They've said on other threads that they make absolutely 0 profit on shipping costs. They charge you what they are charged to ship it.
-S
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It's the rest of the world which is isolated from us.
Not true Steve, we are quite close here in NZ! :)
There's significantly cheaper shipping options if it is just books you are buying (or similar, getting the Bestiary Box or Beginner Box, for example).
That said, the shipping costs from the US are outrageous, which is why I try not to get things shipped from there.
PM me if you are that interested.
It's the rest of the world which is isolated from us.
We are close to Australia too! But shipping costs are even worse down here!
Oh say Hi to my mate Dougie who flies there during the summer ;-)
Sorry Vic, Its WORSE than that, its outrageous.
For ONE copy of the CRB.
Subtotal (1 Item) $49.99
Shipping & Handling $52.35
Order Total $102.34
Now it might well be costing you that much, but I think you might need to look at some alternative options.
The SAME transation through Amazon.com
Items: AUD 31.93
Shipping & Handling: AUD 10.12
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----
Total Before Tax: AUD 42.05
Estimated Tax To Be Collected: AUD 0.00
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----
Order Total: AUD 42.05
For an extra $6 I can get it via expedited shipping, of for $30 extra I can get it priority international shipping and have it here on Monday. Still way cheaper.
Chief Technical Officer
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Amazon has warehouses all over the globe. We don't. They also often lose money on shipping. We can't afford to. If it makes more sense for you to buy from them, please do... but don't expect us to lose money trying to compete with them on an uneven playing field; that's not going to happen.
The Core Rulebook weighs 4.2 pounds, and that's not including the weight of the packaging. Since the USPS did away with surface mail several years ago, there is no cheaper way to ship a 4-pound parcel overseas than International Priority.
We look for alternatives all the time—there are literally no cheaper shipping methods for a 4.2+-pound package from the US to Australia. NONE.
I'd be very happy to be proven wrong on that...
I wouldn't expect, nor even request, for you guys to lose money.
That wouldn't be very sensible at all.
The problem is that the guys here have pointed out the shipping is $50, and I am simply making the point that $50 is a pretty common figure for routine goods.
The thing that really annoys me about the shipping cost is that it is quite often more than the price of the actual goods themselves. Someone did the hard work of designing and producing a good or service, and the USPS seem to be the ones making all the margin in the transaction.
I am fairly certain that you guys probably are looking for ways to bring down costs and provide (sustainable) lower cost logistic solutions, hopefully one day an option to do so arises.
USPS seem to be a bit of a price gouge organisation, so certainly not blaming you guys.
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Postage used to be great. Now its just crazy.
Is it then worth looking at a distribution group here in Australia? I know you have non-exclusive distributors here in Australia. Perhaps an arrangement could be made. Hell I'd even set up a small company here to do exactly that if that would assist?
Perhaps, as I have suggested elsewhere, that we could submit "receipts" for subscriptions through stores so that we get the PDF as well.
There is certainly a decent fan base here in Australia. Its just a matter of know how many books are actually sold to people here.
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Unless its a sale at Paizo, or its something I can't get here at a FLGS, I purchase from Paizo. I also have my subscription through Paizo for most of their lines. The ONLY advantage to that is that I get the free PDF with it. I just wish there was a way to get the PDF and buy locally. This is what Paizo should look at (from a customer service perspective) for people outside of the United States.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
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As a counterpoint, shipping is no worse getting it from the US than it is getting it to the US. I have sent packages to friends in the US before and it is just as expensive. I sent a large box of Christmas presents to the US a couple of years ago and the shipping on that box was almost $150. Even sending something as simple as a portable external hard drive is $20 and that's a fraction of the weight of my Core Rulebook. I sent some CCG cards to Norway a few months ago and with the packaging it cost me $12.50. Just to send 24 cards in a box with some packing peanuts for insulation.
So you can all whinge and b*@$* and moan all you want but the fact is that shipping is expensive anywhere in the world and the only way to offset this shipping is to do what the big companies do (Amazon, Book Depository, etc...) and either have warehouses situated all over the globe and/or take a hit on shipping simple to move the numbers.
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Paizo did try a shipping center in Europe before. It didn't really work, to say mildly.
The Brütal Trüth is that 70-80% of RPG sales is US+Canada. The rest is half Europe, and half rest of the world. I hazard a guess that Paizo's sales look pretty much like that in percentages, making any overseas operations low priority.
And as much as I hate to point it out, when you think about it, $50 is a pretty good bargain for shipping, considering what you're getting for the money: "Hey; here's $50. Will you carry this book to the other side of the world for me?"
(I know, I know, that's not how it actually works. Still... think about it.)
I'm sure back in the 1800's when there was like one boat a month or something braving the Pacific ocean it might have been a good deal Feegle...
