Busy with work, so I might have enough time to properly delve into this.
2 of my players out of 5 are having troubles meeting every week. One is every other, and one hasn't played in a while due to work. I'm trying to think of something that she might take interest.
She's played a life oracle once before but I noticed she liked doing damage or rather she liked kicking butt a bit more than she realized.
Game info- 2 players should would be subbing in for sword/board fighter with tons of shield feats/ 2wf and a barbarian. Lands of linnorm. 20 pt build. Other party members as follows cleric, witch, and ranger (switch hitter). Core, apg, uc, and um allowed.
Her opinion is she'll play whatever fits. Her personality is quiet, logical, and very sweet.
So hopefully someone can point me in a right direction. Thanks guys.
My wife has a similar personality, and likes playing characters that kick but. I designed a fighter for her (simple to play, especially since my wife is dyslexic and doesn't read the rule books). She uses a leucerne hammer to be able to hit from far away and use combat maneuvers without fear of attack of opportunities. That 1d12 damage is fantastic. Plus a backup longsword in case she has to fight close up.
On top of that, she said she wanted a wolf companion, so I gave her Handle Animal skill points and started her off with a wolf that can attack.
Meanwhile, I designed a buffer wizard that plays backup to her fighter. My wizard buffs her whenever possible to make her more powerful - and it puts her in the spotlight so even though she doesn't know the rules very well, she's praised for what her character can do.
She's really enjoying this campaign.
I was thinking of a monk build that did the same kinda stuff but it had an overwhelming feel to it. I might just go straight fighter with a few cool moves. I was hoping to see a hybrid type caster type eg inquistor, battle oracle, etc. I haven't played either but again might be a bit much.
I have a very, very good Elven Paladin (Oath of Vengeance) designed for a female player. She's equally adept with the Elven curve blade, a reach weapon or the longbow and most importantly takes full advantage of the Lay on Hands ability by taking Fey Foundling and Extra LoH feats as well as Greater and Ultimate Mercy and making use of the Elven favored class option.
She deals solid damage in melee or at range, has some excellent spells (though not too many), is almost unkillable due to immunities and swift self-heals and provides other buffs/benefits for the party that don't require much thought or action on her part, like auras. I suppose all that would matter is whether or not she's the 'paladin type' and whether or not your GM is a jerk when it comes to Pallys.
We're probably going to use her in our upcoming Rise of the Runelords campaign... she'll be from a village that was wiped out by marauding giants and has sworn vengeance on they or whomever was responsible. Let me know if you're interested. It really is a great character.
@ Story archer..... Sounds good. I'm the gm and I love paladins. Shoot it at me and I'll take alook at it.
@ jiggy. Not sure of the source "blood of angels" you sited. Concept sounds good, but not sure if she would dig the burned hands thing, but with ice trolls being part.of the theme for the campaign major butt kicking sounds very doable.
Thanks guys for all the input so far.
Level 10 is what level she'll be at. Campaign is there almost 11.
@ Story archer..... Sounds good. I'm the gm and I love paladins. Shoot it at me and I'll take alook at it.
Sent.
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That high level? Much butt kicking can indeed commence!
The sword/shield fighter with TWF and Shield chain feats does incredible damage in my group and also has the best AC.
His feats look like this (he was a human, so copying as is)
Str 15 (+1 at level 4)
Dex 15+2 (+1 at level 8)
Con 14
Int 7
Wis 12
Cha 13
1h: Power Attack (can replace with Saving Shield if she wants to help the party out)
1g: Two-Weapon Fighting
1b: Improved Shield Bash
2b: Weapon Focus: Shield, Heavy
3g: Weapon Focus: longsword
4b: Weapon Spec: Longsword
5g: Weapon Spec: Shield, Heavy (Weapon Training Heavy Blades 1)
6b: Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
7g: Shield Slam
8g: Greater Weapon Focus (long sword)
9g: Improved Crit (longsword) (WT Heavy Blades 2, Close 1)
10b: Greater Weapon Focus (shield, heavy)
Has a great AC, 4 attacks a round, and next level will be even more accurate with the heavy shield thanks to Shield Master.
Sounds like personality wise, it sounds like she may prefer a similar ranger build; can do the shield based WTF like a fighter and gets the benefit of a combat pet, if you think she'd like that.
