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Alright, I asked and received what I needed yesterday to make my dream of a Monk Barbarian come true. Now its time to help me build it.
My concept is to use a Devil Spawn Tiefling for +2 Con, +2 Wis, and -2 Cha. I would be taking the alternate racial traits of Scaled and Tail. Take 5 levels of Martial Artist Archtype for Monk and then go into Barbarian for what looks like 5 levels to get Uncanny Dodge (and because Monk's Robe will offset this loss in AC and Unarmed Strike).
My problem come in with stats, feats and archtypes. I can't decide if it would benefit me to pick a Barbarian archtype or not, and whether I can pick up Master of Many Styles along with Martial Artist. Martial Artist doesn't require me to be Lawful, but Master of Many Styles doesn't explicitly list a Lawful requirement. If I can go with Master of Many Styles then I'd probably benefit from bumping Dex to atleast 15 and picking up TWF since I lose Flurry.
Right now here is where I am stuck.
Str-14
Dex-14
Con-14+2=16
Int-10
Wis-14+2=16
Cha-8-2=6
If I can do Many Styles I'd probably start with Dragon Style and for my 1st level feat take Crane Style. If I can't do Many Styles I'd probably go Crane Style for 1st level and Deflect Arrows for bonus feat.
Then I'd like to kind of get advice on where to go from here...
there is an alternative you may like. Drop all of your levels in monk, go straight barbarian and just "beat it, beat it, beat it.." ;)michael jackson reference there.
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Hate to break it to you, but Martial Artist and Master of Many Styles don't stack because they both replace Perfect Self, and they both alter the monk Bonus Feats class feature.
Thats fine but I am still going Martial Artist and Barbarian so the question still stands of where to go from here?
Edit: I don't see where Martial Artist messes with Bonus feats either...
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Have you thought about going Urban Barbarian to get a little more utility out of your Rage? The Stat distribution will mesh better with your monk as well since you can spike Dex, Str, or a combination of the two (or 3 really, since Con is an option). You could even look at dropping your strength and taking Weapon Finesse to focus on pure Dex spikes when you rage, maybe pick up Agile Brass knuckles for damage? The extra points could go towards Dex or Wis depending on your preference, either way you're stupid hard to hit and have a way to attack reliably. Combined with the Surprise Accuracy and Lethal Accuracy Rage powers you could be pretty awesome and have a seriously competitive to-hit.
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Yeah, was looking over that build, it would pretty much allow you to dump stat STR. You'd be a little under par for damage until you got your Agile weapons, but everything else synergizes really well as far as I can see. Moving the points you would have put into STR into WIS helps make your Pain Points ability even more effective as well.
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Hate to break it to you, but Martial Artist and Master of Many Styles don't stack because they both replace Perfect Self, and they both alter the monk Bonus Feats class feature.Thats fine but I am still going Martial Artist and Barbarian so the question still stands of where to go from here?
Edit: I don't see where Martial Artist messes with Bonus feats either...
I must have accidentally scrolled to another Archetype, I'm not seeing any Bonus Feat overlap now either..... They do both affect Perfect Self though!
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Have you thought about going Urban Barbarian to get a little more utility out of your Rage? The Stat distribution will mesh better with your monk as well since you can spike Dex, Str, or a combination of the two (or 3 really, since Con is an option). You could even look at dropping your strength and taking Weapon Finesse to focus on pure Dex spikes when you rage, maybe pick up Agile Brass knuckles for damage? The extra points could go towards Dex or Wis depending on your preference, either way you're stupid hard to hit and have a way to attack reliably. Combined with the Surprise Accuracy and Lethal Accuracy Rage powers you could be pretty awesome and have a seriously competitive to-hit.
The problem is that Brass Knuckles really aren't RAW...they won't scale with my Unarmed Strike damage so the goal is to stick as much to just Unarmed Strike with Monk's Robe and Amulet of Mighty Fists as possible because I know the GM isn't on board for changing that.
