Fighter dip for a rogue

[crystallos]

like the title states im currently working on an elf rogue atm and id like to use the elven curve blade feint build. the fighter level gets me essentially free proficiency and a bonus feat so it seems like itd be an ok dip. but im curious if its going to hurt me in the long run.

[Nicos]

crystallos wrote:

like the title states im currently working on an elf rogue atm and id like to use the elven curve blade feint build. the fighter level gets me essentially free proficiency and a bonus feat so it seems like itd be an ok dip. but im curious if its going to hurt me in the long run.

If you want to be a martial rogue then no, the level in fighter would not hurt you. If you want to be a skill monkey then ye, you will loose several skills points.

I actually recomend 3 levels of weapon master.

[Atarlost]

Dipping out of a non-caster into a full BAB class is usually okay. Dipping out of rogue is particularly safe.

You'll delay getting advanced rogue talents, which aren't actually all that great. Half the time you'll be -1 on trapfinding and -1 sneak attack die relative to a pure rogue. You'll be down a bunch of skill points (dip Lore Warden if you want any int based skills or Gendarme Cavalier if you want and qualify for but haven't already taken Power Attack or Spring Attack to reduce the skill loss) as well, but that's about it.

You'll get back a bit more than half of your lost sneak attack die in bigger weapon dice going from single rapier to curve blade and won't sneak attack all the time even with a feint build so you're ahead on average there.

That said, it's not a good build. I'm pretty sure feint never gets less than a move action unless using Two Weapon Feint, which means you won't be full attacking or spring attacking. The lack of swift or free action feint pretty much means no feint build that isn't TWF is worth it.

[Dilvias]

How important is the bonus feat to the concept? A level of ranger gets you almost as many skill points as rogue, plus a whole host of other goodies (+2 reflex save, favored enemy, track, and the ability to use clw wands).

[TGMaxMaxer]

Yeah, Feint is a move every time. Exceptions: Scout archetype 4th level swift on a charge; Skulking Slayer(H-Orc only) 9th level swift on a charge. Neither one is good for a full attack, unless you also build into a pounce from something, which means you did more than dip somewhere else.

I recomment Lore Warden Fighter 3 and Dirty Trick maneuver, Quick dirty trick lets you make it as your first attack, use it to blind, and then sneak away. H-Orc slayer gets it for free at 1 without takin quick trick, also gives you a bonus on the roll equal to your sneak dice. As well, if you make them str based instead of dex based, H-Orc has a Cleave chain that lets you sneak any target after the first, with an enlarge, great cleave and a greatsword, mine is SICK.

If you're stickin with elf, take the dirty trick chain, and dip 3 level Lore warden anyways, make sure you know until you get to the +1 Agile weapon your damage is gonna be less than great.

[Helic]

If all you want is a free weapon proficiency, it's probably not worth it. OTOH, if you want a PILE of weapon proficiencies, armor proficiencies and more BAB, dipping into Fighter is good for a Rogue.

[TGMaxMaxer]

Or just play a H-elf instead and take Ex wpn prof in elven curve blade instead of the skill feat.
(alternate race trait)

[Mysterious Stranger]

From a game mechanic point rouges are the weakest class. So dipping into any full BAB class is usually going to be more effective. If you are working on a specific concept then that may not be the case. I would take a look at Urban Ranger or Trapper Ranger archetype and see if that fits your concept better. A full multiclass with either of those archetypes is normally going to be superior to a pure rouge. The only thing you really lose is sneak attack. You can use feats to gain more rouge talents.

[Gerald]

An old standby from at least 3.5, and probably 3.0 has been Rogue 16/Full BAB class 4.

[Anetra]

Gerald is right, putting four fighter levels on your rogue is ye olde standard. It gets you a fourth attack at 20, when your BAB hits 16 (which, as a pure rogue, it wouldn't). It also gets you weapon specialization, if you want it.

I also agree that Weapon Master is the best archetype to take. You get Weapon Training 1, which you can use to equip the Gloves of Duelling, which will increase your Weapon Training by 2 points up to 3.

You'll also get three feats out of the arrangement, which is nothing to sneeze at.

[Ciaran Barnes]

The bonus to Fort is helpful, but several classes can give that. Heck, barbarian is decent for some rogues.

[BltzKrg242]

Barbarian is GREAT for some rogues. extra speed, some overlap of abilities...

[Ciaran Barnes]

I was understating it. You're right though.

[BltzKrg242]

We just had our "Face" rogue who was getting fed up in combat decide to follow his big Shoanti buddies lead and drop a level into Barbarian... Will be interesting to see how that goes on a 10 Str halfling with a rapier...

[666bender]

mostly, it's a choice:
1 lvl of ranger or barbarian or 1-4 lvl of fighter,
you gain more than you loose.