Str 14
Dex 14+2 (+1 at level 4)
Con 14
Int 12
Wis 13 (+1 at level 4)
Cha 10
(optional, drop the Cha to 8 to make Dex 15+2)
1h: Power Attack or Saving Shield
1g: Improved Shield Bash
2b: Shield Slam
3g: Two-Weapon Fighting
5g: Boon Companion (so the pet is now at full power)
6b: Shield Master
7g: Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
9g: Power Attack, Saving Shield, or Weapon Focus (shield)
Missing the Weapon Specialization and Weapon Training, but she'd get spells (Lead Blades ftw), already have Shield Master, and a fully powered level 10 pet that just wants a +1 Amulet of Mighty Fists (or something else to bypass DR). For fun if she's a human or half-elf, consider Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Sawtooth Sabre) assuming that wouldn't be too weird in your game world. It effectively adds +2 to the primary weapon attacks when full attacking.
An grenadier alchemist can be fun, too. Infusions allow her extracts to be usable by others. Quick stats
Magus or Achemists (with infusion discovery) are also good potential sources of utility and awesome fun. Good luck!
Sincerely,
BPC
@ MacFetus--- roflmao. Nice.
@ BPC--- Hmm. I heard the shield fighter was an interesting build. Full companion is another nice aspect.
Thanks for input.
How well does she know the rules?
Some of those builds may be a bit much for someone that doesn't know the rules very well.
If she doesn't know the rules real well, ranger archer can give a good intro to alot of the skills and some tactics. The difficult part is the build and you could help with that.
Then she just sneaks, maneuvers, and shoots.
Has a few spells, but not enough to get overwhelmed.
Can have a pretty decent animal companion to protect the archer. So can learn about basic melee while operting that.
Concept wise she's good. She can follow a story and can figure a path to unfold the story of game. She has a hard time getting people to listen to her observations and ideas on what to do.
Mechanically she's about as green as you can get. She played a life oracle well because she was able to put the " I kill it" mindset to the side and actually play with her brains. As a sidenote, she was on par for observing the clues that were unfolding to reveal the plot. She just didn't have the know how to put it in game terms for the other players to follow her.
She did like the healing aspect, but she surprisingly like being the butt kicker her last character was turning into.
Ya I had a cool grappling tripping earth embrace fighting style monk against giants since they are the themed mob in my game, but too many Damn options in how to attack, etc. Wanted a simple enough character type that could give her a chance to kick butt. Also to fill in for the barbarian and fighter who have been missing games more frequently than usual.
I think a Lorewarden Fighter archetype might fit. Kicks butt, uses brains.
Paladins are super fun and very versatile.
I think Rangers make one of the best intro classes for green players. They have a lot of skills, so new players can try to do different things. Also, a lot of their class skills are the kind of skills that get used a lot, like Perception, Stealth, and Survival, a variety of Knowledge skills (dungeoneering, geography, nature), and some good mobility skills, like Climb, Ride, and Swim. They even have enough skill points to select some "non-optimized" choices, like Craft soufles or Profession sailor.
The favored enemy can be used flavorfully, tactically, or even ignored.
The bonus feats are nice. They can help provide some focus, while allowing her regular feats to be used for a variety of uses.
The introduction to spells is nice and slow, and teaches her how to prepare for different kinds of situations. The ranger has a lot of swift action, short term buff spells, and these can really help her shine without "wasting" a round casting spells.
Hunter's Bond can be a fun way to learn about teamwork, either with an animal companion or with your fellow party members.
Excellent points on all occasions.
Paladin, ranger, and fighter. Might go paladin since that might be the closest to her life oracle. Like the ranger concepts offered up tho. Grrrr. Tough call.
Look at a fighter with archer archtype. Archer is very easy to play and if she has good Str/dex she can lay down the damage with a strength bow. Also by the time she is lv 6 she can threaten people with the bow within 5 feet of her and at lv 9 she would have a 15' threat area with the bow for attacks of opportunity. (Snap shot and Improved Snap Shot)
A archer almost always gets to take a full attack action and as such they get to take advantage of all the extra attacks they get. If she likes laying down the damage this is a good option for her.
Some people like the ranger for an archer but I prefer the fighter. A ranger can get favorite enemy bonus sure and if they max out one type of enemy they can be +10 to hit/damage vs it and +2 for 4 other types. A fighter between weapon specialization, greater weapon specialization and weapon training for the bow would end up by lv 17 with a constant +9 damage vs everything. Also because of all the bonus feats from fighter you can branch out eventually into some other areas if you want.
The downside of the fighter though is the lower skill points, and lack of magic. But overall I rather have the fighter.
The paladin provides a lot of versatility. Healing, Face, Tank.
