So far all I have read on these subjects informs me they both came to the planet of Pathfinders before intelligent beings existed. Aboleth were here before the ancient gods and dragons prior to intelligent beings.
Who was first?
Where do the Aboleth come from?
I already have read up on dragons, so I get them, for the most part.
I have read rumors of Aboleth being spawn of the ancient evil one himself/herself...I can work with that, but It would be nice to get some slightly harder info.
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I think the Aboleths showed up first, but the Dragons would probably say otherwise.
Aboleths are from the times of primordial slime, dragons I think evolved in the dinosaur era
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I never understood aboleth's....
Get out of the essentially two dimensional, airy, sunlit and warm confines of terra firma and go 8 to 16 km down into the watery abyss
At 8km down, the pressure is about 800 atmospheres, 8.25*10^7 N/m2 or 6 tons/in^2. It could be a few degrees above or below freezing, the salinity of the ocean keeps it from turning to ice. It's pitch black. Not only must your character hope they don't run into an anti magic field turning them into an instant red smear in the ocean, but look up/down as well as side to side and back and forth
What traps are down there that will ensnare you, preventing you from going up as your protections fail? Sure you're great at trap finding even in the relative open confines of a dungeon, but what passes for a trap down here? Are those the ruins of the Aboleth to your right or scratches from rocks falling from above to below? Speaking of below, just what is below you staring up with hungry eyes, a toothy maw and you as the main course for dinner?
Any questions? Remember, that's just trying to get to where they are.....
I never understood aboleth's....I mean yea they are ancient and evil and what not.....but as far as the bestiary is concerned they're CR 7 creatures which is far from impressive when compared to a dragon. I assume that most have class levels of some variety otherwise a single high level party (14 plus) could start a single handed elimination of the whole race if they were smart about it.
Additionally most aboleths do have considerable class levels; generally the more reclusive they are, the more powerful they are. The standard CR 7 aboleth is both literally and figuratively the tip of the iceberg, a young adult if you want to equate the species to humanoid aging cycles.
Dragons never summoned a massive meteor storm to wipe out an entire empire and then gathered up the few survivors to transform them into amphibious mind-slaves.
Dragons never summoned a massive meteor storm to wipe out an entire empire and then gathered up the few survivors to transform them into amphibious mind-slaves.
Which isn't to say they wouldn't consider it. :P
Who was first?
Dragons came first
Tiamat and Apsu created the original gods of the multiverse. Their offspring Dahak created the mortal dragon race on the Material Plane.
http://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Tiamat
http://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Apsu
I suspect the following:
The Azi dragons are probably the creators or influential in the origin of the serpentfolk and the reason most intelligent reptilians speak draconic
the Aboleth were only pressured to react once they realized the serpentfolk had established an empire that surrounded the Aboleth waters. Being out of their element (literally) the Aboleth sent/influenced their air breathing slaves to deal with scaly menace, in the process the Aboleth lost control of their slaves and nuked um from orbit
Im actually in the process of creating a new pdf with all homebrew stuff and in it im putting rules ive created for ritual magic, or how to cast powerful spells but they take a LONG time to cast and you need multiple spellcasters to pull it off. when i run golarion the aboeliths use something to this effect to do great and terrible things.
Like that meteor thingy. what was it called again? lol ;-)
Who was first?
Dragons came first
Tiamat and Apsu created the original gods of the multiverse. Their offspring Dahak created the mortal dragon race on the Material Plane.
http://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Tiamat
http://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/ApsuI suspect the following:
The Azi dragons are probably the creators or influential in the origin of the serpentfolk and the reason most intelligent reptilians speak draconicthe Aboleth were only pressured to react once they realized the serpentfolk had established an empire that surrounded the Aboleth waters. Being out of their element (literally) the Aboleth sent/influenced their air breathing slaves to deal with scaly menace, in the process the Aboleth lost control of their slaves and nuked um from orbit
I think it's still up for debate. There are sources which suggest that the Aboleth are much older than (most of) the gods. And even if Apsu and Dahak came before the Aboleth there is no indication that they created the Dragons before the Aboleth. The Aboleth could of been hanging out for thousands of years between the time Dahak was made and when he created the Dragons.
