Crane style is really nice for giving you a defensive boost -- beyond that however we are going to need more information before we will be able to really help you.
Why don't you post up the race, stats, archetypes and feats of your character and we'll see where we can go from there.
+1 to Abraham spalding's suggestion to pick up crane style. That chain is, IMO, the best set of feats a monk can take.
Without knowing anything about your build: As a monk, you might consider specializing in combat maneuvers rather than dealing damage. Monks have high mobility and should be somewhat effective at getting in, disarming the mooks, and getting out of the fray to regroup. Play out combat patiently, go on the defensive more often than not. Don't be afraid to spend a turn using aid another so that another party member can pull off a more effective stunt.
Also consider general tactics, for example two scenarios
Scenario A:
Combat starts
Round 1
Monk Charges
Monster full attacks monk who has -2 AC
Monk gets pummeled falls over
Scenario B:
Combat starts
Round 1
Monk goes full defensive.
Monster Charges gets 1 attack, might miss.
Round 2
Monk Full Attacks at the monster who has -2 AC and gets a stunning fist in on the first go (now the monster is flat footed for the follow up attacks).
Monster Stunned.
Rogue sneak attacks the monster.
Round 3
Monk Full Attacks again, monster dies.
By altering the way you approach combat you can extend your survivability. As we can see Scenario B offers the monk much more and limits his exposure to damage significantly.
Also Monks make excellent grapplers. Ironically this is because of their defensive traits -- with their wisdom and monk bonus to CMD it can be very hard to break out of a grapple with them, especially if you have dodge and improved/greater grapple too.
Normally your GM should know what he is doing to the game by reducing/removing magic items, magic and gold. A CR 6 monster is only CR 6 if you have "normal" access to items and magic. Without magic weapons a low CR encounter can be undefeatable for the group, even if you have very limited access to magic etc.
What does the rest of the group? Have you had bad luck? Maybe something is going wrong and you have to talk with your GM.
I would talk to your GM. Monks are one of the more difficult classes to play, and as counter-intuitive as it might be, they are a class that benefits more from certain magic items than people might realize. I haven't played a monk in years so have never played a PF monk, but even in 3.5 they were tough to play in the circumstances you have described, and what I've seen here on these boards indicates they are even more difficult in PF than they were in 3.5.
You might need to revisit your tactics entirely.
Agreed, I haven't seen it, but most seem to say the monk is more item dependant rather than less. Yes, I know that seems counter-intutitive to the descriptions and fluff associated with the class.
That said, I would definitely recommend Crane style and/or heavy specialization in maneuvers rather than damage.
Besides I love tripping and disarming people.
Make sure the DM agrees to balance the ecouters with monsters you can hit without super magic gear.
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I've played in a lot of low magic, low gold games, and you really have to start thinking in terms of survival rather than heroics. In the real world, one hit can kill you, even if not from the initial damage. This can be true here, too, because now it is all about attrition. In a low magic, low gold game, you need to make sure that you are using appropriate tactics.
You should be setting ambushes. You should be using hit-and-run tactics. The moment you no longer have the upper hand in a combat, you should run away. In fact, you should probably think about running as soon as you get below half hit points. You should be thinking more in terms of defenses and debuffing than offense and buffing (unless you have encounter-ending attacks of course -- get those into play as often as possible).
And, of course, you have to hope your GM understands how he has changed your environment.
In a low magic game, as counter intuitive as it sounds I would play a full caster...
I definitely agree. I was assuming the OP wanted to keep the monk.
If a character switch is an option. I think a pure cleric is just about the best possible in a low magic campaign. Wizards have alot more power, but tend to be fairly item dependant for defense and survival.
I have always thought the best low-magic class to play from a pure mechanical perspective is a high-int druid. The high intelligence allows for more skills, and druids just don't need much "stuff" to be effective.
I do agree that any full caster is your best bet in a low-magic, low-gold game. Their powers and abilities are even more pronounced when they are one of the few able to do certain things.
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I have always thought the best low-magic class to play from a pure mechanical perspective is a high-int druid. The high intelligence allows for more skills, and druids just don't need much "stuff" to be effective.
I do agree that any full caster is your best bet in a low-magic, low-gold game. Their powers and abilities are even more pronounced when they are one of the few able to do certain things.
Maybe I'm not understanding the concept of 'low magic', but does it mean that casters are incredibly rare (aka players better have a REALLY good reason to play one), or that magic items are incredibly rare?
