Hey all.
THIS IS ABOUT PFS, PLEASE KEEP THAT IN MIND
So I will be playing through first steps at gencon.
Anyway to be blunt I am a tad overwhelmed with choices and a bit confused as to what you do at low levels.
I have read the guides and the issue is that they all seem to talk about things like "And once you get beast shape 2 you will be pouncing, so here is what to do with that"
THIS IS ABOUT PFS, PLEASE KEEP THAT IN MIND
Or "Totem summons are great as past 5th level it is a standard action to cast"
So I have a host of questions.
1. I am looking at 3 options for class.
1a. Standard Druid (Human)
1b. Treesinger Druid (Elf)
1c. Saurian Shaman.
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2. I am wanting an animal companion here are the onse I am looking at.
2a. Gian scorpion (I was thinking of givign up my free feat to give it +2 Int so it can have skills and feats)
2b. Sapling Treant (Its cool, but I am not sure how good)
2c. Ankylosaurus (Great Tank pet, with light armor it has a HUGE AC)
Most guides say that you should have 3 action on any given turn.
1. Your AC goes in and hits stuff
2. Your Summon goes in and hits stuff
3. You either go in and hit stuff or cast a spell.
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Now that sounds great, however it seems like that takes a lot of feats, spell focus/augment summoning are kinda needed, so is natural spell. so are a lot of others.
So how do most low level druids do it all?
Or do we say "screw it" and just let the AC handle stuff for a few levels?
THIS IS ABOUT PFS, PLEASE KEEP THAT IN MIND
Is treesinger worth it?
you lose a feat, you lose WS into animals, yeah plans are cool and all but thats a fairly big loss.
How bout Saurian shaman?
level 6+ it seems awesome, but sub 6 you seem to suck.
any advice?
THIS IS ABOUT PFS, PLEASE KEEP THAT IN MIND
Thanks all.
The saurian shaman does not appear on the list of additional resources that are legal for PFS play, so that makes things simpler. Same with the giant scorpion. And the treesinger looks to me like a roleplayer's paradise, where you're looking for effectiveness. Standard druid, ankylosaurus. And don't worry about low levels; a wizard in a dress holding a stick can be a melee monster, when it's all on a roll of the dice. Just dive in and have fun. :)
ETA: Make sure to get a scimitar for the crits, and at least 14 Str. I'm in a Serpent's Skull game where at level 2, the 18 Str druid is constantly saving our butts by hitting things consistently, hitting them hard, and critting frequently. He's an experienced player, so I'm sure that he has a plan -- and he's our MVP without ever summoning anything. Just to give you an alternate perspective from the guides to high-level play that you read.
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Hey all.
How bout Saurian shaman?
level 6+ it seems awesome, but sub 6 you seem to suck.
any advice?THIS IS ABOUT PFS, PLEASE KEEP THAT IN MIND
Thanks all.
Let me start with the most important advice. Play what you want to play. PFS doesn't require super optimized characters. Druids are a very powerful class, if you end up playing a slightly sub optimal druid it really, really won't matter very much. You'll still be contributing and very likely will still be one of the more powerful characters at the table.
Shamans and Treesingers have huge amounts of flavour. IMO they should be picked for the flavour far more than for the mechanics
I've never seen a treesinger played but my impression is that it really isn't worth it. Plants are nice and cool and everything, but animals are way more versatile in general. And relatively few PFS scenarios are set in the wilderness.
All the totem shamans are a great choice IF you're happy with the Animal Companion that you get (or if you're going a pure caster non Animal Companion kind of druid and like the domain choice). The Saurian Shaman is most definitely the most powerful of the Shamans. I'd personally claim that it is overpowered, especially when compared with the other Shamans
I've played a Lion Shaman (only up to L6 so far) and it definitely worked out fine. The only level where it is arguably underpowered is Level 4 (losing Wild Shape). The lion isn't quite the best Animal Companion but its quite competitive and reasonable at all levels. At L5 the ability to summon templated Animal Companions in a standard action is huge. A young Dire Tiger (especially Augmented with the Augmented summoning feat) is a VERY powerful option and more than compensates for the inability to Wild Shape.
In PFS I generally do NOT want to use my animal companion to its full advantage, especially not while summoning. From a social point of view, its kind of a dick move to have 3 characters in play, each with multiple attacks. It just causes you to dominate play to a significant extent. And, in the vast majority of cases, its NOT necessary. Its nice to have the option in your pocket for those encounters where things go south, mind :-).
For PFS play I'd also advice making a far less one dimensional character than the druid guides suggest. My character has reasonable Str, Dex, Con AND Wisdom. Not great, obviously, but reasonable. This is because you don't know who you'll be adventuring with. One week you might be with mages, rogues etc and you and your AC suddenly become the front line and meat shields. Another week you're the spell caster and watch all the fighters and barbarians actually kill stuff. Still another week you're the healer.
With all the above said, I DO like Augmented Summoning as a feat. I really prize versatility and Summon is amazingly versatile. It allows you to memorize "weird" spells in the full knowledge that they'll be useful as Summons if necessary.
