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Can Vital Strike be used to increase damage during a sunder attempt?
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Can Vital Strike be used to increase damage during a sunder attempt?
Yes. Vital Strike is used in conjunction with an Attack Action; a Sunder attempt can be done with an attack action, and replaces a normal melee attack.
Keep in mind that if you use Vital Strike with the Sunder attempt, you are only allotted a single attack, not the normal multiple/iterative attacks you would get with a Full Attack Option and substituting all the attacks with Sunder attempts. While this gives somewhat more freedom, remember that Vital Strikes and Full Attack Options are mutually exclusive, and that while Sunder can be used with both, it does not mean that the subjects Sunder can combine with can also.
In other words: Yes, but only one attack per round. You apply Vital Strike benefits as normal to your Sunder attempt in terms of item damage.
Thank you, Darksol.
That makes sense and is how I thought it would work, but wanted to be sure before using it in the game.
Yes. Vital Strike is used in conjunction with an Attack Action; a Sunder attempt can be done with an attack action, and replaces a normal melee attack.
While they both use the same action, given that the Sunder attempt replaces the attack, you're unlikely to get the extra weapon dice from Vital Strike on the sunder attempt.
Keep in mind that if you use Vital Strike with the Sunder attempt, you are only allotted a single attack, not the normal multiple/iterative attacks you would get with a Full Attack Option and substituting all the attacks with Sunder attempts.
You can't use Sunder with a full-attack unless you have a special ability that allows this. (Monk maneuver master is the only one I can think of)
Sunder: "You can attempt to sunder an item held or worn by your opponent as part of an attack action in place of a melee attack."
The attack action is a specific standard action. You cannot make iterative sunder attempts for the same reasons you can't make iterative vital strikes.
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What Grick said.
Vital Strike and sunder can't really be combined given that they both "replace" the same action. The rules don't typically favor these kinds of combos if they're left ambiguous.
As for flavor, objects don't typically have any vitals to strike.
Edit: But then again, neither do constructs, which this feat works on, so ignore that last bit.
Yes it may.
Can I make multiple sunder attempts in one round as part of a full-attack action? The sunder text says that I can make sunder attempts in place of melee attacks in an attack action, which is not technically a full-attack action.
Yes you can. The text is a little unclear here. Instead of saying "as part of an attack action in place of a melee attack", the text should read "in place of a melee attack", which would allow you to make multiple attempts in one round, or even make a sunder attempt as an attack of opportunity.
—Jason Bulmahn, 11/30/12
Yes it may.
After the FAQ it can now be used with a full-attack, but that doesn't really address the sunder attack replacing the attack that vital strike would modify.
I think it does. Sunder can now be used any time a melee attack is made, just like disarm or trip. That means you can combine it with Vital Strike since it is no longer explicitly an "attack action."
That means you can combine it with Vital Strike since it is no longer explicitly an "attack action."
But even before it was still an attack action. In order to try using it with vital strike you would still have to use an attack action, so removing the action type requirement didn't change anything in regards to vital strike.
Basically, the reason you couldn't benefit from VS and sunder before the FAQ wasn't because of the action, it was because sunder replaces the attack.
Now, post-FAQ, sunder still replaces the attack. So if it didn't work before, it still doesn't. And if it did work before, it still does.
Ignoring the FAQ for a bit (no offense to its ruling or anything like that, but for simplicity purposes), the RAW for Sunder is that it is part of an attack action to make the attack at an item or weapon held/worn.
A Vital Strike is an attack action, a specific type of standard action (as per the clarification made).
See the bolded parts and how they correlate? Vital Strike is an attack action. Sunder is a maneuver that is done as part of an attack action instead of a normal attack that is made.
There is no RAW for Vital Strike that says it cannot be used as a maneuver (since the feat adjusts the Attack Action and only works for Attack Actions, which Sunder can be used as a part of), nor is there any RAW that would imply such. Sunder is part of a given attack action that modifies it to specifically damage weapons and items. Vital Strike adjusts the attack action (and only the attack action) to deal extra precision damage dice. They can be used at the same time to deal that extra bit of damage to an item.
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i hit faq. you can too.
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I'm interested in this answer as well, FAQed.