It seems to be the courier companies having a bit of a price gouge, Australia Post are pretty stingy too. The UK postal service is quite respectable (I buy various bits of work equipment from there) but the USPS is a bit of a rort. You'd think with the scale of their import/export there would be room to move. Asian prices are probably the best - then again the Chinese Govt ensures that mailed goods go for low low prices as their economy depends on it.
Sounds about right!
I'm sure back in the 1800's when there was like one boat a month or something braving the Pacific ocean it might have been a good deal Feegle...
Meh. I'll hold on to my sense of wonder and treat it as a miracle anyway. "What's that, Canada Post? You'll carry a letter across the country and leave it at someone's door for 65 cents? What an awesome deal!"
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There are also local distributors...
Unless I am getting bulk items, I buy locally and they save me based on the shipping to Australia, and they are fairly close to direct shipping from Paizo...
But if I am getting bulk items in one go then I order through the site.
It's not worth me being a subscriber due to shipping costs, its the only reason I'm not a subscriber.
If you want to know more about local shipping, PM me and I can give you the details.
Now there's a thought, an Electronic Only option for Intl customers... just sign us up for the PDF's, no need to send the book, and work out a sub plan that suits everyone.
And no matter how small we are, we are customers too.
I bet Paizo would love to find a solution - but try and piece together a business plan in which it works. I think it's a struggle. (Plus, this is ignoring the previous customer service problems they had when they had overseas distribution centres. I dont see how those can be addressed without imposing further costs either).
.I just dont see how it can work out economically (without massive volume a la Amazon - and even they often suffer inordinate delays with new releases). Even if it were possible to organise bulk shipping to some central location - the overheads involved in that are going to eat away at any shipping saving, I would guess. Plus there's the further issue that you're currently not paying GST nor tarriffs (unless you habitually place orders over $1000) and that would change if everyone's orders were collated - imposing a further markup of at least 15% to the eventual consumer.
South Australians come from a higher class of ancestor (no convicts here).
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I did the maths and changed my subscriptions, cutting back mot of them. I am happy to share my thoughts as I am a collector and have a fair bit of stuff from Paizo.
Buying a case of pathfinder minis and having it shipped here is still cheaper than buying from cheap online retailers in Australia even with the 70-120USD cost for post.
I keep my AP subscription to get the flat 15% discount and add bits and pieces that I want. The value of subscribing and getting pdfs are not worth it anymore. I have stopped buying the campaign and companion books and use pdf on a tablet. The comics are cheap and light to send. I am waiting to see how it comes packed from paizo to see if I will continue.
Things like gamemastery cards and map subscriptions are not worth it for me as I do not need the pdfs as I am not virtually driven for that. Preordering the maps and cards from book depository sees me receiving the item at my door for less than $10 an item!!! Trade off is I have to preorder and wait as I can not get it straight away.
I pick up the occassion PDF at 15% off but I tend to wait until Paizo has sales where my advantage discount stacks. That is the most cost effective way.
If I want hardcover books I preorder from book depository and purchase the PDF for the 9.99-15% which comes out cheaper that the amazon option and I get pdf. Only downside is the wait for hardcover.
The other upside is that book depository offer 5 or 10% discounts from time to time, more so before amazon bought them. Great for picking up older stuff I missed and makes preorders even cheaper!
Postage is high at Paizo. It is cheaper to have items sent from paizo to myus.com address and sent to me. The high cost and the use of USPS is disappointing. It takes weeks to get to me. Myus.com has a similar price postage and it arrives within a week and is sent via DHL or Fedex. My preference is DHL to my suburb as it arrives in perfect condition.
I appreciate the service from Paizo which is A++. But there are cheaper options for postage out there and the volume Paizo moves would be high as you look at the market share in the US alone.
That said, I understand that Paizo does not have to look at the shipping as the dominance in market share and product range grows. Folks are buying the stuff no matter the cost.
I'd never heard of myus.com, thanks. That might be useful to people worried about price. Any experience with having subscriptions sent via them? Are you saying its quicker than having things sent to you direct?
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Couldn't you get your product to commit a criminal offence and then it would get shipped to Australia for free?! Or doesn't that deal still exist?
Musings of a Kiwi.
Or just give it to your cousin in Auckland... he'll be moving over here in a few months.
Musings of an Aussie.
Too true. When they say that Syndey has about the population of NZ they actually literally mean it... :)
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I'd never heard of myus.com, thanks. That might be useful to people worried about price. Any experience with having subscriptions sent via them? Are you saying its quicker than having things sent to you direct?
Much quicker Steve. You pay paizo to send your subscription to a US address. They send it via DHL or Fedex. Thing to add is that there is a sign up fee.
Now for small packages (1-3 pounds not worth it). 4+ you start to save money particularly if you have multiple packages and stuff from other stores.
For those folks worried about money but not time, you SHOULD preorder from the book depository. Further to note, check the cost at both the US store and the UK store. I have found a bulk of the stuff is cheaper preordered from the UK store.
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Chief Technical Officer
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Myus.com has a similar price postage and it arrives within a week and is sent via DHL or Fedex.
