I was thinking that this may be one of the better ways to pull off a sword and shield style character? Any thoughts would be much appreciated!
Human, 20 point buy
STR 12
DEX 16(18)
CON 14
INT 12
WIS 13
CHA 8
1 Finesse
1 TWF
3 Toughness
5 Iron Will
7 ITWF
9 Improved Critical: Rapier
11 Critical Focus: Rapier
13 Bleeding Critical
15 Shield Focus
17 Missile Shield
19 Improved Iron Will??
Ranger Style Feats
2 Improved Shield Bash
6 Shield Master
10 Bashing Finish
14 Shield Slam
18 Greater Shield Focus/Saving Shield???
It seems like to me that the Weapon and Shield style is best complemented by a higher DEX build... This allows the use of TWF, but also for early access of the various Shield feats. Notably, Shield Master and Shield Slam.
A rapier has a high crit, allowing for the triggering of Bashing Finish and critical feats more often.
I was shooting for a +1 agile rapier and a +1 bashing shield asap... After that, invest in the shield as armor, since Shield Master is awesome like that. Maybe later, make the shield agile as well.
I was going to take Favored Terrain: Urban, for a more effective Urban Ranger. (The Favored Community mechanic seems to suck). I was going for a sort of detective/vigilante/duelist.
Is this going to work out well? I might modify the build for PFS play.
Thanks everyone!
How about using 2 shields? I like 2 shield builds, and ranger does it well.
If using 2 different weapons, I'd not waste any weapon-specific feats that will only be used by one of the 2. Just get the rapier keen.
I'd drop the critical focus. Bleeding Critical sucks, the only good critical feats come later on, past where PFS play ends off (your current build would never even get a critical feat before PFS play ended, with the current set up).
After Ranger 6, you might want to consider multiclassing out.
2 shields... lame.
It isnt for PFS as of now, but it may be altered for it later.
The weapon specific feats are to trigger Bashing Finish, a free attack... i feel i ought to be triggering that as often as possible.
Though Bleeding Critical isnt as good mechanically, it has benefits. Either you run away, and the stupid creatures, or those that lack limbs, die off. Those that are smart and have limbs will waste a standard action healing themselves, which prevents a full attack reprisal.
I am willing to be convinced for a different critical feat however.
What would i multiclass to?
Fighter? With dual shields, Brawler is nice. Without them, Lore Warden is still pretty good. Possibly a sneak attack class like Viv. Alchemist to add some sneak dice to those attacks.
I just don't see it for this character.
He isn't a fighter primarily: He is more of a detective or bounty hunter perhaps. Being good in a fight is important, but having the skill points and class abilities are more important for a character like this in my opinion.
He is definitely not an alchemist.
I just don't see it for this character.
He isn't a fighter primarily: He is more of a detective or bounty hunter perhaps. Being good in a fight is important, but having the skill points and class abilities are more important for a character like this in my opinion.
He is definitely not an alchemist.
I say play it and have fun! Milking the absolute, most combat damage should be left to classes that specialize in that. No harm in trying different things, this build does not look gimped at all.
Yeah, I'm just looking for a sort of swashbuckling character, but would like to be more effective than a rogue would be.
Not looking gimped is a good start.
Dude, rangers ignore dex preqs for TWF. So skip a high dex and pump str (you won't need Derish dance or weapon finese either)
Don't conform to the stupid "oh, I fight with two shields" model that seemingly half of the forum suggests.
You need DEX but I'd try to keep STR higher
why keep STR higher?
by mid levels, an agile weapon gives me the same bonus to damage as a STR sword and board build. Plus, I need the DEX for prerequisites, I don't need STR for prerequisites.
A bit later, enchanting the light shield as a +1 agile weapon, then as a +5 Bashing shield gives me a +5 Agile Bashing shield via Shield Master.
Throw in some Darkleaf Cloth on leather or studded leather armor, a belt of DEX, and that should hold me until Celestial chain.
Though i would spend a bit more money on adding Agile to my equipment, I would only need a +2 or +4 Dex item, and no STR boosters. I think it ought to even out money wise... Possibly even be a bit cheaper.
Only reason I'm going with 12 STR for carrying capacity, and the +1 damage for early levels, otherwise I'd drop it down to 10.
Am i missing something?
Thanks for the replies everyone!
It looks like it should work out ok. You'll never be at the level of optimal many here think is nesseccary but it should work.
Build wise are you twfing at level 1? I ask because you'll be at -3/-3 with finess due to the shield's armor check penalty effecting finess this will go away after you get a masterwork one.
Also considering both of your weapons are light maybe have a look at Piranha Strike (assuming it's pfs compatable).
Re-read the ranger combat style description You IGNORE the preqs for your chosen combat style.