If she likes archery, a Small mounted archer might be a fun option. Her divine bond mount could move and she could get a full attack off. Pretty nifty. Because you can smite ranged, too. Halflings get +2 Dex and Cha, and Str won't be as needed with smites.
The paladin provides a lot of versatility. Healing, Face, Tank.
If she likes archery, a Small mounted archer might be a fun option. Her divine bond mount could move and she could get a full attack off. Pretty nifty. Because you can smite ranged, too. Halflings get +2 Dex and Cha, and Str won't be as needed with smites.
The problem with that is you are a small character so you use small weapons which equates to less damage. Halflings also get -2 Str which equates to less damage. Smite is good but it is more of a burst damage remember you get very few of those. As for the mount, while it can be nice to be able to move around, one of the big advantages of the archer is the fact that they NORMALLY (and I do say normally) do not need to move around the battlefield. They let the tank and other melee types rush to the front to hold the line then they just pick a spot to lay down detestation.
Do not get me wrong there is nothing wrong with playing that if thats what you want. But in his initial opening question Aristen said that his wife liked kicking but. With that in mind I suggested the archer for a constant but kicking.
Also just saw one of the posts where you said players were lv 10 so yes Improved Snap Shot for the win combine that with combat reflexes and you have a dangerous combination.
And do not forget that Durable arrows are your friend (from the elf racial book) 1gp each and you have retrievable arrows that you can reuse after a fight. Helps you avoid the need to carry around 200+ arrows lol.
True.
I forgot about the Cavalier, for what it's worth.
Archery is actually a really good option for rules-lite players. You generally don't have to worry about moving around in combat or being near things trying to hit you, so you generally don't have to worry about flanking, higher ground, attacks of opportunity, being disarmed or sundered, your speed, tracking your hit points, etc. etc.
Unless you're fighting other ranged combatants.
With the Vital Strike feat chain, you can even act as a relatively effective "counterspeller" by readying an action to shoot when an opponent casts.
I am quoting Ravingdork from another post, I just do not know how to link the post.
"Essentially, archers are powerful because there is so much content out there for them, and absolutely all of it stacks and synergizes well with itself.
For Attack Rolls:
Point Blank Shot
Weapon Focus
Greater Weapon Focus
Up to a +5 enhancement
Weapon Training
Gloves of Dueling
Greater Bracers of Archery
Dexterity (which is worth noting because it is also terrific at helping several other aspects of your character)
Rapid Shot (more attacks = more likely to hit)
Snap Shot line of feats (again, more attacks)
For Damage Rolls:
Point Blank Shot
Weapon Specialization
Greater Weapon Specialization
Up to a +5 enhancement
Weapon Training
Gloves of Dueling
Greater Bracers of Archery
Strength (other ranged weapons simply don't allow this)
Rapid Shot (more attacks = more damage)
Snap Shot line of feats (again, more attacks = more damage)
Combat Reflexes (for use with Snap Shot to gain ~10 more attacks a round)
Manyshot (free extra damage!)
Clusterd Shots (free extra damage when facing DR)
Deadly Aim (just as good as Power Attack, but safer)
Improved Critical for 19-20/x3 critical multiplier. Not ideal, but when you're pumping out 15+ arrows per round, something's going to crit.
Hammer the Gap (not efficient, but still extra damage)
See what I mean? There are just SO many options that work well together for the archer. And they are easy to get too! I can fit all of the above on a single character by 15th-level, possibly earlier.
Conversely melee pouncers and similar builds have to jump through hoops to get anything similar, and are still less efficient since you can't always charge the same target every round (forcing you to charge between two different targets and lowering your DPR)."
By playing an archer as a fighter you have access to the extra feats to maximize the potential.
Don't forget Vital Strike, Improved Vital Strike, and Greater Vital Strike for those times you cannot get a full round attack off. They also work well with your non-ranged weapons.
There are also some nifty ranger spells that help with ranged combat, like aspect of the hawk, gravity bow, hunter's howl, arrow eruption, instant enemy, venomous bolt, bow spirit. I personally like the swift action buffs. Spell Compendium had a 2nd level 3.5 spell called Swift Haste or something. Swift action to cast, haste self for 1d4 rounds.
I like having rules-lite players try archery due to how successful they can be. My only issue is I have another new player playing a dwarf switch hitter ranger who shoots things dead all the time. I don't want to steal his thunder. Make sense?
Although most games have multiple melee combatants, I guess multiple archers wouldn't be too bad. It would drive me nutz as GM. LOL.
I saw Ravingdork's post on archers and I'd agree that it is very rookie player friendly.
