Magical Ethics in the real world

[Tiny Coffee Golem]

I had a random thought, as I am prone to, and I wanted to get some feedback on it. I have a lot of random thoughts that have no real bearing on the real world. Ex: What would I do the first week after I won the lottery? What if I could suddenly fly? What if I could suddenly teleport? How would world governments really act if we found out that Dolphins were really intergalactic travelers who all left because the world was about to be destroyed? Etc Etc Etc. I consider them thought exercises where I try to think outside the box. EX: Ok. I can fly, but if nobody else can I'll be locked up in a lab if anyone ever finds out. How could I really use the power without being caught and unpleasantly probed for the rest of my probably short life? Stuff like that.

Alright. That's a super wordy way of saying please stay on topic and understand it's purely a thought experiment.

Scenario: Imagine a parallel universe identical to our own where magic suddenly becomes known. Akin to the "out of the coffin" idea from trueblood. Magic has always been there, but for whatever reason it was underground. Now there's real magic in the real world. Worldbuild as you see fit with this concept.

Question: I'm really interested in all questions/discussion regarding ethics with magic in the real world.

Lets start with Fidelity and branch out from there. If you're married and loyal would it be considered cheating if you were not in your own body? There's about 101 ways to do that, but for sake of argument it's a cloned body (or something equally benign with all the kinks worked out) that you posses for awhile. Personally, I can see an entire industry built around possessing temporary bodies to do all kinds of crazy stuff with no real danger to the original body.

Body Modification: How much is too much? Maybe I want wings.

I'll add more as I think of them and I'd encourage you to do the same. Try to categorize them for sake of future discussions. I imagine their'll be several continuous conversations. Best to be able to easily indicate which one people are referring to.

[Debnor]

Ethics:
Well, the first question that has to be asked is what types of magic? Arcane, Divine, or both? Because if Divine magic exists, then it is demonstrable that at least one Deity exists, and that just sets up all sorts of pandemonium (possibly literally, if you break down the word), considering that a measurable chunk of the world's population is monotheistic. Suddenly, questions of the nature of good and evil, the soul, and the afterlife become much more concrete, and actually matter to people.

Civics:
If magic exists, then governments are going to do their utmost to utilize it, control it, and find counters to it. The nature of espionage changes utterly with reliable divination and enchantment magic. And that would be one of the next generations of warfare - magic likely can't outrange an ICBM, but it might be able to counter one, and in any case would make a vast difference on the tactical scale of combat - all of the schools of magic will have their uses.

General:
The biggest question, of course, is how common is magic? Is it something that anyone can learn, with sufficient effort and resources? Will MIT become MIT&M? Will Isaac Bonewitz become the first Archmage of the U.S. (look it up, you whippersnappers)? Or is there some (currently) unknown factor that controls whether an individual has access to magical potential? If the latter, expect a shadow war as governments, corporations, and religions vie for the existing pool of magical talent, and start up screening tests in schools and other venues to identify talent early.

That's all for now, but this is one of those big, big topics that can fuel never-ending discussions.

[Tiny Coffee Golem]

Let’s say divine magic exists, but the nature of the gods themselves is still mysterious. You can cast spells with “faith,” but continue to otherwise continue to be unable to prove the divine. Sure you can summon a celestial with faith, but so can an atheist wizard. Etc. Justify as needed.

[Tiny Coffee Golem]

Magic is a combination of skill and innate aptitude. Just because you can theoretically learn magic doesn’t mean you have the mysterious unknown spark required to actually cast. *mumble mumble* mysterious ways and all that

[Bodhizen]

Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:

Scenario: Imagine a parallel universe identical to our own where magic suddenly becomes known. Akin to the "out of the coffin" idea from trueblood. Magic has always been there, but for whatever reason it was underground. Now there's real magic in the real world. Worldbuild as you see fit with this concept.

Question: I'm really interested in all questions/discussion regarding ethics with magic in the real world.

Lets start with Fidelity and branch out from there. If you're married and loyal would it be considered cheating if you were not in your own body? There's about 101 ways to do that, but for sake of argument it's a cloned body (or something equally benign with all the kinks worked out) that you posses for awhile. Personally, I can see an entire industry built around possessing temporary bodies to do all kinds of crazy stuff with no real danger to the original body.

Body Modification: How much is too much? Maybe I want wings.

I'll add more as I think of them and I'd encourage you to do the same. Try to categorize them for sake of future discussions. I imagine their'll be several continuous conversations. Best to be able to easily indicate which one people are referring to.

Fidelity:

If you're specifically on the topic of ethics, regardless of whether you're in your own body or not, an ethical approach to fidelity would be that if you're going to be faithful, you're not going to find "work around" ways to bend or break your commitments. Doing so would be unethical. Therefore, from an ethical standpoint, it would be considered cheating if you were to have relations with another person while not in your own body.

Body Modification:

Body modification is not an unethical behaviour now, and so I do not think that the inclusion of magic would prohibit magical body modification.

Divinity:

Should you be able to summon a divine servitor such as a celestial, you can certainly have a reasonable debate on the exact nature of the divine. They may be able to provide you better answers and guidance, though this is not explicitly the case. Honestly, they may know no more than you do.

Best wishes!

[DrunkInRlyeh]

Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:

Lets start with Fidelity and branch out from there. If you're married and loyal would it be considered cheating if you were not in your own body? There's about 101 ways to do that, but for sake of argument it's a cloned body (or something equally benign with all the kinks worked out) that you posses for awhile. Personally, I can see an entire industry built around possessing temporary bodies to do all kinds of crazy stuff with no real danger to the original body.

Body Modification: How much is too much? Maybe I want wings.

I think the definition of fidelity changes a bit (and may have already in our mundane world). Cheating on someone isn't just boning someone/thing else; it's a violation of the (spoken or unspoken) agreement about parameters in a relationship. People have open marriages IRL, and I wouldn't consider that being unfaithful so long as their behavior remained within agreed-upon parameters.

So, is possessing another body and getting it on with a stranger cheating? Only if you partner isn't cool with it. If you're defining it strictly as "anything extramarital," I'd say it counts as cheating because a lot of spells involve souls, so there must be some baseline "self" that carries over.

As far as body modification goes, we already accept variation based on personal taste as to how much is "too much." It might be fun to throw polymorph parties, though...