Just pick TWF as.your combat style and then you can dump dex to 7 for all you care (though I reccomend 12-14 max) and pump STR to the eyeballs.
You then do not need to WASTE two feats on Dervish and Finesse. Pick something better like Bonded Companion and Big Game Hunter.
Search Ginsu Master:.Str Ranger's Guide to TWF for Rangers. I touch on Weapon and Shield builds.
The problem with your build is you have taken Shield style as your combat style (they have nodex preq) and twf as.your normal feats (which need dex)
Switch it around.
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I have an eerily similar character in PFS(ranger 3/barb 2/fighter 1), but he has never really been thought out that much. Main features include: all over the place, potential for huge ac and some completely pointless feats(Dodge, Pwr Attack). That's what you get when you come up with a character in 2008, convert him from an archer to TWF during the system change and never bother to follow any philosophy or guideline. That said, there's a place for nimble high ac characters in PFS and you should not let such things as expected DPR or sub-optimal choices get in the way.
I mean, the campaign becomes pretty ridiculous with highly (or even somewhat if that thought goes to combat prowess)optimized characters. I saw an archer earlier that just about took on Defense of the Nesting Swallow alone. He'd drop two enemies every turn. From 100 ft or more to boot. The relative difficulty of some infamous scenarios(their bosses especially) which influences many players to come up with monstrous builds has less to do with the ability to cause damage or pull out awesome spell DCs and more with winning initiative to assess what you are up against and being able to take a lot of punishment in various ways(high touch AC, good saves, resistances, ability to cross various terrain challenges).
With all that in mind making a Dex-based melee character can work well. Good initiative, great Reflex save, high skill synergy, etc. Especially since agile weapons are readily available later on. Go for it.
And I do have one bit of character building advice I can give: consider Urban Barbarian. I have two characters with some levels in that archetype and it can work wonders. Sudden boosts and in agility or strength (or even robustness) go a long way. And the ability to use every skill with your main combat schtick while being full of raging dexterity is a godsend.
Or I could just switch to a kukri and take Piranha Strike.
why keep STR higher?
by mid levels, an agile weapon gives me the same bonus to damage as a STR sword and board build. Plus, I need the DEX for prerequisites, I don't need STR for prerequisites.
A bit later, enchanting the light shield as a +1 agile weapon, then as a +5 Bashing shield gives me a +5 Agile Bashing shield via Shield Master.Throw in some Darkleaf Cloth on leather or studded leather armor, a belt of DEX, and that should hold me until Celestial chain.
Though i would spend a bit more money on adding Agile to my equipment, I would only need a +2 or +4 Dex item, and no STR boosters. I think it ought to even out money wise... Possibly even be a bit cheaper.
Only reason I'm going with 12 STR for carrying capacity, and the +1 damage for early levels, otherwise I'd drop it down to 10.
Am i missing something?
Thanks for the replies everyone!
Well, you have to play the lower levels: at those you still can't fight very well with S&B and having a high STR will help. Even later high STR means you save a feat and +1 hit/dmg since you don't have to pay for the agile weapon.
Right, but since i need Dex for the TWF prerequisites (since i am using my Ranger feats for Weapon and Shield Style, to get those feats earlier) where am I going to pull extra STR from on a 20 point buy?
To justify a high enough STR to drop Finesse, and therefore agile enhancement, I basically would need to switch my DEX and STR: which isnt really possible, due to the minimum DEX requirements for TWF tree.
Also, I don't feel that NOT paying for agile is really that big a deal, since that money would basically be put towards a belt of STR AND DEX, whereas with this build i merely need DEX.
I don't see how i would be more than a couple points behind in damage my level 5 or 6. Sure, until then I would be behind in damage, but ahead in a few other areas. Again, however, by level 5 or 6, I would be about equal in damage, still ahead in initiative, reflex, several primary skills, and AC.
I mean ,can anyone actually show me that this isn't correct?
First of all, if you can rearrange your abilities you can squeeze a few additional points. I play rangers a lot and int 10 is more than enough, especially for humans: you may be thinking about combat expertise but that too I find unnecessary (3 ranks in acrobatics are enough for fighting defensively with -4 to hit and +3 AC when really necessary). Also, for S&B CON 12 is probably enough. Items help you qualifying for feats, so if you start with dex 14 (very easy) you can use items for getting the TWF feats. 6000gp for a +2 DEX (4000 gp * 1,5 since it's in the belt slot alongside STR) will last for long (I find greater TWF useless) and that's what you would have to spend on the agile property (later on you save even more money). DEX is useful for stealth, but the bonus it's not worth the investment in feats.
Also, if you want to tank you may consider one level of fighter (or spending one feat) and get heavy armor proficiency.