^ Bingo.
Tiamat and Apsu created the original gods of the multiverse.Sure.
Unless you believe Princes of Darkness, where the first two beings in existence were Ihys and Asmodeus.
I'd wager that there are things out the in the Dark Tapestry that predate any of them.
And Kthulu should know! *grin*
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And Kthulu should know! *grin*Tiamat and Apsu created the original gods of the multiverse.Sure.
Unless you believe Princes of Darkness, where the first two beings in existence were Ihys and Asmodeus.
I'd wager that there are things out the in the Dark Tapestry that predate any of them.
Ah kthulu is nothing. EVERYONE who is ANYONE knows that Azeroth is the real power of the outer realms
Wonder if it cares (or even is aware) of its own existence
Now that's REAL power
;D
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I look at the trinity of Azathoth, Yog-Sothoth, and Shub-Niggurath as being roughly equal in power. They're more the embodiment of concepts than the physical aliens that most of Lovecraft's creations are. And none of them really seem to be able to / interested in communicating or even interacting with humans in any meaningful way. (Aside from Yog-Sothoth's albino fetish, at least.) They're the fundamental forces...life and death, time and space, creation and destruction.
Just below them is Nyarlathotep. He IS capable, and extremely interested in, interacting and communicating with humans. To a rather disturbing degree, actually. It makes you wonder...if Azathoth is death and destruction, Shub-Niggurath is life and creation, and Yog-Sothoth is time and space....what the hell is Nyarlathotep, and why does it involve such an interest in the tiny insignificant mortal races?
And Kthulu should know! *grin*Tiamat and Apsu created the original gods of the multiverse.Sure.
Unless you believe Princes of Darkness, where the first two beings in existence were Ihys and Asmodeus.
I'd wager that there are things out the in the Dark Tapestry that predate any of them.
Ah kthulu is nothing. EVERYONE who is ANYONE knows that Azeroth is the real power of the outer realms
Wonder if it cares (or even is aware) of its own existence
Now that's REAL power
;D
The Warcraft planet is sentient??? There's the next expac I reckon! *grin*
The Warcraft planet is sentient??? There's the next expac I reckon! *grin*
Destroying the planet in the end raid of the next expansion? Yeah, that would fit.
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Just below them is Nyarlathotep. He IS capable, and extremely interested in, interacting and communicating with humans. To a rather disturbing degree, actually. It makes you wonder...if Azathoth is death and destruction, Shub-Niggurath is life and creation, and Yog-Sothoth is time and space....what the hell is Nyarlathotep, and why does it involve such an interest in the tiny insignificant mortal races?
Sex?
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I never understood aboleth's....I mean yea they are ancient and evil and what not.....but as far as the bestiary is concerned they're CR 7 creatures which is far from impressive when compared to a dragon. I assume that most have class levels of some variety otherwise a single high level party (14 plus) could start a single handed elimination of the whole race if they were smart about it.
But a question on topic, I haven't read to deep into the mythology but how did dragons come to golarion before the gods if apsu was credited with creating a number of them? the gods that is.
Aboleth.
The things I could tell you about them -- the stories.
Now, what you see drawn as diagram in musty old tomes of cave delvers -- a fish the size a house with a transformative mucus -- those are just what remains of something far older, far more glorious.
You see, the aboleth of today are to the elders of their kind like Morlocks areto humans. If you had never seen a human before, and your first experience was with some degenerated hunchback, you might think their-- our-- entire race humiliating.
The aboleth of today are throwbacks. Degenerate, forgotten to their inheritance that rests within the Dominions of the Black.
In the age of Azlant and the ages before, the aboleth were far different. They were smaller, sleeker, and most dangerously: smarter. The aboleth commanded vast psychic abilities that networked their ancient minds across entire worlds. They commanded their servants to build them mighty constructs of rare metals so that they might walk on land when the need presented itself.
Nowhere was safe from them.
Do you think the degenerates of the present age know enough to twist the flesh of humans into something as exquisite as the Azlanti form? No. Those skills were lost with Starfall, and the hubris of the elders.
But there are still cysts buried deep in the world. Cysts where three red eyes in the dark are remembered for what they once were. The Vault Builders knew.