I did look at the Urban Barbarian but I am not sure how I'd pair them up...
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Brass knuckles are right out of the Advanced Player's Guide, they have the monk quality so you can flurry with them, and they do, in fact, allow you to use your monk UAS damage with them:
Brass Knuckles: These close combat weapons are designed to fit comfortably around the knuckles, narrowing the contact area and therefore magnifying the amount of force delivered by a punch. They allow you to deal lethal damage with unarmed attacks. You may hold, but not wield, a weapon or other object in a hand wearing brass knuckles. You may cast a spell with a somatic component while wearing brass knuckles if you make a concentration check (DC 10 + the level of the spell you're casting). Monks are proficient with brass knuckles and can use their monk unarmed damage when fighting with them.
Emphasis mine.
Urban Barbarian is essentially identical to the base barbarian, except they get crowd control instead of fast movement, and their controlled rage gives them the ability to apply a scaling +4/+6/+8 bonus to any of their physical stats without the hit to AC or the bump to Will, or even divide the bonus between stats as the situation demands. Once you get your 5th level ability to ignore fatigue from martial artist, you can even end and restart your rage as two free actions with no consequences (except the fact that you'll have to spend two rounds of rage that round) to reassign your rage bonus if you so choose. It's like the perfect combo.
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Hmm then why do monk lovers get so bent out of shape about enchanting their Unarmed Strikes? You can even make brass knuckles out of adamantine so they can bypass DR...
Is it possible to work a Sunder build then using an Adamantine Brassknuckles I would be able to really break things...
If not then Urban Barbarian looks like the way to go.
Did you roll those stats? Or are you on a point buy?
This seems like one of those situations where I'd amp STR, CON, and WIS to try to kill anything that comes close before it can kill you.
Your AC will absolutely suck, but your HP can be really solid with solid saves.
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Did you roll those stats? Or are you on a point buy?
This seems like one of those situations where I'd amp STR, CON, and WIS to try to kill anything that comes close before it can kill you.
Your AC will absolutely suck, but your HP can be really solid with solid saves.
Nah thats a 20 point buy.
Monks have a real issue with keeping up AC wise so I'm not sure I want to dump Dex...it may be a solution but how would you rework the stats if you were to do it?
Hmm then why do monk lovers get so bent out of shape about enchanting their Unarmed Strikes? You can even make brass knuckles out of adamantine so they can bypass DR...
Is it possible to work a Sunder build then using an Adamantine Brassknuckles I would be able to really break things...
If not then Urban Barbarian looks like the way to go.
Monk lovers are bent out of shape because of SKR's comments, where it was ruled that Brass Knuckles are a weapon, and as such only do 1d3.
See here for details.
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I just noticed that, because I thought that they didn't count for your Unarmed Strike damage. I just quick searched and found that same thread and the SRD updated info.
Well my GM has the APG as written so I guess it will come down to what he wants to do, but I assume he will take away the Brass Knuckles idea so I won't get my damage to them.
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Hmm then why do monk lovers get so bent out of shape about enchanting their Unarmed Strikes? You can even make brass knuckles out of adamantine so they can bypass DR...
Is it possible to work a Sunder build then using an Adamantine Brassknuckles I would be able to really break things...
If not then Urban Barbarian looks like the way to go.
Monk lovers are bent out of shape because of SKR's comments, where it was ruled that Brass Knuckles are a weapon, and as such only do 1d3.
See here for details.
That thread was from 7 months before the Advanced Player's Guide released with a version of the Brass Knuckles that specifically stated in the weapon description that they had the ability to allow a monk to use his unarmed strike damage with them.
The information I posted for the Brass Knuckles was copy/pasted directly from the Paizo PRD. Are you sure your information is current?Because the most recently published material and the official PRD both state that a monk can use his UAS damage in conjunction with Brass Knuckles.
