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And taking something from someone's fridge after being told not to is stealing and rude.
For me, I don't mind if people I have over eat my food or drink. But in the instance that I did tell them not to touch something, it doesn't matter what it was, it is my house, and you don't touch it. Whether that is my child, my child's toy, the cake my girlfriend made for her work the next day or a pitcher of water. End of story. There's not even an argument that can be made to gainsay that.
Being a bum on pizza is just icing. You swore in a home that asked you not to, and stole from them after they asked you not to take something.
Gone.
The only fridge restrictions I've ever had in my home was "Don't take the last of something without checking with the person who bought it"Cool, so I'm not the only one who feels that way. You just don't take a man's last soda without warning him.
Some people don't respect the 'name on the container' rule. It's all about knowing the people you're with. In my shop office last deployment, you didn't leave anything in the fridge you weren't willing to lose, name or not.
I find that opening a beverage and drinking a visible amount wards people off. No one likes backwash.
IDK; man, at my job about a year ago there was a fridge phantom; whoever this motherf%+$er was would take sammiches that had bites off of them.
They want hepatitis?
Not necessarily.
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effectiveness: From a purely personal standpoint, over-using cuss-words robs them of their power. If you use the F-word like a comma, nobody is going to blink the next time you use it. If you never curse, then you have powerful words at your disposal: words that can have the impact you desire..
I'm in totally agreement on this point, but sometimes, sometimes you need an f-bomb because it is well earned. My personal favourite that caught the attention of everyone in my house was when I had a incident with a framing nailer and my hand. On the up side, my ride to the hospital was instantly aware of the severity of the situation...
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IDK; man, at my job about a year ago there was a fridge phantom; whoever this m+~&&&&%#~@# was would take sammiches that had bites off of them.
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But I find that people who need that kind of constant politeness, even after months of acquaintance, don't often get to the friend stage.
People are different. I have a close friend who lives pretty close by. We've known each other for about twenty years and over those twenty years we've spent a lot of time in each other's company and over at each other's places.
And if I am over at his place and ask for a beer, or whatever, it's mine for the asking. And same for him at my place. But I would not take anything of his without asking, and he would not take anything of mine. And if he asked me not to drink something, I sure as hell wouldn't drink it.
That isn't to say that we expect constant uptightness from one another. But it does mean that we respect one another's property.
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I'd have wanted you gone too.
It seems like you had a lot of little problems... but even by your own admission you WERE talked to about them.. you just didn't seem to put much care into the other people at the table...
As you've only been in the game for a year and a half... Your obviously not a close friend who can get away with the liberties I'm seeing here...
So, my DM just called me up and explained that I've been kicked out of one of my DnD groups, the hosts apparently feel as if my behavior has become unacceptable and right now I guess I just need to get a second opinion.
I feel both a little guilty and a little wronged here, personally I'm more upset on principle than anything else, the campaign was just feeling...tedious? I don't know, but I wasn't really having a lot of fun and just went as something to do, so I don't care as badly about being forced out as I possibly could be. Maybe my apathy contributed to my poor behavior?
This is a problem here.. if you aren't having any fun... and just find it tedious, are you not contributing to the game?
I've seen people who just don't care, who drag down the whole table.. but that wasn't included in your complaints...
So, the reasons cited were:1. Forgot to pay my share for Pizza.
In total, this happened 3 times this year (we've only met 3 times this year) and it's never happened before. I've been playing with this group for 1 and 1/2 years. The first meet this year I didn't have any money with me so I asked if I could just pay next time, so, next time rolls around (3 months later) and I just forgot to pay at all, hosts never reminded me about my debt or asked to collect pizza money so it slipped my mind. Same happened at my last meeting. I was never called/emailed/or talked to at any game (even by the DM) about this.
So you've only met 3 times this year... and you've forgotten EVERY time... Is there a reason they should think this isn't just your 'normal' behavior?
You asked permission for milk for the first few times, the just 'assumed' it was ok... If I was the host I would be afraid this was a sign of things to come. You can't afford the food... but you still plan on eating.
At our tables if you don't have the money, you either do not eat... or you ask someone at the table to cover you. We're all friends for 10-15 years, so it's not a big deal. But if everyone throws in their cash, and the host is 5$ short when the guy comes to the door... that's a problem.
2. I was not chipping in for snacks.This was something that I frequently did during 2011 (I usually brought chocolate donuts). I was never asked to bring snacks, I did it of my own violation. Eventually I just sort of stopped because it seemed like only I was eating them, I was never asked to continue doing this. And plenty of other members never brought snacks (although those people were absent frequently).
This happens a lot at our games... We have one player (the host) who LOVES to cook, and does a fantastic job at it. Most games she has brownies or cookies or pie or soemthing waiting for us.
When I DO bring chips or cookies or something... others usually pick her food anyway...
However, I DO still TRY to contribute sometimes. I think the big problem here is that this is in combination with the pizza issue. Your not contributing to the food.
Are you actually eating the OTHER people's snacks?