Anyway, if you wish to continue playing a monk, you can always try the Zen archer archetype. It lets you deal some decent damage at range, allowing for MUCH more full attacks (via a Flurry of Blows using a Bow + expending a ki point to gain an extra attack or turning your bow damage into your unarmed strike damage). This will allow you to stayin the back a bit more, and you should survive encounters more often.
I play with a stingy GM. One campaign (in Greyhawk, D&D 3.0) we were 12th level and using +1 equipments, mostly self-made, and if it wasn't an armor or main weapon slot it was probably mundane. Our current campaign he's loosened up a bit, and hands out decently powered magical items (magic items from an empire long past, mostly), but money to actually make/buy your own gear isn't much available.
It sucks. We're 12th level (again!) and things like ordinary ogres and trolls are a worry (because they can reliably hit us and still do enough damage that it's a problem, and healing supplies are low). So as the party Wizard (currently probably the 13th-14th most powerful wizard in the known world), I tend to 'Nova' any encounter and after that we're likely retreating to recuperate - unless we catch them at long range so our archer can go to town on them.
Point is, low magic (low gold = low magic by default) will radically change your tactics if you want to survive. Don't finish your turn adjacent (or within 5' step) of an enemy if you can help it. Take cover from archers, don't charge them. Learn when to run - and that's any time you don't have overwhelming tactical advantage.
Stealth, surprise, area effect attacks, ranged attacks, attacks from cover, dirty tricks, reconnaissance, misdirection. Wolf pack tactics. Hit and run. Anything to avoid a stand-up fight, heroics be damned!
Is 3.5 material allowed? If so you might consider the enlightened fist prestige class from complete arcane.
Then you'll have some spells to shore up your abilities.
I played in a 3.0 low-magic, low-money, low-tech (swords were considered so high tech, our blacksmith fighter PC fought with a shortsword just to show off, instead of the stereotypical big giant hammer!).
I played a human ranger. I switched between Point Blank Shot/Rapid Shot (longbow) and Two-Weapon Fighting with throwing axes, which I would melee or actually throw sometimes.
We mostly fought animals, undead, other humans, and the occasional magical beast. My favored enemy was animals, as I was also a hunter for my family.
My ranger really shined in that campaign. I had good Listen, Spot, Move Silently, and Hide skills (this was back before Perception and Stealth), plus Survival. I think I only had 4 + Int skill points too. I think I had Str 14, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 12, and Cha 8.
But hit and run tactics really worked well. I could detect foes before they found us. Archery meant I could get a full attack or two off before they closed. Even when they closed, I could usually just 5 foot step away and fire 2 arrows.
So I would suggest archery. Especially if it is a mostly wilderness campaign.
Also, mounted combat can be really effective in a low-magic, low-money campaign. Your mount can help in combat, and if the NPCs also start using mounted combat, you can get horses as treasure!
I agree with hit-and-run tactics as mentioned above. Also consider teaching the other players at the table and their PCs the "scatter & regroup" tactic. Do NOT stand and fight the Big Bad. That's a TPK in a low-magic, low-gold game. If your cleric doesn't have 5 wands of cures to choose from, stand-and-fight is a killer.
If your GM is the type to use Big Boss monsters, then hit-and-run from everyone is best. If you fight animals and brigands, then watch out for special abilities like Trip, Grapple, and Trample. Split the group and try for one-on-one point tactics. Teamwork is key.
In low-magic, low-money games the GM still can't limit your skill point selection. The Ride skill for avoiding damage while mounted is not to be underestimated. Same for Acrobatics to get your Monk through difficult terrain or around multiple enemies on the battlefield. Always maximize that Acrobatics skill, even if you have to "burn" a feat like Skill Focus to get +3/+6 on it. A Belt of Giant Strength, Boots of Striding and Springing, or Elven boots for that +5 to Acrobatics is something to save up for. Even before an Amulet of Natural Protection +1.
See if anyone at the table is willing to become the party crafter. The Advanced Player's Guide has some feats and skill selections to do Cooperative Crafting and even non-magical crafting that lead to some decent self-crafting in the party. Even a Wizard with the Scroll skill generating Magical Weapon +1 scrolls to use in battle every week can add up. A Wizard plus one other person at the table can share the load and get those +2 weapons made.
