. The rule states that "You take a –4 penalty on weapon attack rolls", but that would imply that you can't hold a weapon firmly to get a clear strike. Unarmed strikes and natural weapons shouldn't technically be subjected to that because, well, you're not holding anything while striking.
Unarmed attacks are generally also considered manufactured weapons for purposes of spell effects.
Your limbs feel like they are burning. Hitting something when you feel like you have third degree burns is going to make ANYONE flinch. Hence, the -4...don't hit things.
==Aelryinth
Unarmed attacks are generally also considered manufactured weapons for purposes of spell effects.
Your limbs feel like they are burning. Hitting something when you feel like you have third degree burns is going to make ANYONE flinch. Hence, the -4...don't hit things.
==Aelryinth
The thing is that only the hands are affected, so kicking shouldn't take the penalty nor does biting.
Technicaly, the rule is missing "You take a –4 penalty on weapon attack rolls made with your hands".