Starting a new AP later this week and scrambling for ideas and thought a DEX based character utilizing either or both the PrC and the archetype for an Aldori Swordlord character might be really interesting. That said, I'm pretty hopeless at melee builds and feat chains and thought I'd better run here and look for some help.
I did some searches, but didn't come up with too much detailed and up to date info and was trying to figure out if I can pull it off, if either or both the PRC and archetype are 'traps' and what else I need to be aware of.
Per my DM, I am basically using "15 point buy system with an addition 5 points to spend on non-core abilities" to help fill the character out. For feats I am assuming core products only. I was thinking maybe something like this for my 15 points:
STR 3pts = 13 (+1)
DEX 7pts + 2 (Human) = 17 (+3)
CON 5pts = 14 (+2)
Any help or advice for this 3x/PFRPG melee layperson greatly appreciated!
I would start here.
I would start here.
Thanks! That's not bad and I do recall seeing it previously, but it's a bit out of date with regards to the addition of the PRC.
Personally I go with higher strength. Put con to 14, Dex 14 and Str 15 lowering you CHR to 8. Use the Dual Talented Human Racial trait to get an additional +2. The use you additional 5 point to get 13 Int and 12 Wis. In this way you lose a Feat but as fighter that's not big deal. The skill bonus is nice but you get 3 skills per level here instead 4 so it isn't so bad.
You stats will be
STR: 17
DEX: 16
Con: 14
INT: 13 (For Combat Expertise)
WIS: 12
CHR: 8
If dump stats are not allowed drop CON to 13 and bring CHR to 10.
A Dex build I find don't work with Aldori Swordlord builds. I've seen it it done a couple times and defensively they are great but they lack the damage out put. So you want a good DEX for defense but you need STR for damage out put.
@voska66: Is that taking account the new option in the PRC where at first level you get the ability to trade dex for str as your damage modifier?
I ask, because I might flip your Dex and Str in your stats. I would still snag power attack, but then you get Dex as your static modifier for attacks, but still have a decent strength modifier for power attack.
Here's how I would work the first 8 levels:
STR minimum 13 (for power attack)
DEX minimum 18 (primary offensive and defensive stat)
INT minimum 13 (for combat expertise)
Level Progression, Feat selection and attribute allocation
1st (Fighter 1): EWP (Aldori Dueling Sword), Power Attack, Weapon Finesse
2nd (Fighter 2): Weapon Focus (Aldori Dueling Sword)
3rd (Fighter 3): Improved Unarmed Strike
4th (Fighter 4): Crane Style, +1 DEX
5th (Fighter 5): Dazzling Display
6th (Aldori Swordlord PrC 1)
7th (Fighter 6): Combat Expertise, Weapon Spec. (Aldori Dueling Sword)
8th (Fighter 7): +1 DEX
At 8th level, when wearing no armor, fighting defensively with a non-magical ADS and power attacking two-handed, this character has +11 to hit (no penalty to hit, due to Crane Style and Steel Net ability, but -3 from power attack), does 1d8+16 damage and has an AC of 22 (24 if using full-attack action).
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Here's how I would work the first 8 levels:
STR minimum 13 (for power attack)
DEX minimum 18 (primary offensive and defensive stat)
INT minimum 13 (for combat expertise)Level Progression, Feat selection and attribute allocation
1st (Fighter 1): EWP (Aldori Dueling Sword), Power Attack, Weapon Finesse
2nd (Fighter 2): Weapon Focus (Aldori Dueling Sword)
3rd (Fighter 3): Improved Unarmed Strike
4th (Fighter 4): Crane Style, +1 DEX
5th (Fighter 5): Dazzling Display
6th (Aldori Swordlord PrC 1)
7th (Fighter 6): Combat Expertise, Weapon Spec. (Aldori Dueling Sword)
8th (Fighter 7): +1 DEXAt 8th level, when wearing no armor, fighting defensively with a non-magical ADS and power attacking two-handed, this character has +11 to hit (no penalty to hit, due to Crane Style and Steel Net ability, but -3 from power attack), does 1d8+16 damage and has an AC of 22 (24 if using full-attack action).
That is not too bad. What do you think about switching out levels 4 and 5 of fighter and going with two levels of Monk (Master of Many Styles). You will get better saves, unarmed attack, you can also pick up Crane Style and Crane Wing (Free hand blocks a melee attack per round). You can mix in Sacred Mountain to get toughness for free or mix in Sohei to get the ability to act in surprise rounds (This allows you to fight defensively faster.) If you are going with no armor fighting, you can also add a little Wisdom bonus in.