Yeah, in low-magic, low-money campaigns, PCs may need to select less heroic feats for more mundane feats and skills. The wizard may have to take craft wondrous items or craft arms and armor instead of a metamagic feat or spell penetration. The fighter might have to spend some points in Craft weaponsmithing instead of maxing out Climb or Intimidate or Ride. The cleric may have to spend skill points on Heal as she might run out of healing magic as she won't reliably have access to wands. The bard may actually have to spend time Performing to earn cash.
PCs may have to work and plan more as team than in normal campaigns.
See if anyone at the table is willing to become the party crafter. The Advanced Player's Guide has some feats and skill selections to do Cooperative Crafting and even non-magical crafting that lead to some decent self-crafting in the party. Even a Wizard with the Scroll skill generating Magical Weapon +1 scrolls to use in battle every week can add up. A Wizard plus one other person at the table can share the load and get those +2 weapons made.
Note that Extend Spell is very useful for any party caster, where Magic Weapon and Greater Magic Weapon are likely to see more use (as well as a variety of buff/protection spells). Wizards are especially hit by a low money game as their spell acquisition burns gold (not like it used to, but still).
Personally, I hate the dependence so many have on items to make their characters viable/survivable, but the other side of that coin is that most PF adventures are written with the presumption that characters will be equipped according to the generic rules regarding starting wealth/treasure.
To run a lower gold, lower magic campaign, the encounters either have to be adjusted or the rules do.
One suggestion that we've tried in an attempt to have characters less item-dependent is this:
Every 4 levels beginning at 4th, characters gain +1 to AC and all saves.
Every 4 levels beginning at 2nd, characters gain a choice of:
1 additional spell per day of the highest level they can cast
+1 BAB and +1 damage (BAB counts towards feat pre-requisites)
1 feat of any kind they qualify for
These basic bonuses go a long way towards offsetting the generic equipment that characters may be lacking. We still have magic items, but they tend to be rarer and more powerful - by the middle levels each character has perhaps 1 major item, a medium item and a couple of very minor items each, all of them unique... we don't have generic magic weapons or armor and divine spells are not available in scroll, wand or potion form.
Being a monk would be tough, I would shoot for most spellcasting classes, maybe Summoner and Oracle (Revelations produce powerful magic equivalent effects).
I would just say don't worry about magic items that much, just enjoy it. Back in playing 2E the only items you came across were your plunders, and you'd have a fighter using a +3 magical dagger because it is literally the groups best weapon.
Low magic is fine, and fun, as long as your GM isn't using it to punish power characters or try to control you. The environment effects you and NPC's alike, so just stick to the staples. Cloak of Resistance, etc... just avoid the big money gougers and the only thing you'll miss is the maximization.
Another problem with the low gold game is that interesting or flavorful magic items never get made because you can only afford to make the most efficient widgets for survival. And honestly, a LOT of magic items cost way, way, way too much for what they do.
Another problem with the low gold game is that interesting or flavorful magic items never get made because you can only afford to make the most efficient widgets for survival. And honestly, a LOT of magic items cost way, way, way too much for what they do.
For us its just the opposite. No generic cloaks of protection or +2 whatevers. Magic is actually rare and wondrous with every item unique, not something that can be mass-produced and traded like bubblegum cards. How is playing a Fighter cool if the only thing that makes you viable is your wand of cure wounds?
Quality builds, quality play and leave the Monty Hall mentality behind is what I say.
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I played in a campiagn for a few months (and DM'd a version of the same campaign later on) and ended up writing a rather generic list of tips to help some of the players adapt to a campaign without magic (yep, without any at all). It kind of assumes that you're playing a fighter, but work with me here.
A wise fighter manages this resource carefully, and in a warrior campaign, this becomes even more important (since there probably isn’t a cleric around when you need one). In general, managing your hit points comes down to two things: saving them until needed, and restoring them when lost.
Saving Hit Points
Stay Alert: While no amount of preparation or feat selection can ensure that you are never caught flat-footed, every time you avoid giving up a surprise round or a sneak attack to a foe, you have gained an edge. Make sure somebody in the group—such as the barbarian or ranger—has a high initiative modifier (Improved Initiative is key) and a good Spot or Listen modifier.
