Any advice for a TWF Cavalier?
I'm hoping to use a Dwarf since they get an excellent boost to the Challenge damage. To that end, Charisma based Orders are probably not a good idea, but then few of them seem to lend themselves towards TWF anyway.
I have a lumberjack theme to work with. Suggestions?
Can you give some more information? What do you mean by a lumberjack theme? Are you actually playing guys in flannel, and running around the woods? I'm not trying to be too snarky. Just trying to get more details to help.
I'm also a bit confused on what boost to the challenge damage a dwarf brings to the table. I thought Challenge damage only adds the Cavalier's level to the damage roll.
As for TWF, I'm actually playing a TWF Cavalier in CoT. I thought I'd see if I can use the two attacks to boost damage while challenging. So far it has been pretty fun.
I don't think anyone has posted a guide on Cavaliers yet, but there are many tidbits you can pull from guides that have been posted on the Fighter and the Paladin. IF you're trying to optimize, TWF may not be your best route. It requires a lot of feats, and more wealth for two weapons.
Check out this profile.
Sword and Shield TWF works best.
Order of the Shield is best for it as well.
1. Grants an ATTACK bonus to your challenge, Helping all attacks hit
2. Grants an Improved Standstill class ability (to stop foes moving.away. You need to pin them to full attack them)
Bodyguard and Stratagist are great because they both grant ways to get extra moves or immediate action charges. (So you can close when it's not your turn and full attack when it is)
Use your teamwork feats to get coordinated charge. This is likea group pile on
Get that shirt that grants an extra move action 1/day.
There are a few ALMOST complete Cavalier guides, but none that are actually complete.
By Lumberjack theme, I suppose I should have given more info: A burly bearded dwarf with a pair of axes (dwarven waraxe and a handaxe) riding either a Bear or an Aurochs [read: Ox] painted blue.
(It's just a character theme. One member of the group has a witch based off Santa Claus, a jolly old Elf who cackles in ho-ho-ho's and then casts sleet storm.)
Books: Core, APG, UM, UC, ARG, and probably UE when its out.
In ARG, the Dwarf gets the favoured class ability to add 1/2 damage to the challenge, meaning he/she gets 1.5 times level on a challenge as opposed to just straight level. Level two deals 3 damage, level 4 deals six and so on.
I like the sword and shield idea (or in this case Ax and shield.) I think I can do that if I drop all mounted feats.
How many feats do I need to dedicate to using the mount? Do I need to dedicate any? I don't intend to use the mount as a mount, but rather as a way to speed up the dwarf, get into a flanking position, and then share one of those flanking Teamwork feats.
I suppose instead with the sword and shield I can take that mounted shield feat and just stay on my mount. (Actually, looking at the requirements, that would take a LONG time for a Dwarf to get.)
Maybe a shield is not as good?
Feats: TWF (obv), Precise Strike (Bonus Teamwork), Power attack
Eventually: ITWF
Probably: Mounted Combat, Trample (if using the Aurochs) otherwise I'm not sure.
I was thinking the Order of the Seal would be a good one to use. You aim to be full-attacking... and then you get a free bull rush or trip! (Although it seems as though this Order was hastily edited. It mentions an Object as a thing to guard, but doesn't give an option for the object. Its 15th level ability implies you don't need to move in the fluff, but doesn't say so in the text.)
TWF sucks a -2 to hit. Unlike Paladins, Rangers and Fighters, Cavs get 0 class bonuses to hit.
Order of the Shield and Sword are the only 2 that get a To hit bonus.
And with 7-9attacks, you WANT a to hit bonus.
You need to be mounted for order of sword to work.
Order of the shield can be mounted or on foot and gives you the awesome
power to pin your foe AND do damage via stand still.
Forget mounted feats for this build. Use your horse to get into combat then fast dismount and go to town
Your horse gets feats. Use it for a flank partner and a trip buddy by giving it improved overrun and charge through.
I'll be back with more later.
By Lumberjack theme, I suppose I should have given more info: A burly bearded dwarf with a pair of axes (dwarven waraxe and a handaxe) riding either a Bear or an Aurochs [read: Ox] painted blue.
That actually sounds fun.
In ARG, the Dwarf gets the favoured class ability to add 1/2 damage to the challenge, meaning he/she gets 1.5 times level on a challenge as opposed to just straight level. Level two deals 3 damage, level 4 deals six and so on.
Nice. I still haven't read through everything in the ARG.
I like the sword and shield idea (or in this case Ax and shield.) I think I can do that if I drop all mounted feats.
As Aden mentioned too, I'd consider dropping the mounted feats. With the tactics you described earlier, whichever mount you go with will be more of a flank / combat buddy.
I also second the ax and shield build. The cavalier I'm playing is actaully a sword and shield twf. I went with the Order of the Dragon, because I like the bonuses I can give the rest of the party. The -2 to hit sucks, but when the opponents AC is high, I just use one attack, and keep the shield for AC only. If you play long enough, you'll get Shield Master and the -2 won't apply.