This costs you a BAB and 2 Hitpoints, but I think you can afford it.
|
I've been playing this build in Kingmaker for a few months; just hit level 3 last night. : )
Half-Elf • +2 Dex, Ancestral Arms gives EWP (Aldori Dueling Sword), Multi-Talented gives two favoured classes (Ranger and Fighter)
Traits • Sword Scion (of course!), Rich Parents (to get Mwk sword & armour)
Str14 Dex20 Con11 Int15 Wis10 Cha15 (rolled stats, 15 could have gone on Con but I'm role-playing : D)
1st • Rgr1, Favoured Enemy (Human), Weapon Finesse, EWP as above
2nd • Rgr2, Combat Style-Two Handed Weapon for Power Attack bonus feat
3rd • Ftr1 (Weapon Master archetype), Quick Draw, Weapon Focus (ADS)
4th • Ftr2, Weapon Guard, Aldori Dueling Mastery, +1 Con
5th • Ftr3, Weapon Training 1 (ADS), Dodge
6th • Ftr4, Mobility
At this point I qualify for the Duelist PrC, and do +1 damage/level, and +1 AC/level up to +3 (my lvl8 stat bonus will be Int)
I will use my ADS in two hands and using Power Attack, giving these numbers (not counting any gear I pick up later, just the Mwk ADS and Mwk studded leather. I'll get a mithral shirt as soon as I can, and get my sword and armour enchanted ASAP)
Level • Att Bon • Damage • AC • Init
1st. +8. 1d8+3. 18. +5
2nd. +8. 1d8+6. 18. +5
3rd. +10. 1d8+6. 18. +5
4th. +10. 1d8+9. 19. +7
5th. +12. 1d8+10. 20. +7
6th. +13. 1d8+10. 20. +7
From level 7 till level 16 I'll take Duelist. My attack bonus will increase by level except for levels 8, 12 and 16, my damage will increase by one per level with an extra +3 at levels 8, 12 and 16, my AC will increase by +1 per level until I run out of Int bonus (min +3). Special abilities increase my initiative, and my AC when fighting defensively. My feats at 7th, 9th and 11th will be Weapon Specialisition, Improved Critical and Spring Attack, but I haven't decided the order yet.
When I designed this character I didn't know about the Aldori Swordlord archetype; I do now, but I'm content with Weapon Master. What is that feat you had alongside Sword Scion? (something) Defender? I can't find it. Also, where do I find the Aldori Swordlord PrC?
This build has NO freedom of choice for feats until level7! But I'm enjoying playing her immensely! : )
Any comments would be appreciated!
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
|
I'm building a Tiefling Aldori swordlord for Pathfinder Society, going Fighter (lore warden) 3 and Magus (kensai) 3 before taking a couple levels in the Aldori Swordlord prestige class and finishing up with kensai. It may not be optimal, but it has plenty of tricks and holds its own against monsters and mobs. He's good with his ADS, and he's not bad with a longbow, either.
It's worth comparing the benefits of different fighter archetypes. The ones I found relevant were
Aldori Swordlord (of course)
Free-hand Fighter (which I think dominates Aldori Swordlord; the bonuses apply under more circumstances)
Weapon Master (which is probably worthwhile if you're sticking with the ADS exclusively, especially if you take 5 levels)
Lore Warden (Combat Expertise, and +2 CMB and CMD at all times).
I went with Lord Warden because I was already planning to add some levels of Magus, so I knew I was going to wear light armor. If you're planning a Swordlord in plate, you'd make a different choice.
Put con to 14, Dex 14 and Str 15 lowering you CHR to 8. Use the Dual Talented Human Racial trait to get an additional +2. The use you additional 5 point to get 13 Int and 12 Wis. In this way you lose a Feat but as fighter that's not big deal. The skill bonus is nice but you get 3 skills per level here instead 4 so it isn't so bad.
Nice, will definitely keep this in mind and have already shot off an email to my DM to confirm alternate racial traits is an option.
@voska66: Is that taking account the new option in the PRC where at first level you get the ability to trade dex for str as your damage modifier?
Yeah, the addition of the PRC and wanting up to date takes on this is of definite interest to me. I was thinking the same thing about keeping an emphasis on DEX, despite a lot of the older threads, specifically because of the new Prestige Class
At 8th level, when wearing no armor, fighting defensively with a non-magical ADS and power attacking two-handed, this character has +11 to hit (no penalty to hit, due to Crane Style and Steel Net ability, but -3 from power attack), does 1d8+16 damage and has an AC of 22 (24 if using full-attack action).
Colecm, thank you. I can tell I am a bit out of my depth, as I'm not sure where all the AC is coming from in your above example, so I'll have to read up on all the feats listed in your sample build.
