Hi all, I have been wanting to make a transmuter wizard to be able to do all the cool mage tricks (like Blasting, BFC, Utility, Debuffing, and Buffing), but also able to fight back when he has to. I remember in 3.5 the polymorph spells were pretty powerful to help you out there.
However, this is a Pathfinder game and sadly all the polymorph spells are not as powerful in giving you the smack down you need when you need it. So my question is what would be a good build for a wizard that can fight? My concept is based off the fact that this guy didn't know magic and he was actually going to be a militiamen. However, during an attack he realized he could do magic and then continued to pursue in training for it after the incident.
So would a full normal transmuter Wizard succeed at this? Or would a Wizard/Eldritch Knight be better to portray this?
We are playing a forgotten realms campaign. So I was thinking of getting the militia regional feat to get proficiency in all MW to portray his little time in training to be a militiamen and I can enter EK asap after level 6 from wizard. Either case I am going for the militia feat to portray his background and flavor.
We are level 3 as of now and using 15 pt buy. Also only Pathfinder books are allowed. Here are the two builds I thought of. Tell me what would be better for a Wizard that can fight. Thanks all.
Human Transmuter 3 (all wizard til 20)
Str: 10
Dex: 14
Con: 14
Int: 17
Wis: 10
Cha: 8
Feats: additional traits( eyes & ears of the city, reactionary), toughness, and Spellcasting Prodigy. Regional feat: Militia
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Human Transmuter 3 (after level 6 of wizard will go into EK)
Str: 12
Dex: 14
Con: 14
Int: 16
Wis: 10
Cha: 8
Feats: Feats: additional traits( eyes & ears of the city, magical knack), toughness, and Spellcasting Prodigy. Regional feat: Militia
So I was thinking of getting the militia regional feat (...)
Also only Pathfinder books are allowed.
... My brain hurts.
Honestly, if you want to play a "wizard who can fight", play a magus.
So I was thinking of getting the militia regional feat (...)Also only Pathfinder books are allowed.... My brain hurts.
Honestly, if you want to play a "wizard who can fight", play a magus.
Sorry for not clarifying. I know i can go Magus and its a good class. However, it doesnt fit my concept because i want to access 9th level spell and sadly Magus doesnt get all the gems of the wizard spell list and they stop at level 6 for spells.
Are all the Forgotten Realms feats available? I ask because you seem to be using the regional feats from the books. If so i would look at Carmendine Monk from Champions of Valor and Go Sohei Monk 1 Transmuter 5 then EK.
sounds like you want an Eldritch Knight. Lore Warden 1/Wizard 5/ EK 10/ Wizard 4.
9th level spells, 16 BAB, Some bonus fighter feats... You should do alright. People will tell you EK sucks... and it does, during the first few levels. by level 10 though, you should start to come into your own.
Focus on buffs and utility spells, and let your wizard/sorcerer use their battlefield control spells and save or dies.
Why not Witch?
The Scarred Witch Doctor is a constitution based spellcaster.
With the Racial Heritage(Orc) feat, a human can take levels in the class.
Take the Prehensile Hair Hex, and you have a natural attack based off of constitution.
Well I have seen that type of option. It sounds good, but I actually like the concept and flavor of the wizard over the witch. Also the witch doesn't get all the spells like a wizard/sorcerer.
Are all the Forgotten Realms feats available? I ask because you seem to be using the regional feats from the books. If so i would look at Carmendine Monk from Champions of Valor and Go Sohei Monk 1 Transmuter 5 then EK.
No, only the Forgotten Realms Campaign book and the Player's guide to Fauren book are being used.
sounds like you want an Eldritch Knight. Lore Warden 1/Wizard 5/ EK 10/ Wizard 4.
9th level spells, 16 BAB, Some bonus fighter feats... You should do alright. People will tell you EK sucks... and it does, during the first few levels. by level 10 though, you should start to come into your own.
Focus on buffs and utility spells, and let your wizard/sorcerer use their battlefield control spells and save or dies.
Right I was thinking the same thing :). However, should I take a level in fighter? Because I get proficiency in all MW with the militia feat, so now I can directly go into EK without skipping another CL before going into it. Is it better to use my regional feat on something else?