Honestly, without a higher point buy, I'd just walk into it knowing that I'm gambling with my character's life -- and have a little fun with it. :)
I'd go with Oni-Spawn (if you're wanting a Tiefling).
str 18 (16 + 2) 10
dex 13 -- 3
con 14 -- 5
int 9 -- -1
wis 16 (14 + 2) 5
cha 6 (8 - 2) -2
I'd take Barbarian @ level 1 to kick in some early HP and survivability. Levels 2 - 6 are Martial Artist, then switch back to barbarian full-time.
Feats: Power Attack (1), Dodge (ink bonus 1), Dragon Style (3), Combat Reflexes (ink 2), Dragon Ferocity (5) >> season to taste.
Level 1: You monk-barian is still developing his style, and he walks around with a big stick. Un-raged he has 15 hp, an AC of 14(ish) in armor, and spanks things with a +4 power attack with xdx + 9 damage per attack. Raging it jumps to 17 hp, an AC of 12(ish), and +6 power attack with xdx + 12 damage per attack. Not much is going to survive that, though you do gamble every time something swings at you… most level 1 opponents will have a 50/50 shot of hitting you while you rage. So play smart.
If your crew is wanting to use you as the tank, then this is not your build. If they want a pet destroyer who goes where he pleases and generally eats your opponents one at a time… this guy can do the trick.
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Hmm then why do monk lovers get so bent out of shape about enchanting their Unarmed Strikes? You can even make brass knuckles out of adamantine so they can bypass DR...
Is it possible to work a Sunder build then using an Adamantine Brassknuckles I would be able to really break things...
If not then Urban Barbarian looks like the way to go.
Monk lovers are bent out of shape because of SKR's comments, where it was ruled that Brass Knuckles are a weapon, and as such only do 1d3.
See here for details.
That thread was from 7 months before the Advanced Player's Guide released with a version of the Brass Knuckles that specifically stated in the weapon description that they had the ability to allow a monk to use his unarmed strike damage with them.
The information I posted for the Brass Knuckles was copy/pasted directly from the Paizo PRD. Are you sure your information is current?
Nah I believe thats right seeing as the hate for the developers from the Monk loving PCs runs deep. I'd bet this is why.
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Honestly, without a higher point buy, I'd just walk into it knowing that I'm gambling with my character's life -- and have a little fun with it. :)
I'd go with Oni-Spawn (if you're wanting a Tiefling).
str 18 (16 + 2) 10
dex 13 -- 3
con 14 -- 5
int 9 -- -1
wis 16 (14 + 2) 5
cha 6 (8 - 2) -2I'd take Barbarian @ level 1 to kick in some early HP and survivability. Levels 2 - 6 are Martial Artist, then switch back to barbarian full-time.
Feats: Power Attack (1), Dodge (ink bonus 1), Dragon Style (3), Combat Reflexes (ink 2), Dragon Ferocity (5) >> season to taste.
Level 1: You monk-barian is still developing his style, and he walks around with a big stick. Un-raged he has 15 hp, an AC of 14(ish) in armor, and spanks things with a +4 power attack with xdx + 9 damage per attack. Raging it jumps to 17 hp, an AC of 12(ish), and +6 power attack with xdx + 12 damage per attack. Not much is going to survive that, though you do gamble every time something swings at you… most level 1 opponents will have a 50/50 shot of hitting you while you rage. So play smart.
If your crew is wanting to use you as the tank, then this is not your build. If they want a pet destroyer who goes where he pleases and generally eats your opponents one at a time… this guy can do the trick.
I think I'd be fairy squishy...
Dump your Wis attribute and compensate your AC by wearing mithril medium armor. It will only make you lose your Wis bonus to AC and your monk speed bonus. No loss of barbarian speed or other monk abilities. This enables a Str and Con or Str and Dex build for fewer point. As a visual bonus you can wear armor spikes.
On a small tangent, what would you call a Monk/Barbarian?
A Marbarian or a Bonk? I would say the second if I had my choice...
You could just go with Monkarian, or Monarian my favorite :)
I think I'd be fairy squishy...
