I have a player who wants to play this archetype, and I just want to make sure I'm advising him correctly on his character. I've never had a summoner in a game, so this is all a bit new.
I should also mention that this a group of new players. They've played 4e, but not PF.
He has a gnome summoner with a biped eidolon. He used his evolution points for extra arms, and claws for those arms.
The concept at first was that the gnome would typically carry a sword, and when the eidolon was present the synthesist would be able to attack with the longsword as a twohanded weapon and two claw attacks.
Now here is my understanding of the situation.
If the gnome has the longsword, is it useable by the eidolon? From what I'm reading, this is possible. However, since he/it doesn't have the multiweapon attack feat, the sword attack would be at a -6 penalty, and the secondary claw attacks would be at a -10 penalty. Furthermore, since neither gnome or eidolon have martial weapon proficiency, another -4 is tacked onto attacks with the sword.
Even if he dropped the sword, he would still be at a -2 on the first claw attack, and -5 on the remaining 2 attacks. Even though he has 4 arms, he's capped at 3 attacks until a higher level.
Am I missing anything here?
As far as I know, the longsword would be a normal attack and the claws would be at a -5 as a secondary attack via the natural weapons rules.
am I missing something? why are the claws considered secondary? because he is using sword also? because bite and claws are normally both primary for an eidelon
Any time you use a manufactured weapon, all natural weapons are then secondary attacks
Natural Attacks Most creatures possess one or more natural attacks (attacks made without a weapon). These attacks fall into one of two categories, primary and secondary attacks. Primary attacks are made using the creature's full base attack bonus and add the creature's full Strength bonus on damage rolls. Secondary attacks are made using the creature's base attack bonus –5 and add only 1/2 the creature's Strength bonus on damage rolls. If a creature has only one natural attack, it is always made using the creature's full base attack bonus and adds 1-1/2 the creature's Strength bonus on damage rolls. This increase does not apply if the creature has multiple attacks but only takes one. If a creature has only one type of attack, but has multiple attacks per round, that attack is treated as a primary attack, regardless of its type. Table: Natural Attacks by Size lists some of the most common types of natural attacks and their classifications.
Some creatures treat one or more of their attacks differently, such as dragons, which always receive 1-1/2 times their Strength bonus on damage rolls with their bite attack. These exceptions are noted in the creature's description.
Creatures with natural attacks and attacks made with weapons can use both as part of a full attack action (although often a creature must forgo one natural attack for each weapon clutched in that limb, be it a claw, tentacle, or slam). Such creatures attack with their weapons normally but treat all of their natural attacks as secondary attacks during that attack, regardless of the attack's original type.
He has a gnome summoner with a biped eidolon. He used his evolution points for extra arms, and claws for those arms.Am I missing anything here?
Bigger problem....
You can't have extra arms and claws on an eidolon until level 4.
The eidolon's maximum number of attacks at lvl 1 is 3, this doesn't mean he can't choose to attack more than 3 times, it means he can't legally take an evolution that would grant him an additional natural attack that would exceed this limit.
Assuming first level, if the character wanted to do 2 sets of arms with only 1 pair of arms with claws it would be rules legal. With the penalty for not having the sword the character is punishing themselves however, not having a full BAB hurts even with a decent STR score. If the character is dead set on running with the longsword, either take the weapon prof as a feat or take a level of fighter to get the weapon prof and a bonus feat (but lose a spell casting level/eidolon level). Otherwise I would find the -4/-5/-5 attack routine (before STR) too much to deal with as a melee role.
As has been mentioned probably the best route early on is bite/claw/claw (0/0/0 before STR) for the biped.
Thanks, I think I'm clear on those points now.
Follow up question: IF the player decides to follow this concept, and at some level gains martial weapon proficiency, and decides to wield a weapon in more than one hand(remember he has 4 arms, and may want to go for six eventually), then the multi-weapon rules come into play (as in the multi-weapon feat in the bestiary). Correct? When is that line crossed? When the eidolon is using two swords and two claw attacks?