Which Wizard spells are you looking to have that a Witch does not?
Also, never let the name of your class define you.
A Witch might as well be a Wizard in Faerun.
True, I agree. The hexes are nice but not what I am looking for and I like the specialist feel of the wizard for the bonus spell slot.
For spells, the Witch doesn't have shield, haste, fireball, resist energy, form of the (dragon, undead, and gaint). You can get them but only through patron so that still makes you miss quite of bit. There are more but I don't remember on top of my head.
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If you're going to fight, you need some strength, lol. An int of 14 or 15 is plenty to start - just focus on buffs and battlefield control, stuff that doesn't allow saves. There's no difference between a 14 int buff and an 18 int buff, and if you try to be good in combat AND save or suck spells, you'll get neither. Start with at least 16 strength.
If you're going to fight, you need some strength, lol. An int of 14 or 15 is plenty to start - just focus on buffs and battlefield control, stuff that doesn't allow saves. There's no difference between a 14 int buff and an 18 int buff, and if you try to be good in combat AND save or suck spells, you'll get neither. Start with at least 16 strength.
He will focus on casting primary and combat secondary. So I was thinking of buffing or using the transmuter ability to buff my Str when I need to. If I go strength 16, that would be pretty harsh on all the other stats, don't you think?
I am not familiar with the 'militia regional feat' - it sounds quite powerful that it gives all the Martial Weapons for a feat.
That said? Fighter(or ranger, or Cavilier, not a bad option) at level 1 and then Wiz 5, EK to 10 seems to be the standard model for a wizard who can fight as opposed to a Magus which is a fighting wizard.
Here check it out. it's for real broski.
Right I agree, that is the standard model...ftr1/wiz5/EK10. However, is it better to skip the fighter level since I have this feat??
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I am not familiar with the 'militia regional feat' - it sounds quite powerful that it gives all the Martial Weapons for a feat.
That said? Fighter(or ranger, or Cavilier, not a bad option) at level 1 and then Wiz 5, EK to 10 seems to be the standard model for a wizard who can fight as opposed to a Magus which is a fighting wizard.
Here check it out. it's for real broski.
Right I agree, that is the standard model...ftr1/wiz5/EK10. However, is it better to skip the fighter level since I have this feat??
This is just personal opinion, but that feat (used to as a prereq to enter EK) is all kinds of cheesy. Drop the feat, pick up something useful, bite the bullet, and take 1 level in fighter to qualify.
Alternately you could go over the top cheese since the Players Guide to Faerun has the Incantatrix PrC (take 10 levels for I WIN) and the Persistent Spell feat (good morning 24 hour buff spells)....breakin da game, breakin da game. (DONT DO THIS)
I would take a level of fighter. not only does it give you the necessary martial proficiencies, but also an extra feat at level 1, 10 hp, both of which will help with your survival during those first 7 or so levels.
I am not familiar with the 'militia regional feat' - it sounds quite powerful that it gives all the Martial Weapons for a feat.
That said? Fighter(or ranger, or Cavilier, not a bad option) at level 1 and then Wiz 5, EK to 10 seems to be the standard model for a wizard who can fight as opposed to a Magus which is a fighting wizard.
Here check it out. it's for real broski.
Right I agree, that is the standard model...ftr1/wiz5/EK10. However, is it better to skip the fighter level since I have this feat??
This is just personal opinion, but that feat (used to as a prereq to enter EK) is all kinds of cheesy. Drop the feat, pick up something useful, bite the bullet, and take 1 level in fighter to qualify.
Alternately you could go over the top cheese since the Players Guide to Faerun has the Incantatrix PrC (take 10 levels for I WIN) and the Persistent Spell feat (good morning 24 hour buff spells)....breakin da game, breakin da game. (DONT DO THIS)
I don't think we can use the Prc classes in the book or feats. Only the equipment and regional feats are allowed. So I was thinking militia would be good because I only lose one caster level, right? Also how about the Arcane/Sage bloodline for a sorcerer build instead of a wizard. Would that be more helpful for a EK build?
On the one hand, if your campaign allows the feat and it fits with your background then I would perhaps skip the fighter level.
On the other hand, will you need the extra caster level. If you are casting a couple of spells to turn you into a melee monster then you may not really need the extra caster level and 7th and 9th level spell.