Your build has 1 more AC and 1 more hp at the cost of some serious loss of damage output... doesn't seem all that squishier to me.
Your call
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Dump your Wis attribute and compensate your AC by wearing mithril medium armor. It will only make you lose your Wis bonus to AC and your monk speed bonus. No loss of barbarian speed or other monk abilities. This enables a Str and Con or Str and Dex build for fewer point. As a visual bonus you can wear armor spikes.
You also lose Flurry:
"When wearing armor, using a shield, or carrying a medium or heavy load, a monk loses his AC bonus, as well as his fast movement and flurry of blows abilities."Not really worth it.
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16
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Dump your Wis attribute and compensate your AC by wearing mithril medium armor. It will only make you lose your Wis bonus to AC and your monk speed bonus. No loss of barbarian speed or other monk abilities. This enables a Str and Con or Str and Dex build for fewer point. As a visual bonus you can wear armor spikes.
He'd lose Flurry, which is the big crutch of much Monk offense.
I think I'd be fairy squishy...Honestly, without a higher point buy, I'd just walk into it knowing that I'm gambling with my character's life -- and have a little fun with it. :)
I'd go with Oni-Spawn (if you're wanting a Tiefling).
str 18 (16 + 2) 10
dex 13 -- 3
con 14 -- 5
int 9 -- -1
wis 16 (14 + 2) 5
cha 6 (8 - 2) -2I'd take Barbarian @ level 1 to kick in some early HP and survivability. Levels 2 - 6 are Martial Artist, then switch back to barbarian full-time.
Feats: Power Attack (1), Dodge (ink bonus 1), Dragon Style (3), Combat Reflexes (ink 2), Dragon Ferocity (5) >> season to taste.
Level 1: You monk-barian is still developing his style, and he walks around with a big stick. Un-raged he has 15 hp, an AC of 14(ish) in armor, and spanks things with a +4 power attack with xdx + 9 damage per attack. Raging it jumps to 17 hp, an AC of 12(ish), and +6 power attack with xdx + 12 damage per attack. Not much is going to survive that, though you do gamble every time something swings at you… most level 1 opponents will have a 50/50 shot of hitting you while you rage. So play smart.
If your crew is wanting to use you as the tank, then this is not your build. If they want a pet destroyer who goes where he pleases and generally eats your opponents one at a time… this guy can do the trick.
That's basically what my build is, but I go full Martial Artist after the 1 Barbarian. I also dropped a point in Str to give a boost to Dex and Int (upping the Str to 18 at level 4).
After Dragon Ferocity, overall damage build would be Wpn Focus (unarmed) and Wpn Spec (unarmed) for your next general feats. Elemental Fist will also help with for single strike burst damage. For Traits, if you can somehow worm Berserker of the Society from the Faction Guide and Quain Martial Artist from the Dragon Empires Primer, that will add extra rage and another +1 to unarmed damage, which is always nice.
EDIT: Ninja'ed!
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If you want an archetype for the Barb levels, Savage Barbarian is pretty decent. It can certainly help with the AC issue, and it is stackable with Urban Barbarian.
Also, the Oni-Spawn seems like a better fit. On a related note, I think that the fiendish resistances racial feature is pretty hot, I'd think that 5 points of energy resistance to 2 energy types is worth more than just 1 AC.
Str 17 (15+2) 7
Dex 14 5
Con 14 5
Int 10
Wis 17 (15+2) 7
Cha 5 (7-2) -4With the Barbarian's rage, you won't be hurting for str. and you can pump either it or wis. at lv 4 for good effect. Personally, I'd pump wis first, as it gets better AC, Will save, Stun DC, skills, etc., while the str gets +1 attack and damage, and not much else that will matter for you.
I will have to see how this looks on paper. I gotta look up Savage Barbarian because I don't recall that Archtype offhand.
That's basically what my build is, but I go full Martial Artist after the 1 Barbarian.