Keep Your Distance: The reason that 1st-level wizards prefer magic missile to shocking grasp is that the former lets them hit opponents from a long way away. Learn this lesson well. Most characters in your group should carry a bow, or failing that, a loaded crossbow, when trudging through the dungeon. (If you have a big enough group, you can afford to have at least one character who specializes in ranged combat.) Assuming you aren’t ambushed, chances are you will be able to get off at least one shot at your opponent before melee begins. While the few points of damage dealt by that shot may not seem impressive when compared to your average sword- or axe-swing, those may be the few points that keep the monster from getting another full attack against you later in the encounter. In fact, in most fights, the longer you stay out of melee range, the better your chances of success. The exception, of course, is if your opponent has better ranged attacks than you.
Smaller Fights Are Better: Though a sorcerer may complain about only having two bugbears to incinerate with his fireball, the fewer opponents faced by a fighter simultaneously, the better. In most rounds, you can only damage a very limited number of opponents (unlike a typical spellcaster), but many opponents might be able to damage you. Never let an enemy escape (he’s probably going for reinforcements), and never let an enemy shout a warning. If one of the goblins carries a horn, take him out first. If there’s a big drum in the middle of the guard post, put an arrow through it right away.
Avoid Unnecessary Fights: Just because a half-dozen orcs are standing between you and the entrance to the enemy’s fortress doesn’t mean you have to fight them now, or ever. Despite the oft-repeated advice never to leave enemies behind you, if you do your job right, an enemy avoided now can easily become an enemy avoided forever. Do you really think those orcs are going to stick around to fight you after you have defeated their master and set the castle ablaze? Just because you can fight the orcs doesn’t mean you should. Even though the result of the fight seems a foregone conclusion, all one of those orcs needs to do is score a key critical hit to make the fight much more costly than you had anticipated.
Restoring Hit Points
Take Care of Yourself: Each character must be much more self-reliant when it comes to healing. If possible, every PC should carry around a supply of potions. If you don’t have enough potions to restore you from 0 hit points to full normal hit points (assuming average rolls), you’re taking a serious chance that you won’t be around to see the end of the adventure.
Use All Available Resources: An often-overlooked option for any character is to pick up alchemical items which aid in natural recovery. These items range from ointments and potions to candles and incense. Although they may have a hefty price tag attached to them, most of these items are well worth the gold.
Rest: When all else fails, take time off from fighting. Every day of rest is another few hit points for the next battle. Make sure you have at least one character with some ranks in the Heal skill—long-term care dramatically reduces the downtime between adventures forced by lost hit points.
Edit: Most of this is either taken from or adapted from the Complete Warrior D&D book, as that was the edition we were running at the time.
Another problem with the low gold game is that interesting or flavorful magic items never get made because you can only afford to make the most efficient widgets for survival. And honestly, a LOT of magic items cost way, way, way too much for what they do.For us its just the opposite. No generic cloaks of protection or +2 whatevers. Magic is actually rare and wondrous with every item unique, not something that can be mass-produced and traded like bubblegum cards. How is playing a Fighter cool if the only thing that makes you viable is your wand of cure wounds?
Quality builds, quality play and leave the Monty Hall mentality behind is what I say.
Its hard though without a ton of rules adjustment. I mean any monster with a save based attack will instantly be a higher CR, because you are expected to have certain level of cloaks of resistance.
Even something as low CR as ghouls and ghast can absolutely wreck decently high level parties without cloaks of resistance. Unless you guys play a party of elves.
I would be up for the challenge. The game is too easy as it is. ;)
I was running a group for a warlock (converted from 3.5), an inquisitor, and a ranger/rogue/shadowdancer. It was an all 3/4 BAB party, and without a primary tank, it was almost always an almost TPK, even with encounters at or below their CR.
So the game might be too easy for larger parties, but for smaller parties, or non-optimized parties, it can be a challenge.
Another problem with the low gold game is that interesting or flavorful magic items never get made because you can only afford to make the most efficient widgets for survival. And honestly, a LOT of magic items cost way, way, way too much for what they do.For us its just the opposite. No generic cloaks of protection or +2 whatevers. Magic is actually rare and wondrous with every item unique, not something that can be mass-produced and traded like bubblegum cards. How is playing a Fighter cool if the only thing that makes you viable is your wand of cure wounds?
Quality builds, quality play and leave the Monty Hall mentality behind is what I say.
When you have X gold and X gold can buy you a magic sword, you get a magic sword, or things with DR/magic eat you. And +1 magic swords are among the cheapest of magic items (armor being cheaper).
Bottom line, unless your GM does a LOT of adjusting, you need certain equipment to survive in a fantasy world. You need magic weapons to hurt things. You need more AC to get hurt by things less. You need buffed saves to avoid being charmed/petrified/poisoned (etc.etc.). Players KNOW this.