Taking the level of fighter gets you the above mentioned bonus feat and more hitpoints. It also grants you proficiency with armour if that is something you'd like.
eventually you'll get transformation spell and can boost your BAB but in the level leading up to that point you'll begin to suck alot if you try to enter melee instead of just casting spells
militia feat = borked.
errr its 3.5, was never meant for pathfinder.
hey if you can use 3.5 material there's alot more brokenness to be had than this feat
Ok, it would fit my concept to have that level one fighter in my build but I definitely will be a wizard that can fight, and not a fighter that cast spells. So I guess I should build him like this?
Human Fighter1/Transmuter2
Str: 14
Dex: 14
Con: 14
Int: 15
Wis: 8
Cha: 8
Feats: Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Spellcasting Prodigy, and Toughness.
Traits: Magical Knack and (Eyes and ears of the city)
My next level up point will go to Int and I will use my Transmuter ability to enhance my Str.
'Wizard that can fight' is not something you can easily build in Pathfinder. I'd suggest min-maxing harder. Charisma 7. Put more into strength. Fight two-handed. Take Power Attack. Use personal protective spells like mirror image so you don't need much Dex / Con. Take as little Int as you can get away with - even 13 is enough if you don't rely on spells with saves, and you can get a headband of +6 Int later.
You may want to look at this guide
If you take the militia feat, you don't need to take a level of another class to get all martial weapons proficiency to get into eldritch knight, wich is what you seem to want.
Ok, it would fit my concept to have that level one fighter in my build but I definitely will be a wizard that can fight, and not a fighter that cast spells. So I guess I should build him like this?
Human Fighter1/Transmuter2
Str: 14
Dex: 14
Con: 14
Int: 15
Wis: 8
Cha: 8Feats: Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Spellcasting Prodigy, and Toughness.
Traits: Magical Knack and (Eyes and ears of the city)
My next level up point will go to Int and I will use my Transmuter ability to enhance my Str.
I built a half-elf fighting wizard in Pathfinder Society as a challenge. I've only played a couple of times with him, but both times he kicked his share of butt and we had a good time.
Pathfinder Society play uses a 20 point build but his scores are almost identical to yours:
Str: 15 (16 w/Physical Enhancement)
Dex: 14
Con: 14
Int: 16
Wis: 8
Cha: 10
Feats: Toughness; Traits: Courageous, Expert Duelist.
In addition he wields a masterwork bastard sword he got for free as his bonded item and the ability to use it with the Ancestral Arms alternate racial trait.
The militia feat is hardly a big deal as the rules are now a wizard could skip martial weapons and go straight to an exotic weapon, it only gives a slight edge in versatility of weapons. It is fine to qualify for EK, essentially he is skipping out on other regional feats that tend to be a bit stronger than normal feats, since all players get this option it should be fine.
I am thinking sorcerer fits the fluff better, wizards don't spontaneously learn to wield magic. You are not going for a skill build anyway. Going for sorcerer allows you to use Eldritch Heritage feats to gain a significant (inherent) bonus on strength and/or constitution depending on the bloodline(s) you pick.
Draconic bloodline might not be the greatest in itself but you do qualify for Draconic Disciple with it's own stat boosts and abilities.
sorc 6 DD 4 EK 10, gives you the abilities of an 18th lvl sorcerer, a BAB of +16.
sorcerer gives you claws you can use in any shape for a number of rounds per day, +1 damage per die with your favorite energy type for spells cast, 5 energy resist for that same energy type and +1 natural armor bonus (increasing to 10 and +2 respectively) though this natural armor will not help you in shapes other than your own form, bonus spells are decent overall.
DD gives you blood of dragons which allow you to gain your 9th lvl bonus spell despite being an effective lvl 18 sorcerer, a +4 strenght, +2 natural armor increase that functions in any shape, a bloodline feat and the ability to bite (in addition to claws in any shape), it also has decent BAB and HP. Since it also advances bloodline power it gives you two breath weapon attacks per day
EK gives you full BAB advancement the ability to pick fighter feats and a few bonus feats and spell critical to top it of (though it doesn't play nice with arcane strike), it has a good caster progression so it can still get you to cast two 9th lvl spells eventually (wish and another).