AFter I typed up that post, I relized that was a better solution. THe bennies for sticking Martial Artist are just flat-out better than Barbarian... hp not-withstanding.
Yeah i think you asked about monk barbs before.
If you want to style master, you can also splash unarmed fighter for a base style feat to get a second style feat from MOMF. Like, Crane style then crane wing at level 2, and then say a urban barb for controlled HP/ Attk dmg/ and Ranged attack rage uses.
And as troll said, trait in blood of angels to allow nuetral or neutral good monks.
If no master of many styles, there is some deep combo to be pieced together, like quigong (if you have a ki pool) to get barkskin, and vow for more ki. Or a iron mountain monk of the four winds lol.
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Yeah i think you asked about monk barbs before.
If you want to style master, you can also splash unarmed fighter for a base style feat to get a second style feat from MOMF. Like, Crane style then crane wing at level 2, and then say a urban barb for controlled HP/ Attk dmg/ and Ranged attack rage uses.
And as troll said, trait in blood of angels to allow nuetral or neutral good monks.
If no master of many styles, there is some deep combo to be pieced together, like quigong (if you have a ki pool) to get barkskin, and vow for more ki. Or a iron mountain monk of the four winds lol.
The problem is I don't have that book...I may have to go buy it...no one can send me the info on that info and its not on SRD, so until I buy the book its hard to use something I am not familiar with.
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Okay so here is what I am thinking about then.
Barbarian 5/Monk (Martial Artist) 5 True Neutral
Oni Blood Tiefling (Take the tail and scaled alternate race traits)
Str-15 +2 (17)
Dex-14
Con-14
Int-10
Wis-15 +2 (17)
Cha-7 -2 (5)
1st Level Barbarian
12 HP, 1 BAB, Power Attack, Fast Movement, Rage 6 rounds/day
2nd Level Monk
AC Bonus (+3), Unarmed Strike, Flurry, Dodge, Stunning Fist
3rd Level Monk
+1 BAB, Evasion, Combat Reflexes(?), Dragon Style(?)
4th Level Monk
+1 BAB, +1 Wis, Pain Points, Fast Movement, Maneuver Training, Pain Points
5th Level Monk
+1 BAB, +1 AC, Increase to UAS, Martial Arts Master, Exploit Weakness, Crane Style(?)
6th Level Monk
High Jump, Extreme Endurance
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Where do I go from here? Should I keep going Barbarian for a few or stick with Monk? Should I go Urban Barbarian, or stick with regular Barbarian for Fast Movement again and then look into going the Mobility and Spring Attack route?
I'd say that depends on your group, your DM, and your campaign (as well as your own personal preferences).
If you know your generally low AC will be constantly focused by the DM by having groups of books gang-bang you while you're isolated form healing resources, then Crane Style might be a better style.
If you have some controllers in the group, or you don't have a DM who constatntly challenges PC's on their weaknesses to that level, then I'd say the added offensive power is worth it.
And on top of that, are you a player who prefers to cover weaknesses or lean into strengths? I generally make that call from character-to-character, but I have gaming friends who always try to cover thier character weaknesses (taking on a "survivalist's" mentality). It's really up to you.
If this character were mine, I'd probably try to use my feats and class features to boost offense because in my mind this guy is about overwhelming his opponents before they can kill him. Then I'd fill in any defensive gaps I could with gear and combat tactics.
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Hmm I wouldn't be able to grab Elemental Fist until later anyways, so I think Crane Style will be good there.
The problem with my group would be their playstyle...they really aren't up to the tactics you'd like to have and frequently there is only 1 melee character. So, having atleast a passable AC would be important if I'm not going the Mobility and Spring Attack route.
I guess I can give up Trap Sense and go Savage and Urban Barbarian for another +1 Dodge to AC and Versatile Rage would give me the opportunity to pick Dex with my rage if necessary to pop another +2 in there.
Are you trying to use Versatile Rage to boost offense and defense? Or just as a defensive option for when the situation arises that you need it?