There are better ways to make items wondrous and unique. Intelligent items is one way. Scaling bonuses is another (you only ever need one magic sword if it scales with your level). More robust masterworking is yet another (so you don't NEED magic to get a sword that does extra damage or armor that's tougher). Exotic materials. Permanent blessings from the gods.
Do you have to give players the kitchen sink (or even WBL)? Of course not! But give them enough to brave the challenges they'll face, or they'll very quickly learn that running is their first and best option.
Could someone explain hit and run tactics in PF. I have played D&D for 20 years. In that time certainly there were times in which our party has fled, but many of those times prove disasterous because at the end of the day most characters move at similar speeds. If you have to flee from barbarians or monks your screwed.
I have never had an adventure where I was in position to set the ambush. We have managed surprize rounds a few times but full on we control the terain and set up the battlefield the way we want long before the enemies arrive has never come up. Most adventure plots involve investigating and raiding enemy held territory. That means they are the ones who get to defend.
If you mean lots of ranged attacks that can certainly be done but you still see many enemies close the distance.
Yeah... but you can do worse than skill focus(acrobatics) at least.
Don't forget to fight defensively and I really suggest grappling when you can -- you've got a really high CMD with defensive combat training (10+6+4+2+3+1+1+2=29) meaning it's going to be rather hard for them to break out of your grapples.
Fighting defensively will also provide you with a +3 to AC and a -4 on your attack rolls... that hurts but if it gets you to the second round of combat then you can make up for it there once the lines are settling in more.
See if he'll allow you crane style even though it's from ultimate combat -- my monk just tanked and killed a 5th level orc barbarian tonight at level 2 because of it (warning, I was a master of many styles and had all three crane style feats because of it).
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If the monk croaks, play a straight cleric.
Laugh at the wealth restrictions as you apply Greater Magic Weapon and Magic Vestment to make your weapon enhancements better than anything your party can manage. Giggle with glee as you don't have to spend gold you don't have on scrolls to learn your spells.
Last time a DM tried a 'low magic and low wealth' game, 3 of the 6 players ended up becoming clerics after characters died. Small wonder.
Could someone explain hit and run tactics in PF. I have played D&D for 20 years. In that time certainly there were times in which our party has fled, but many of those times prove disasterous because at the end of the day most characters move at similar speeds. If you have to flee from barbarians or monks your screwed.
I have never had an adventure where I was in position to set the ambush. We have managed surprize rounds a few times but full on we control the terain and set up the battlefield the way we want long before the enemies arrive has never come up. Most adventure plots involve investigating and raiding enemy held territory. That means they are the ones who get to defend.
If you mean lots of ranged attacks that can certainly be done but you still see many enemies close the distance.
Gnomez... in my experience "hit and run" and "flee" are not really the same thing.
When we want to use "hit and run" tactics, we usually accomplish that through battlefield control spells, exploiting terrain or utilizing speed.
Throwing an "entangle" spell on a group of goblins can do a lot to slow them down, or at least separate them so you can divide and conquer. Even things like "obscuring mist" can allow you to move to a tactically superior position and then get a round or two of ranged attacks on the enemy. Mounted attacks on unmounted enemies can even allow you to full attack with ranged weapons while you move to remain out of their range.
Plopping a wall down can also allow you to get a party-wide full ranged attack round as the enemy has to go around the wall. Grease, web... well, you should get the idea. It's not about "running away" it's about staying out of range while you pelt the enemy with ranged attacks.
"Hit and run" generally means hit, move, regroup, hit again, repeat as nedded.
You generally need to use terrain or other means to slow down your opponents or use Stealth to hide from them, such as running around a corner and jumping in the bushes.
Commit sepukku and roll up a caster. Man, the other guys are two of the least item independent classes in the game and you're stuck with monk? A druid would be good here as would a cleric (or another sorceror or summoner). Basically any full caster that doesn't rely upon money/items to learn or store his spells known.
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Abraham Spalding had it exactly right, definitely don't be charging into fights. That's the biggest mistake I see with Monk characters - they have high dex, win initiative and charge in and get smacked for it. Heck, that's the biggest mistake I see any melee characters do. They charge into a bad position and get pounded for it rather than waiting for a coordinated attack among the melee-capable elements in the group.