* Eldritch heritage orc bloodline will cost you some feats but can gain you..
Touch of Rage, which eventually will give a touched target +10 morale bonus to hit and damage for 1 round. Even better though cheesy is that you can use it with quicken SLA to use it on yourself since it counts as a 1st lvl spell apparently, it would allow you to dish out very 'proper' damage in dragon shape.
Strength of the Beast, which will give you +2 (inherent) strength at level 11, 15 and 19 for a total of +6 (wish could get you up to +5 with an expense of 125,000 gold which you can still do at lvl 20 but not on strength).
Power of Giants is also an option though I wouldnt spend a feat on this, while it is nice you can use it in 1 minute increments, the +4 natural armor does not stack with your usual +2 and give you -2 dex and size penalty of 1, negating any AC gain it still does give you a +6 size bonus to strength and +4 to constitution as well as making you large but you can do this with spells already.
Eldrich Knight
Weapon Proficiency: Must be proficient with all martial weapons.
militia feat is 3.5 and might as well be considered a homebrew feat
Eldrich Knight
Weapon Proficiency: Must be proficient with all martial weapons.militia feat is 3.5 and might as well be considered a homebrew feat
The OP specifically said they were allowed 3.5 regional feats and even suggested taking the feat himself. We are working within what is allowed in the campaign.
The OP specifically said they were allowed 3.5 regional feats and even suggested taking the feat himself. We are working within what is allowed in the campaign.Eldrich Knight
Weapon Proficiency: Must be proficient with all martial weapons.militia feat is 3.5 and might as well be considered a homebrew feat
then he doesn't need our help 3.5 is all the help anyone could ever need ;)
then he doesn't need our help 3.5 is all the help anyone could ever need ;)The OP specifically said they were allowed 3.5 regional feats and even suggested taking the feat himself. We are working within what is allowed in the campaign.Eldrich Knight
Weapon Proficiency: Must be proficient with all martial weapons.militia feat is 3.5 and might as well be considered a homebrew feat
He is only allowed a scarce few things from 3.5, the regional feats are slightly more powerful than normal feats, but you can only take One regional feat and only at 1st lvl, also they are completely useless as prerequisite for other feats.
Saying we can not help somebody because he uses a houserule or homebrew of some kind seems a bit simple.
then he doesn't need our help 3.5 is all the help anyone could ever need ;)The OP specifically said they were allowed 3.5 regional feats and even suggested taking the feat himself. We are working within what is allowed in the campaign.Eldrich Knight
Weapon Proficiency: Must be proficient with all martial weapons.militia feat is 3.5 and might as well be considered a homebrew feat
He is only allowed a scarce few things from 3.5, the regional feats are slightly more powerful than normal feats, but you can only take One regional feat and only at 1st lvl, also they are completely useless as prerequisite for other feats.
Saying we can not help somebody because he uses a houserule or homebrew of some kind seems a bit simple.
sorry I should have put *sarcasm* at the end of that sentence ;)
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Half-Orc(Toothy) Ranger 2(Natural Weapons: Aspect of the Beast)/Transmuter
STR 17 (15 BASE, +2 RACE)
DEX 14
CON 14
INT 14
WIS 12
CHA 7
You end up with 3 primary natural attacks and 9th level spells. Add your level bonuses to STR and use a headband to get your required INT for spells. Also, if you choose the Shapechange subschool you can get a 4th natural attack(gore) for several rounds per day.
I don't think we can use the Prc classes in the book or feats. Only the equipment and regional feats are allowed. So I was thinking militia would be good because I only lose one caster level, right? Also how about the Arcane/Sage bloodline for a sorcerer build instead of a wizard. Would that be more helpful for a EK build?
If Militia is allowed, take it. Losing caster levels is a pain. The only way I would go in for a fighter level is if you come across a way to remove arcane spell failure and plan to wear armor heavier than light, or if you find you really need one more combat feat.