Oh, buy lots of scrolls as soon as you can afford it. You have lots of cheap support spells.
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The saurian shaman does not appear on the list of additional resources that are legal for PFS play
Its legal. Its in Ultimate Magic. Everything in that book is legal except the (relatively few) listed exceptions.
Its also overpowered and shouldn't be legal :-)
Oh, I read it wrong. Those are the things that "are NOT legal for play or function differently than written in the sourcebook". Whoops! I'll leave the discussion of whether you should choose a standard druid or saurian shaman to those who know them better.
So ok, great advice and the same as I give new people too.
Play what sounds fun....
Time to put my money where my mouth is, or in other words, shut up and play a treesinger...
Ok. So I am commited to a Treesinger. (God help me)
First choice is domain vs. AC (or PC in this case)
really no contest. if I'm gonna play a Treesinger I want a plant to follow me around.
The advantages of a plant companion....
They do not sleep (Plant type)
They are immune to all mind effecting (Plant Type)
They are immune to Poison (Plant type)
Ok there is more, read about it Here
So we have a great night guard, with lowlight and no need to sleep, so thats kinda cool.
So what one to take?
I am leaning Treant, but read all about it Here
Some of the others seem ok too.
Ok, thats as far as I have gotten. I am thinking hang back and summon while the PC smashes face?
Anyone have some help?
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So what one to take?
I am leaning Treant, but read all about it Here
Some of the others seem ok too.
Ok, thats as far as I have gotten. I am thinking hang back and summon while the PC smashes face?
Anyone have some help?
The AC of your companions are all going to be low. Which is going to make them awkward as sap shields (they're obviously NOT meat shields :-)) or combatants. Especially as they're NOT allowed to learn armor proficiency (ouch).
Personally, I'd take Carnivorous Flower. It just sounds more amusing to me. Especially when you get to Level 4 and it gets rage :-). On a practical level Scent is VERY useful and armor class of 15 at least doesn't suck.
But the treant is definitely the only one that is actually going to hit and do any damage in combat. It is also going to go down a lot. I think a fair bit depends on how you plan to role play the bond. If you're ok with a companion dying and being replaced then treant sounds good. But if you want to keep it alive then I'd likely go flower.
Given that the tree singer is definitely not overpowered (:-)) I think that I'd definltely plan on Summoning a fair bit. Which means that Augmented Summoning is insanely valuable. Its cliche and all that but
I'm repeating myself from above but personally I'd make sure that I'm at least competent as both a melee character AND as a spell caster. I'd make sure that Str and Wis are both at least 14 and keep Con and Dex reasonable as well. Dump Int or Cha to taste.
Personally, I'd go with something like (after racial adjustments)
Str 14, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 12, Wis 16, Cha 8
With the elven weapon proficiencies you're reasonable in melee, reasonable ranged. Plan on summoning a fair bit. Not at all a power house but should be viable.
I think someone on the boards pointed out that while plant companions cannot learn armor profs it doesn't say they can't wear armor so leather or masterwork studded leather barding is by RAW fine.
no armor does suck.
I think I will end up spending 2PP on a wand of mage armor ASAP.
While I cant use it, most groups will have someone that can.
And yeah I am playing it as an easily replaceable friend.
I was thinking after racials
Str: 14
Dex: 16
Con: 12
Int: 9
Wis: 17
Cha: 7
Yeah I know 2 dump stats suck, I could lower the Wis a bit and up the dumps.
I think someone on the boards pointed out that while plant companions cannot learn armor profs it doesn't say they can't wear armor so leather or masterwork studded leather barding is by RAW fine.
Actually you make a great point.
I think MW Wooden armor is in his future.
40 Gp for the armor and 150 for the MW is not a bad deal.
190 for +3 AC? Hell yes.
I think that you really can't go wrong with your choice of plant companion. The treant sapling is charming and can do some damage; the carnivorous flower is amusing as pauljathome said, and has scent and AC like the crawling vine; the crawling vine is slow but has grab, so it could take something out of contention; and the puffball is a speedy flier that uses Dex to attack with a Con poison, so casters watch out! Whichever tickles your fancy.
Since you're going elf, maybe rapier instead of scimitar, for the lower weight. But why such a low Int and Cha? Many levels from now, you'll be able to prepare one extra spell of a certain level; in the meantime, you'll have fewer skill points and a harder time persuading NPCs to your point of view.
well, I'll start with, your right.
I will only have 3 skill points/lvl and that sucks.
it will be Handle animal (odd that this is still needed for my plant companion.
and Perception.
Also 1 point will go into all class skills (or most) till they are all covered.
As for the low Cha.... at least in PFS I have found "go big or go home" to be the case with stuff like Diplo and such.
As I will not be dumping skill points into it... well to be blunt, screw it.
I will flavor it that I prefer plants to people and as such I am not good at talking to them.
However lets be honest here... It's all about point buy and the fact that a 7 gets you 4 points.
I'm not proud of it, but there you go.
As for weapon, I think early I will go with a short bow and try to be useful while the sapling brings the hurt. (Well as much hurt as 2 slams for 1d6+2 can bring).