I'll most likely use a feat selection like this;
1st = TW Fighting, Power Attack
3rd = Improved Shield Bash
5th = Double Slice
6th = Shield Focus
7th = Shield Slam
9th = Improved Critical
11th = Shield Master
12th = Critical Focus
13th = Staggering Critical
Order of the Dragon also get's a to hit bonus - you count as your own ally.
Order of the Dragon also get's a to hit bonus - you count as your own ally.
Are you positive on that one? I don't necessarily have a problem with it. We just weren't reading the rule that way. You'd think it would say something like "you and your allies gain . . "
Order of the Dragon also get's a to hit bonus - you count as your own ally.Are you positive on that one? I don't necessarily have a problem with it. We just weren't reading the rule that way. You'd think it would say something like "you and your allies gain . . "
I think the writer intended a difference between "your allies" (doesn't include you?) and "all allies within x feet" (definitely includes you). RAW it seems that the Oot Dragon Cavalier is his own ally but RAI I would say not. Clearly this is in need of an errata but until then I would houserule that the Order of the Dragon Cavalier's Challenge bonus doesn't apply to himself.
TWF DOES suck a lot of the To Hit bonuses out of you, doesn't it?
Add in power attack and OY!
I wouldn't say the Cavalier has 0 bonuses though...
1. While mounted, you get a +1 to hit against creatures your mount is larger than.
2. You BYOFB (bring your own flank buddy) giving a +2 to hit once you jump through the hoops. Outflank can give bonuses to hit. You trade out the bonus above, but you don't always get that bonus.
Order of the Seal has the hidden bonus of adding the free Trip. It's not a guarantee, but it can give you the +4 prone bonus. You don't even need to make any hits with your full attack to get the bonus maneuver. Depending on what your location (or Object) is, directly defending it gives a +2 bonus to hit. If you are on a quest to FIND your location, then just about anything could be considered defending it. (Batman voice: "WHERE IS IT?" *smack* *pow* *gdursh*). That 8th level ability is just plain boring, though. (Although, with Dwarf racial bonuses, you'll probably never be outmaneuvered with those maneuvers.)
Unfortunately for Order of the Shield, the Beast Rider is not heavy armor proficient. That 2nd level ability is as blank as Order of the Seal's 8th.
Order of the Dragon is really a VERY good order, pairs well with the Honor Guard's free Body Guard feat, and at 8th can give free movement to allow Flank buddies to get into position or free bonuses to hit. (Incidentally I also think that you wouldn't get the bonus to hit, but your mount would!)
As a Dwarf, I'm feat shy, and I do want to pick up the additional attacks as soon as possible.
1: TWF, 3: Improved Shield Bash, 5: Power Attack, 6: Improved TWF 7: Shield Focus, 9: Shield Slam
Without working with a Shield and riding an Aurochs
1: TWF, 3: Power Attack, 5: Mounted Combat, 6: Improved TWF, 7: Trample, 9: Combat Reflexes
The Trample feat and the Trample (ex) monster ability look like they pair VERY well together against groups of smaller creatures.
However I won't actually be able to RIDE that beastie until 7th. Unless I stick with a Horse, I've got a dead feat at 5th.
Without using a Shield and riding a Bear
1: TWF, 3: Power Attack, 5: Dodge 6: Improved TWF, 7: Mobility 9: (Probably Combat Reflexes or one of the TWF feats)
The strategy here would be to ride into combat on the bear using the bear's move action (not a charge!), then take the DC 20 Ride check to dismount as a free action, then move into flanking position. It would be far cooler if I could LEAP from my moving bear and land in a flanking position, if anyone can tell me the DC for that.
(Dodge, Mobility, and Combat Reflexes also enables the Combat Patrol feat, which is pretty darn cool.)
With this version, I still don't have the bear until 7th level, but no dead feats even without a mount.
Alternate for riding bear, instead of getting off the mount, stay mounted and go Mounted Combat, Trick Riding, Mounted Skirmisher. It will likely be the capstone ability in the game I play, but getting a full attack AFTER moving as a TWFighter cavalier... LOVELY! (It is also WAY cooler to keep riding the bear.)
Teamwork Feats in all cases:
Precise Strikes: Another boon to TWF. Better with the bear's three attacks.
Outflank: This will almost certainly be the 9th level teamwork feat.
Without using the Shield, though, my AC is going to be VERY low! ACK!
For anyone who has used a mount before, what feats for the mount do you recommend? I'm leaning towards the Bear.
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Order of the Paw halfling cavalier. Halflings get a feat that works like power attack, but cuts AC instead of the Attack roll when used against large or larger creatures. Order of the Paw gets, essentially, the entire dwarf favored class bonus against large and larger creatures at level 15. You get a cool wolf mount from level 1, and the small size and added dexterity helps meet two-weapon fighting requirements AND mitigates the attack penalty as well, while also boosting AC with your size bonus, not to mention that the favored class bonus is pretty nifty for keeping your challenge on you.