I wanted to try the gunslinger out, but saw many posts that it was lacking.
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My wife plays as well and she has been enjoying playing a monk a lot and is thinking of a rogue next for carrion crown. Both are good solid characters that would fit with the quiet, logical folk. As well both can be built to follow an archery path. Rogue also fits with her being able to problem solve, but not quite vocal. Monk also fits there as a monk may know what to do, but not how to speak their mind due to their training. So if she wants to have a good concept I'd try one if those two.
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My wife ... is thinking of a rogue next for carrion crown...
Completely off track, but I wouldn't recommend a rogue for Carrion Crown unless you have a large group that has all the other roles completely filled. We are in the midst of it right now and the rogue and archer are both always on the verge of death and having no fun because they can't do much of anything with what we have been encountering.
My wife ... is thinking of a rogue next for carrion crown...Completely off track, but I wouldn't recommend a rogue for Carrion Crown unless you have a large group that has all the other roles completely filled. We are in the midst of it right now and the rogue and archer are both always on the verge of death and having no fun because they can't do much of anything with what we have been encountering.
Ouch we are just about to start that also and my wife was going to play a catfolk rogue lol.
You are remembering that undead can be crited and sneak attacked right? They are no longer immune to it like they were in 3.5.
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Ouch we are just about to start that also and my wife was going to play a catfolk rogue lol.You are remembering that undead can be crited and sneak attacked right? They are no longer immune to it like they were in 3.5.
They have almost all been the incorporeal undead and haunts that still can not be sneak attacked. Plus we don't have hardly any magic weapons. The rogue was trying to splash with holy water and the ranger archer has a +1 dagger or short sword (can't remember for sure) that hasn't been accomplishing very much.
When my g/f joined our RotRL (Hook Mountain Massacre) campaign this summer we statted Shalelu Andosan out as a PC - more specifically an archer ranger X/fighter 2 with an appropriately chosen favored enemy. Just as important as the crazy amounts of damage she was doing was the fact that she had a ready made backstory and connection to the campaign. Also, she really enjoys the RP aspect so we all made more of an effort to get back into character instead of purely focusing on tactics.
Paladin archers can actually be really nasty customers, even when not smiting. They have spells to help supplement themselves and the group, their divine bond (a mount is fantastic for an archer, and the weapon bond is always handy) is useful, and they have a few other very nice abilities. They can get the main archery feats easily, and then turn around and smite things when they find something worth the extra damage.
They won't be as good as a fighter when not smiting, but they'll be better when they are smiting. Not an issue against the mooks, who usually die in a round or two regardless of who is attacking them, and they smite the big guys anyways. Very good combination.
*Edit* This would also give her more things to do in a round than just shoot, so she wouldn't be stepping on the toes of the switch-hitter too much (also has a different focus there; the switch-hitter can more easily go melee than she can). Though yes, this would certainly make you have to tailor fights to be more difficult on the ranged so they don't just blow everything up immediately.
If you have faiths of purity and go paladin, use the codes within for fleshing out her character more.
Paladin of Shelyn for the win, by the way. Kick ass when necessary, kind and forgiving when possible. Ultra awesome.
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My wife ... is thinking of a rogue next for carrion crown...Completely off track, but I wouldn't recommend a rogue for Carrion Crown unless you have a large group that has all the other roles completely filled. We are in the midst of it right now and the rogue and archer are both always on the verge of death and having no fun because they can't do much of anything with what we have been encountering.Ouch we are just about to start that also and my wife was going to play a catfolk rogue lol.
You are remembering that undead can be crited and sneak attacked right? They are no longer immune to it like they were in 3.5.
Tghe first adventure is kind of rough for rogues because of incorporeal undead. It gets better after that, though. The ninja in our group is a very consistant damage dealer.
How about a sorcerer? She will need help building it, and might need help picking spells, and I would reccomend making a spells sheet with just her spells (this helped my sister alot).
But she get's do deal lots of damage and get's to play a very pretty woman (this pulled my sister over the line).
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Mrs. Aristin76 sounds a lot like Mrs. Bell, who really enjoyed playing her pirate queen dual rapier wielding mobile fighter with critical feats in STAP.
Many attacks + high threat range + critical feats = condition stack and crazygonuts large numbers for damage. Players love grabbing a double handful of dice to roll their attacks and damage.
I'm GMing a party with an archery ranger, an archer cleric, a cavalier/fighter that occasionally uses a bow, and a rogue/witch. So 2.5 archers, plus some ranged spells from the witch.