Social fu: High-Charisma characters in combat

[Peter J]

After reading through Rogue Eidolon's guide to Rogues, I'd like to know what my options are for a high Charisma and high social skills build, in addition to the High Dex/TWF feat chain. What tricks does a face have to make them more effective in combat?

[blackbloodtroll]

Sounds like a bard or paladin you are talking about.

[Jiggy]

If you're a rogue and are already investing in CHA, then I suggest Improved Feint and max ranks in Bluff. Although it limits you to one attack per round, it helps make your Sneak Attacks more reliable. You can still full-attack when you have flanking or other favorable conditions, but when you don't, you can feint and sneak attack.

[Kybryn]

Solution: Improved Two-Weapon Feint
Mind you this won't work until 8th level. Before then, using Improved Feint will work just fine.

[Kybryn]

Another cool combo is: At 10th level, take Major Magic: Charm Person
Then use diplomacy on them to make them helpful. This will be super effective if you have 16 int. Maybe a Headband of Mental Prowess help you get there.

[Peter J]

Okay, so how about this for a build then?

1. Dodge
1. Two weapon fighting
2. Finesse Rogue
3. Improved Initiative 
4. Weapon Training
5. Combat Reflexes
6. Combat Trick (?)
7. Improved Feint
8. Resiliency
9. Improved Two Weapon Fighting
10. Opportunist
11. Improved Two-Weapon Feint

I'm not sure what I would take as a Combat Trick though. I could also switch from human to half-elf and take Skill Focus in Bluff?

[Kybryn]

Humans get a bonus feat, so that won't really make a difference, it's more a matter of preference, flavor, and the other abilities at that point.

edit: as for those feats, if you're going to be basing your build around your charisma skill, I'd suggest getting Improved Feint sooner, so that you can use it all the way up until lvl 8.

[Mort the Cleverly Named]

Peter J wrote:

1. Dodge

1. Two weapon fighting
2. Finesse Rogue
3. Improved Initiative 
4. Weapon Training
5. Combat Reflexes
6. Combat Trick (?)
7. Improved Feint
8. Resiliency
9. Improved Two Weapon Fighting
10. Opportunist
11. Improved Two-Weapon Feint

You forgot Combat Expertise, which is required for Improved Feint and Improved Two-Weapon Feint. I wouldn't actually recommend Improved Feint for you, since it still won't let you get a Sneak Attack in while moving and uses up a precious feat. Unless you are paired with someone who can provoke attacks of opportunity Combat Reflexes is pointless, and if you are paired with such a person you should go all the way with it and have a very different build.

I would highly recommend finding room for Offensive Defense, and possibly Osyluth Guile as well. As a Feint based character you will be more able to stay on the outskirts of combat than a flanking Rogue, and as such big defensive benefits against your chosen opponent will be very valuable. All Rogues should also consider Great Fortitude and Iron Will, but I doubt you'll be able to find room for all of that.

Another option to consider is the Intimidation Rogue. Between Enforcer, Sap Adept, Sap Master, and Shatter Defenses it can be one of the strongest Rogue builds around.

[Kydeem de'Morcaine]

I would suggest you consider dropping the TWF or at least waiting on it until after you've got all the other stuff you want.
Can still use high dex / finese and feint.
Then you can have your other hand ready for other things like a buckler or wand (UMD and high cha go well together).

It's a thought anyway.

[pH unbalanced]

There's always the classic social combat feat Betrayer.

Betrayer wrote:

Prerequisites: Quick Draw, Persuasive, base attack bonus +3.

Benefit: When you succeed at a Diplomacy check to change a creature’s attitude, you can draw a weapon and make a single melee attack against that creature as an immediate action. If you changed your target’s attitude to friendly or better, your target is considered flat-footed against this attack. If the target survives, it takes a –2 penalty on its initiative check for this combat. Once you attack a creature, its attitude becomes hostile.

The prereqs are rather expensive, if you weren't planning on going that way anyway, but if being the face is your main job, Persuasive will help with that.

[Hassan Ahmed]

If you need more "umph", I'd go for Mobility early on... and after Combat Reflexes and BAB +5, "Combat Patrol".

As a full round action, increase your threat range, move (position yourself) and take advantage of Combat Reflexes.

Make your own Sneak Attack, anyone?

Basically, "Freeze and no one gets hurt!"

[Drothmal]

Take ninja instead of rogue so your CHA also gives you ki

[Glendwyr]

If you're set on rogue, the rake archetype lets you drop a sneak attack die in order to make an Intimidate check, which plays nicely with Shatter Defenses (when you can finally take it).

[Breiti]

Osyluth Guile (Combat) Feat from Cheliax, Empire of Devils gives you + CHA mod to AC while figthing defensivly. Combine this with feats/traits that reduce the attack penalty for figthing defensivly you could get a pretty high AC.

Breiti

[Whale_Cancer]

Intimidate is your friend.

I'm playing a sap wielding Order of the Cockatrice Emissary Cavalier/ Rogue Bandit/Thug. You'll need the 'Enforcer' feat.

Deal nonlethal damage, get free intimidate check, deal at least 3 nonlethal damage (which is easy) and your enemy is frightened. This is at level 2.

I plan to develop some more tricks, get some reach and combat reflexes to aid in smacking the hell out of people as they run away.

(The concept is a highwayman, FYI)

[Please Don't Kill Me]

You could also go with the Scout Rouge Archetype in addition to Improved Feint. At 4th lvl the Scout applies sneak attack damage any time he charges 10ft of more, and at 8th lvl this improves to anytime you move 10ft in a round. So at 8th lvl your first couple of rounds look like this:

Round 1: Charge the enemy and get sneak attack damage, Round 2: Feint as a move then attack and get sneak attack damage, Round 3+: Repeat Round 2 until the enemy is dead then move 10 or more and attack next bad guy and continue to get sneak attack damage.

So that would be nice, add that with Knife Master Rouge Archetype (they replace different features so you can do both) and you get d8's to sneak attack damage when attacking with daggers and dagger like weapons (there is a list somewhere but I'm to lazy to find it). Then once you can get it pick up TWF and TW Feint, and a high Cha score will help with your feint.