Use your first round to chuck some shuriken or stealth around into a better position to attack some squishy targets like archers or casters or go full defence. Let the summoner and the sorcerer summon some fodder and let him use his eidolon's HPs rather than you using yours. If there isn't anything squishy to attack that doesn't put you in trouble, wait for the battle to come to you. Buy a weapon with reach and carry it around even if you're not proficient so baddies eat AoOs just to get up to you, even if they are at a -4 to hit.
Be a patient little Fonzie monk and hold onto those HPs.
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i would say take the archetype "sensai" and stay in the backround buffing your teammates. monks suck without magic. its sad but true, in 3.5 we had the vow of poverty but in pathfinder we are heavily dependent on bracers of armor, monks robe, and stat enhancers. what is really sad is that fighters are better then monks in low and no magic games.
also look at Qinggong Monk for the barkskin and scorching ray abilities and as you get closer to 8th you can pickup restoration to really max your support role.
Could someone explain hit and run tactics in PF. I have played D&D for 20 years. In that time certainly there were times in which our party has fled, but many of those times prove disasterous because at the end of the day most characters move at similar speeds. If you have to flee from barbarians or monks your screwed.
I have never had an adventure where I was in position to set the ambush. We have managed surprize rounds a few times but full on we control the terain and set up the battlefield the way we want long before the enemies arrive has never come up. Most adventure plots involve investigating and raiding enemy held territory. That means they are the ones who get to defend.
If you mean lots of ranged attacks that can certainly be done but you still see many enemies close the distance.
Gnomez... in my experience "hit and run" and "flee" are not really the same thing.
When we want to use "hit and run" tactics, we usually accomplish that through battlefield control spells, exploiting terrain or utilizing speed.
Throwing an "entangle" spell on a group of goblins can do a lot to slow them down, or at least separate them so you can divide and conquer. Even things like "obscuring mist" can allow you to move to a tactically superior position and then get a round or two of ranged attacks on the enemy. Mounted attacks on unmounted enemies can even allow you to full attack with ranged weapons while you move to remain out of their range.Plopping a wall down can also allow you to get a party-wide full ranged attack round as the enemy has to go around the wall. Grease, web... well, you should get the idea. It's not about "running away" it's about staying out of range while you pelt the enemy with ranged attacks.
Well that is just smart but when I think of hit and run I think strike, leave, regroup, attack from where they are not expecting, and repeat. This is really wise if you are a lightly armored harassing force ment to keep the enemy off balance prior to a large force battle or a small army against a large army. In PF this seems harder to have happen first there is the problem of matched speed. Second limited terrain of a dungeon. We burst into the room fire arrows, make a sneak attack, blast a spell and hustle back the way we came. They follow.
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Second limited terrain of a dungeon. We burst into the room fire arrows, make a sneak attack, blast a spell and hustle back the way we came. They follow.
And if you do this, but with your monk entering the room all by himself (or other fast, high AC guy), then running back to where the rest of the group is set up and waiting in the room down the hall, then its an ambush.
You can do more complicated ambushes, of course, but they all involve luring people into fighting in the spot where you want to fight. Traps and snipers are all good things to have in an ambush spot if you can arrange them, but they aren't necessary.
Yeah, definitely don't combine encounters.
Handle each encounter on its own, and don't let anyone bring in any more adversaries.
I was running a group of 3, and the PCs had a bad habit of getting in a fight with 1 encounter, then having one PC wander around, opening doors or sneaking around, and running into even more encounters. Four CR 6 encounters are fine for three 6th level PCs, but one CR 10 encounter is pretty tough!!!! :-O
Heck, splitting a CR 6 encounter into two CR 4 encounters makes them easy! Use walls, clouds, difficult terrain, etc., to split opposing forces and then focus on one, then the other.
For hit and run goodness, have a pair of archers alternate between full attacks and full moves (or move & 1 attack).
Yeah if we attempt that style of ambush we run the risk of giving a runner the opportunity to notify the rest of the complex.
Though I can see where this might give the opportunity to have cover or even a trap set which can certainly help.
Second limited terrain of a dungeon. We burst into the room fire arrows, make a sneak attack, blast a spell and hustle back the way we came. They follow.And if you do this, but with your monk entering the room all by himself (or other fast, high AC guy), then running back to where the rest of the group is set up and waiting in the room down the hall, then its an ambush.
You can do more complicated ambushes, of course, but they all involve luring people into fighting in the spot where you want to fight. Traps and snipers are all good things to have in an ambush spot if you can arrange them, but they aren't necessary.
