Shrink Item...Will Negates?!


Rules Questions


Hi!

Just wondering why items get a will save for this spell? I would assume the save is for something that is in someones hand but the spell doesn't really go into how the spell operates if used offensively. It really only outlines it's use out of combat to shrink or store things.

Anyone care to elaborate on this?

SHRINK ITEM:

You are able to shrink one nonmagical item (if it is within the size limit) to 1/16 of its normal size in each dimension (to about 1/4,000 the original volume and mass). This change effectively reduces the object's size by four categories. Optionally, you can also change its now shrunken composition to a clothlike one. Objects changed by a shrink item spell can be returned to normal composition and size merely by tossing them onto any solid surface or by a word of command from the original caster. Even a burning fire and its fuel can be shrunk by this spell. Restoring the shrunken object to its normal size and composition ends the spell.

Shrink item can be made permanent with a permanency spell, in which case the affected object can be shrunk and expanded an indefinite number of times, but only by the original caster.


I think the rule is that whenever an item possessed by a character is affected, the character rolls the save. So it's technically the wielder of the weapon who rolls a save if you try to shrink it...

Then again I might not remember this correctly at all.

Grand Lodge

Animated objects?


The object gets the save of the PC.


Yeah I supposed that that was the case if you were going to shrink someones sword but the range is touch and I don't know any casters that want to run up to touch someone's battle axe. Also grease would probably disarm stuff better with less risk of injury.

Also the spell description implies things get "frozen" when they are shrunk, otherwise a shrunken campfire would just keep burning.


Offensively, I'd pair this spell with a Spectral Hand or Reach Spell metamagics. Shrinking the keystone of an archway would be a good way to collapse buildings and bridges. A shrunken spell component pouch would be inaccessible. Shrink shields. Shrink someone's bullets or powder horn, and make his gun useless.

Your options are myriad.

Grand Lodge

Shrink armor?


Lochmonster wrote:

Yeah I supposed that that was the case if you were going to shrink someones sword but the range is touch and I don't know any casters that want to run up to touch someone's battle axe. Also grease would probably disarm stuff better with less risk of injury.

Also the spell description implies things get "frozen" when they are shrunk, otherwise a shrunken campfire would just keep burning.

Grease is better unless they are likely to have a good reflex save.

Shrinking armor might destroy it.

If shrinking containers doesn't make them break, shrinking a bag or pack could make it inaccessible.

Grand Lodge

Shrink codpiece?


blackbloodtroll wrote:
Shrink codpiece?

shrink helmet!


Intelligent item might resent being shrunk.


Pfft, they can go tell that to their shrink!


Since the spell doesn't outline damaged caused by worn items being shrunk, there clearly is no intent for this to be able to cause damage. So for example, shrinking someone's necklace with just make it fit uncomfortable tight, but it would not cause strangulation or decapitation or anything silly like that. And a successful save means the spell fails entirely.

My question about Shrink Item is whether it is intended to allow multiple items in a container to be easily shrunk. I would say probably yes, since the example of a campfire is actually a small pile of interacting items. So for example, filling a chest full of books, closing and locking it, and then casting Shrink Item on the chest should cause it to shrink along with all of its contents. (Exception being if a living creature or other ineligible target were put into the chest.)

Does that seem about right?


It does seem right. It's magic, it should function the way you'd expect magic to work. So shrinking a chest shrinks everything inside (but you can't get shrunken stuff out), but shrinking a dress does not make the wearer a few sizes smaller.


Yeah when you realize you can shrink down catapults and boats and carry them around with you the game becomes much more fun.

Since the spell also allows you to turn the item into a cloth-like replica of itself, I intend on carrying a ton of items pinned to my robes, like boy scout badges.

On demand, passageway blocking boulders are very useful.

Grand Lodge

Shrink down Consecrated shrine.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Keep in mind the spell's size limits!

Boats and catapults are often larger than 2 cu. ft./level.

Grand Lodge

A Catapult can be broken down in to separate parts for transport.
These separate parts can be shrunk down.


It might be easier to Fabricate one on the spot, but we're veering off-course. The original topic was "offensive uses of Shrink Item".

Like shrinking a Gnoll's battle axe.

Grand Lodge

Plank over a hole, shrink it when enemies walk over it.


blackbloodtroll wrote:
Shrink armor?

Shrink armor?


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

OFFENSE: I've used it to shrink lava into cloth-like strips and then hurling/pouring that onto my foes.

"Did you seriously just throw an orange scarf at me?"

"Not quite."

*unshrinks lava*

It's even better if you get a LOT of it, sew it into a large carpet, then trick your enemies into standing on it.

DEFENSE: I always liked the idea of fabricating a giant conical wizard's hat the same general size as a teepee, then casting a permanent shrink item spell upon it.

That way, you can give yourself total cover whenever you want simply by uttering the command word.

Works especially well in an antimagic field. The shrinking magic is cancelled, thereby giving you total cover from the antimagic field without any actions on your part. You can then cast a teleport spell to escape thanks to the break in line of effect.

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