Soon enough, you will as well.
Also, for anyone doubting the terror an Aboleth can represent I present to you Great Shaboath . . . ah, the memories.
So now I have read the Crown of the World has ruins of a culture that predates even the Aboleth coming to the world (I have a lot of catching up to do on reading). So...now there is a wild card in the deck.
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So now I have read the Crown of the World has ruins of a culture that predates even the Aboleth coming to the world (I have a lot of catching up to do on reading). So...now there is a wild card in the deck.
Those are the Elder Thing's the supposed true creators off all life on the planets. But they lost a war with the Aboleths on Golarion.
I see! It is looking like the dragons were 3rd on Golarion.
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Dragons are reported to have arrived on Golarion, having come from a distant corner of the multiverse. This is according to the linnorm dragons, who claim to be the original dragons on Golarion. The linnorm dragons themselves are immigrants, having come from the first world, which existed before the material plane. The elder things and abolith-kind existed at the dawn of the planet, but the abolith did not necessarily exist before. I like to think that they are the first intelligent species on Golarion, and have a legitimate claim to the planet, such as it is.
I won't even touch the gods, because they could all contradict each other on who came first, and all be telling the truth.
In my little headcanon, I like to think that the older gods and species actually came from the old worlds of The World's Oldest Roleplaying Game (TM), and were transplanted or recreated on Golarion after the destruction of the old worlds. Of course, a few species "missed the boat."
* Did the first world exist before the material plane and Golarion?
* Did dragons ever live in the first world before the existence of material plane?
* Did the Aboleth ever live in any other plane before the existence of the material plane?
If the first 2 questions are "yes" and last question is "no", then the answer to which came first would be dragons
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I find the Aboleths to be terribly interesting. The kinda come across as a sort of mind flayer except they don't actually have a mouth with which to eat the brain. It is clear they consider most other forms of life to be food so without mouths what do they eat?
I have taken a bit of a page from mind flayers and Dr. Who and decided that they consume the potentiality of life. The choices a person made in their lives and the choices groups of people make in their lives. Sorta like the Crying Angels from Dr. Who except they can consume the zeitgeist of an entire nation or world for sustenance or even just the thoughts of just one person.
That is why they even suffer other sentients and why the power of the Aboleths grows with the power of the creatures on the world they share. Much like vampires they prefer sentient creatures to feed but they can make do with any creature that must make choices. Chasing a school of fish and consuming their choices to swim one way or the other is a delightful aperitif but doing the same with a group of humans is a sumptuous feast.
To feed Aboleths require choices to be made by others. To feed well the Aboleths manipulate the world to create large scale changes. Why? The smaller the group affected by a choice the closer an Aboleth must be to feed. They must touch a single sentient but they can feed from an entire city from hundreds of miles away. An entire nation can feed every Aboleth on Golarion. In a perverse reflection of the creatures of Monster's Inc the Aboleths greatly prefer choices that lead to suffering than choices that lead to happiness. They discovered this after Earthfall and all the suffering it brought the world.
So they work to manipulate events to cause suffering on a large scale. In some places they are more successful than others. Galt's failure to form a government is a result of Aboleths manipulating people and events. In my game the Aboleths engineered the fall of Aroden hoping to complete the work of Earthfall and enjoy a feast.
An Aboleth may be rated CR 7, but with the ability to use spells like project image, veil and other illusions at will, as well as Dominate Monster 3 times per day they are very powerful. There aren't too many CR 7 creatures I know of that can use a 9th level spell. If played smart, and the dragon fails a save or two, the dragon won't realize it was even in contact with an aboleth due to it disguising itself with a veiled projected image, and it will be dominated for the next 16 days. Its mucus and tentacle slime are also very dangerous.
The aboleth isn't great in a straight up fight, but they are very good behind the scenes mastermind type villains. Don't underestimate the Aboleth.
The Aboleth did defeat the Ancient Ones.
Nyarlathotep is sentience and thus also curiosity and emotions... and thus the keen intresest in anything thinking and granting them all their wishes, while always allowing a bit more to stay unknown and thus keep curiosity peaked... and emotions. Including dread terror.