You can do that. It'll often work. One bad roll or trap of their own and the monk is toast.
Plus, even if you lure most of them out into your trap, if one goes to alert the rest of the complex you're in trouble.
The time to think out a retreat strategy is before you engage. In the above situation you should already have your retreat strategy in place so that if the rest of the complex becomes alert to your presence you can kill what you can and then bolt.
Smoke sticks are a great retreat tool, and alchemist fire makes an excellent ambush weapon. The use of caltrops and difficult terrain to lure them through helps in making good your escape as well.
I tend to run Silver standard games and I also adopted the Dark Sun/4e method of keeping my characters in line with the monsters as presented in the bestiaries but i have also removed some of the more fantastic elements/Abilities to keep them in line.
With a little effort on the GMs part to accommodate the low magic low gold world, even the lowly master-crafted weapon becomes worth it's value. Magic weapons of any sort should be cherished and pretty much all of the items in my world have names and back stories.
It's WAY cooler to own Tsaroth the Reaper of Kings than generic +2 longsword. To know that the item you are holding used to belong to the Demon Prince Yrgrissil when he slew the King of Nostlund when the world was young? Full of win.
The time to think out a retreat strategy is before you engage. In the above situation you should already have your retreat strategy in place so that if the rest of the complex becomes alert to your presence you can kill what you can and then bolt.Second limited terrain of a dungeon. We burst into the room fire arrows, make a sneak attack, blast a spell and hustle back the way we came. They follow.And if you do this, but with your monk entering the room all by himself (or other fast, high AC guy), then running back to where the rest of the group is set up and waiting in the room down the hall, then its an ambush.
You can do more complicated ambushes, of course, but they all involve luring people into fighting in the spot where you want to fight. Traps and snipers are all good things to have in an ambush spot if you can arrange them, but they aren't necessary.
You can do that. It'll often work. One bad roll or trap of their own and the monk is toast.
Plus, even if you lure most of them out into your trap, if one goes to alert the rest of the complex you're in trouble.
OK, so you've got a retreat strategy. Your overall plan is to send one guy into the guard room to draw the guards out after him to ambush them, and then leave?
If you're fighting anything remotely intelligent, they're not all going to chase you. Someone's going to sound the alarm. Much less likely to happen if you hit the room hard.
Most likely, they're going to stay on high alert for awhile after you run, so if you're got any time-sensitive reason for attacking, you're in trouble if you just bolt.
In general, hit and run strategy is tricky when you're on the offensive, outpowered, in territory the enemy knows better than you do. It's great for harassing an invading army, less so for assaulting his home base.
Of course -- the idea is to send one guy in and he's supposed to provoke them into chasing them.
Really if that's your plan you deserve what you get.
You don't send in one man first off -- that's flat stupid: Just as stupid as assaulting the place head on would be (after all if an alarm is so readily available someone is going to sound it when you all attack too, or someone is going to hear the ruckus and do the same effect will be achieved).
Preferably you want to push them to come at you, this can be achieved in a number of ways. For the party described by the OP I would suggest summoned creatures from the summoner and sorcerer -- as back up when the monk goes to pull out (again if he comes out) you fireball the room -- bonus points if you set the place on fire as this causes them even more problems and chaos (in fact a fireball lead in can be a good thing too...) barring the fireball I like alchemical fires for the same effects.
Realize we are talking about a stronghold in a low magic setting I would point out that wood is going to be ever-present in the structure and of importance in holding the building up.
Also if the monk (and summons) drop one person and then gets out free then the hit and run is a success -- he dropped someone and got out, the idea isn't to take the entire place in one go it's to snipe one at a time. Small chunks that you can handle.
Also you don't strike on a repeated basis -- once you hit that spot you don't do so again (at least for a while) -- instead shoot a guard dead off the wall. Make it so they fear to travel in small groups -- standard guerrilla practices. If you can destroy supplies this is another great choice as that ruins morale and forces them to do something about the supplies possibly opening up more gaps in their defenses.
Again success here is multi-pronged -- if you get some to come out super kill that small group off -- if everyone comes out avoidance and getting inside while they are out to wreck havoc is the goal, if you get 50/50 then you should probably just back off and take the small losses you inflicted as your victory.
The key of course is to wage a war of attrition where you lose nothing if possible, anytime they are taking damage (or dying or losing gear) and you aren't is a victory.