We have quoted with both of those, and both were far, far worse than USPS Intl Priority.
For example, the quote for shipping a single Core Rulebook (a 5-pound parcel, 12"x9"x3") to Sydney via DHL is $128.70, for 4-day service. FedEx quotes $153.87 for the same.
(I did these just now as quick over-the-counter quotes with web discounts; if we did a deal for all of our international shipping business, that would shave off a few percent, but clearly that's far from enough to make them competitive.)
Can you give me an idea of the size and weight of parcels you've received, and what you were charged? Also, if you still have any boxes around that might display the actual postage paid, or the specific name of the service (i.e. "Global Express") that would be useful...
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In honesty, I purchase items and 'save' until I have a number of parcels. Most stuff we buy for home we get online so sharing such details from my purchase would not be of use. I get golf clubs, cloths and etc. I can comment that it is cost effective for me. As is having Paizo ship light packages directly to me with the generous -$10 off shipping.
Myus.com for the same package shipped to regional QLD via my myus.com service is:
http://www.myus.com/en/international-shipping-rates/?weight=7.3&pkgs=1& amp;dv=15&mbr=MyUs_PremiumUser&to=AU
Essentially 62.09 while paizo 52.35 but that is up to a week verses 3 weeks.
They have a calculator over a myus.com Vic.
I think my estimates might have been off slightly to which I am happy to recant. My experience as been to combine packages through myus is cheaper.
I really appreciate your comments here, I'm going to look into it further. In my case, the money is not significant, but the time matters a lot and I'm really struggling to see how it can be quicker to ship via myus.com rather than direct (generally I receive my parcels around a week and a but after I get my shipping email, convention time and snow season excluded). After all, paizo are still going to use USPS to get it to the US address aren't they?
Or are you comparing the cheapest, slowest postage method when ordering from paizo direct? (presuming that question isn't out of line - apologies if it's prying..) maybe there's a significant difference in transit times with the cheaper postage method.
Okay, thanks. That's about the time it takes me for a priority shipment from Paizo direct.
I'm too impatient to wait for things to build up and combine packages, but I'll look into it more and see how it pans out. Thanks for pointing out the option. :)
Ah that might be part of the disconnect I'm not getting. You're quoting priority above ($52.35). If you buy something big enough you have to have it sent priority (internationally, at least - not sure if that's a rule within the US). So if you're having a core rulebook sent to Australia you have no option but to spend $52.35, but it will take (from my experience) around a week to get here - I dont think your three week shipping time would apply in that case (once you're up at the $52.35 level, you're using priority mail whether you asked to or not). I think in that case, myus.com is going to be a little more expensive and take a little longer.
If I look at one AP instalment on its own - it costs me $37.15 to have it sent priority (which takes around a week to get here) or $6.54 standard (which I've never tried, but based on your times above is likely to be more like three weeks). I could understand the $6.54 option speeding up if it went to a US address first and then got couriered here - but I dont think it's going to match the priority mail direct time (and isnt going to be cost effective, I would think).
In my case, my monthly shipments are nearly all large enough that priority is my only choice anyhow. So I dont think myus.com is going to work out for me after all. (Also, at that level - extra books are essentially 'shipped free'. So a CRB and one AP costs the same $52.35 as the CRB on its own).
Sorry for the derail - I think your solution is likely to be cost effective for several large shipments (particularly if one is happy to wait to pool them with other packages). It may also be quicker if you're using one of Paizo's slower mail options.
I hear digital PDF's ship cheap. ;-)
The point that frustrates me is that when an order goes over a certain weight, you have no choice but priority shipping. However that would be OK if it came in the one box, but my last order came is 3 (one I'm still waiting on). How is that fair?
It's presumably cheaper that way. As I understand things, price is the major constraint the paizo computer tries to minimize when determining how to ship products. I don't have any experience with USPS, but I've certainly seen situations with other freight companies wher (due to volume thresholds) its better to break apart a shipment than send it all in one go.
The point that frustrates me is that when an order goes over a certain weight, you have no choice but priority shipping. However that would be OK if it came in the one box, but my last order came is 3 (one I'm still waiting on). How is that fair?
If our system splits an order into multiple boxes, one of two things was going on.
1) It really was cheaper this way - Internationally, this (generally) involves splitting things into Flat Rate boxes, which are not based on weight.
2) We don't have boxes that large - In particular, this happened last month with pathfinder Battles subscribers, because of the sheer size of a case of miniatures. A lot of orders were split into two or more boxes because that was the only way we could ship it at all.
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Chief Technical Officer
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Then why have it that as soon as it goes over a certain dollar amount or weight we HAVE NO CHOICE which method it goes. I would personally wait 20 days to get something than pay what it did for my last order in postage.
In May 2007, the USPS discontinued Surface Mail. Prior to that date, you could opt to pay less for "slow boat" international service, but that's no longer an option. Once your parcel hits four pounds, the cheapest available method is International Priority.