Thanks for the input so far, guys. Lots to think about! I really do get the feeling that opting for this sort of character has dropped me into the deep end of the pool, compared to what I'm used to in PFRPG (casters, utility characters and/or very basically built switch hitters), but I'm hopeful I can pull this off.
Thanks again to any and all who have or will chip in their ideas and advice!
When I designed this character I didn't know about the Aldori Swordlord archetype; I do now, but I'm content with Weapon Master. What is that feat you had alongside Sword Scion? (something) Defender? I can't find it. Also, where do...
Here's the basic info from the SRD:
Archetype: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/fighter/archetypes/paizo---fig hter-archetypes/aldori-swordlord-brevoy
Prestige Class: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/a-b/aldori-swo rdlord
Prestige class is in Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Paths of Prestige, which, despite my not being a huge supporters of PRCs, looks good and has some nice campaign specific prestige classes.
@voska66: Is that taking account the new option in the PRC where at first level you get the ability to trade dex for str as your damage modifier?
I ask, because I might flip your Dex and Str in your stats. I would still snag power attack, but then you get Dex as your static modifier for attacks, but still have a decent strength modifier for power attack.
Nope don't have that, I was thinking the archetype only. So PRC class gives you Dex for damage, good to know. That's pretty sweet. Does it work just like strength if you two hand your Aldori Sword for 1.5 strength damage too?
Does it work just like strength if you two hand your Aldori Sword for 1.5 strength damage too?
No, it does not.
Deft Strike (Ex)
An Aldori swordlord can add his Dexterity bonus (if any) on damage rolls made with an Aldori dueling sword instead of his Strength bonus. This bonus on damage rolls applies whether the swordlord is wielding an Aldori dueling sword one-handed or two-handed, though the swordlord does not apply 1-1/2 times his Dexterity bonus on damage rolls while fighting two-handed. An Aldori swordlord cannot use this ability if he is wielding a shield or an off-hand weapon, including armor spikes, unarmed strikes, or natural weapons.
|
I was going to ask why everyone was recommending Power Attack over Piranha Strike and then remembered the silliness of Piranha Strike only applying to light weapons not finessable weapons, sigh.
I'd have put strength at 10 if not for that silly ruling given that the swordlord will be wielding one handed all the time anyway.
Does it work just like strength if you two hand your Aldori Sword for 1.5 strength damage too?No, it does not.
Deft Strike (Ex)
An Aldori swordlord can add his Dexterity bonus (if any) on damage rolls made with an Aldori dueling sword instead of his Strength bonus. This bonus on damage rolls applies whether the swordlord is wielding an Aldori dueling sword one-handed or two-handed, though the swordlord does not apply 1-1/2 times his Dexterity bonus on damage rolls while fighting two-handed. An Aldori swordlord cannot use this ability if he is wielding a shield or an off-hand weapon, including armor spikes, unarmed strikes, or natural weapons.
I think I'll have to buy the book next chance I get.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Guy
I think dipping into Monk would set them back. They'll get a lot more benefit from Fighter levels, especially if they push through to 11th when they get Counterattack and can make AoOs against enemies that hit them in combat (with Combat Reflexes and a 20+ DEX, that's a lot of extra attacks in a round).
The bonus to saves would help them in the short run, but they get enough feats as a Fighter to take Iron Will and the like if they want to bolster their saves.
Plus, Monk is too MAD for a 15 point game.
Doug
Sorry about that, I should have included a breakdown. I'll do that here and edit my first post as well.
The 22 AC comes from:
• DEX +5 dodge
• Fighting defensively +6 dodge
- (Acrobatics +3, Steel Net +2, Crane Style +1)
• Shield +1
- Aldori Dueling Mastery (which you get for free from the Aldori
Swordlord PrC at 1st).
The +2 dodge bonus when making a full attack is from the archetype's 3rd level Defensive Parry ability.
Edit: never mind. It's too late to edit my earlier post.
I think if I level dipped into anything, it would be 2 levels in Urban Barbarian for a cool +4 morale bonus to DEX, Uncanny Dodge and Quick Reflexes Rage Power; for extra Counterattack fun.
Thanks for the further responses, guys. I will definitely use a lot of the advice presented. It's a new campaign with a new DM and group of players for me, so I will see how amenable they are to dipping via multi-classing and the like, I want to make sure the DM sees it as character building and optimization as opposed to 'min-maxing' or any negative stereotypes.
That said, Monk is a definitely interesting addition at the mid-levels, so we'll see what develops. Either way, I'm now confident I can a fun and pretty damned effective character going this route.
Thanks again!