Your backstory (found during a skirmish he unexpectedly knew how to use magic) screams sorcerer over wizard. Sorcerers are frowned on by some (myself included) in a mash-up with Eldritch Knight, since it takes you a level longer to qualify for the prestige class. However, since you can take the Militia feat, you're coming out even with a standard wiz5/ftr1 (not that the feat doesn't allow you to qualify as wiz5 instead, of course). Sorcerer also allows you to pick up levels in Dragon Disciple if you ever finish your EK progression.
Arcane/Sage bloodlines are very nice. Abyssal is good for a fighter-mage because of the bloodline power that increases strength. You can access it via Eldritch Heritage feats if you don't want to take the bloodline, but you'll like by feat-starved as it is. You can crossblood with Arcane/Sage to get the best of both worlds, and then use the alternate human favored class ability to offset the spell known loss - but then you're behind in HP. I'd focus on non-AC defenses (e.g. mirror image, displacement) and play smart - you should be OK.
Also note that humans can trade their racial bonus feat for a second +2 to an ability score if the Advanced Race Guide is on the table - very good for someone needing both strength and a casting stat. The feats you listed taking above could do without Toughness as long as you play proactively and hold back to use spells against large bruiser opponents.
I want to say thanks for the advice so far, I appreciate it. However, I notice some posts aren't actually answering what I am asking. So to clarify some things, this is what I am trying to accomplish.
15 point buy this is the point buy I need to use for my stats NOT anything else.
My character is base off a concept of mine and I want him to be a caster focused mage(wiz or sor) but can be able to fight when he has to. Also he will be human nothing else.
Therefore, I am still debating what spellcaster class to use, wizard or sorcerer. Also this is why I am asking, should I just focus on Int and don't have to worry about physical stats to fight because I can use my form spells to help out? Or should I distribute my stats more evenly to help me when I get into combat? That is why I am asking if I should go the normal model or get that regional feat for the proficiencies?
Thanks, hopefully that clears things up.
Barb 1 (rage), oracle 1 (change AC stat to Cha, easier to cast cleric spells from items), Sorc 3, DD 4, EK 10, sorc 1
Stats| Str > Cha > Con > rest
CL at lvl 20: 15. So you will eventually get lvl 9 spells, but at lvl 23.
Bab @ lvl 20: 16
Str: base + race + item + rage/blood rage + Polymorph + inherent = a lot. Dependimg on campaign and WBL, you should be able to break 50 str at lvl 20. With polymorph, you can get a lot of primary natural attacks, typically 6 + haste, all at your maximum attack bonus. Easy albeit expensive to buff natural attacks.
You will be quickcasting maximized elemental vampiric touch for 70 temp hp when you are in melee, making it easier for your healer to keep you up, adding your 7 attacks to the picture. You will be able to contribute to the party in an alround way, eg healing with a staff of Heal, melee/tanking, debuffing, etc.
This is my build in progress, I have a wizard Cohort focusing on ranged touch attack/ray for debuffing, also giving more breadth to arcane spells in the party.
Have you taken a look at the Warmage PRC from the Age of Mortals book. It is a Dragonlance book.
... You should do alright. People will tell you EK sucks... and it does, during the first few levels...
I bet 99% of people that say EK sucks have never played one.
Ups, correction, fighter instead of barbie
... You should do alright. People will tell you EK sucks... and it does, during the first few levels...I bet 99% of people that say EK sucks have never played one.
This.
Level 20 EK can have 16 BAB, CL 20 and level 9 spells (Magical Knack + Ioun Stone)
Use that last +1 attack with a (Perfect) Quickened True Strike
What's with the dex in you build? Man up.
str 18 (+2 racial here)
dex 10
con 12
int 14
wis 10
cha 8
Get in there with 18 strength and a greatsword, you wanna live forever?
Feats: Militia, Toughness.
OR; Flip the +2 racial onto int, now you're 16/16 and a more likely blaster type.
... You should do alright. People will tell you EK sucks... and it does, during the first few levels...I bet 99% of people that say EK sucks have never played one.
It's very possible. EK's are difficult to play for the first several levels if playing in a high optimization game... around level 10 or so they come into their own, in my experience.
Before then, sure, a Magus will be better to play. However, Ek's have access to utility and higher level spells that a Magus wishes they could have. Ek's are just a slightly gimped wizard: a caster level or two behind in exchange for better HP, BAB, Saves, and more combat feats. And most people know that Wizards win.