If theres a bowl of chips in the middle I don't really see much issue here.
3. Drinking the host's milk.The hosts did not mind this since the formation of the group, I asked at the beginning and just assumed they didn't mind from then on. Never a problem throughout 2011. Then the hosts moved further away in 2012, and they brought up that they didn't want me drinking their milk on session 1 2012 (apparently because the grocery store is further away...can't they buy more when they're there?) Alright, no big deal. I bring my own milk at the next session (amazingly I remembered). Third session I did not remember, and helped myself to some milk. Hosts never said anything.
This is cold... I'm honestly surprised at the idea of 'can't they buy more?'
Can't you BRING a quart of milk with you?? Any party store sells them. We've been playing at our current host's house for two years now... One of our players gets milk EVERY week... and asks EVERY week. I ask if it's ok to use one of their glasses for Water!
Helping ones self to ANYONE's fridge is unacceptable behavior.
I tend to buy more milk then I EVER drink... and I've told the milk drinking player that... and when I host, I have no problem with him drinking it... but he ALWAYS asks, and I'm ALWAYS glad he does.
1. 4. Problem with cursing.
Alright, this one is actually legitimate since I have cursed, DM has asked me since the beginning not to curse. But in my defense, it isn't often. The hosts never voiced this concern to me, never said anything during the game, and only ever asked the DM to talk to me about it. And tbh I'm on pretty good behavior compared to my other DnD game which has heavy cursing.
This would be a BIG one for me. I don't like cursing, I don't curse myself, and my friends and our table doesn't curse.
You've been asked to watch your language for a year and half now... and you just don't. The hosts never said anything to you... but the DM has! How many people have to tell you something before you do it? Your on good behavior compared to your OTHER DnD game... but what about THIS table?
How do you compare there? Every group has a different set of rules that you abide by. School, work, family, church... Table one... Table two...
Honestly, it doesn't really matter how old you are... teenager, adult.. either way, your capable of recognizing acceptable behavior.
Above all else, I feel like this whole thing just sideswiped me. I was never given any indication that my behavior was being a problem beforehand (aside from the one time about the milk and the very occasional "can you not curse at the table?").
What do you think? Was I really that bad?
Yep.
If I had a new guy start hanging around the table, who ate without paying, raided my fridge and swore at the table... All while being bored and apathatic for the game... I'd vote him off the island too.
I think from the hosts perspective, you were just showing up for the free pizza and milk and detracting from THEIR enjoyment of the game.
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IDK; man, at my job about a year ago there was a fridge phantom; whoever this m+~&&&&%#~@# was would take sammiches that had bites off of them.Your job should have drafted this guy. Problem solved.
I exepected that the unread note contained information that cake is inedible/poisoned :)
They should have said something.
If I have a problem player, I tell them within minutes, or seconds, of what I feel they did wrong. I don't let it go on for months.
As for snacks, we each bring our own. When we did order pizza, we never asked anyone to contribute who couldn't.
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Eh I'm sorta doubting they were budgeting out milk to such an extreme that it would upset the balance of the budgets by having a glass. While its if true that if they didn't want to take thei milk then that person shouldntg have , my point is I'd be embarrassed to even bring it up.
Anyways, maybe I just lived outside of America too long but as host if someone wanted something to drink from the fridge I couldn't see throwing a tantrum over it. Apparently I'm in the minority here. Honestly at some level it makes me think a lotta posters shouldn't host games :/. As a collorary to this if other players find out that he left over that it could make the game uncomfortable. Now this is all predicated in the OP not hiding details, as I myself wonder if there weren't also other things going on that hey didn't want him around for...
Oh no the balance of the cosmos lies on one players ability to not drink milk once every season dear god noooooooooo.
Seriously milk is cheap. Get over it. People are sounding way too tea party over this in my opinion
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The only relevent answear is the obvious one: you were making your hosts uncomfortable. While being a guest the only way to be a good guest is to be sensitive to your host and not make him feel bad for having you there. If you didn't manage to be awere well enough to their reactions to your actions, you were a bad guest.
That said, I never heard of a single person who could not be blamed of being a bad guest in some way to someone, sometime. Seems like you just didn't belong in that group of people - probably not a coincidence that you disliked their style of playing, either.
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You're seeing politeness as some form of interactive defect? Politeness isn't something that you just use as an introductive treat and then move beyond. It's part of basic mature interaction. I always try to maintain a form of politness even with friends. One might modify it as familiarity develops but it's not something you just blow off like a missle's nose cone.
You seem to have misunderstood and are perhaps viewing this from a single cultural perspective.
The point is that ALL interaction, including politeness, have serious social defects if not used in the manner that the other party expects.
One might modify it as familiarity develops
This is actually what I was talking about and what I'm poor at. Not modifying it as familiarity develops actually makes others believe you are disinterested in said familiarity.
Or rather I should say, it can, not that is does.
Back to the topic, I still personally view this as a bad guest AND a bad host. Why does it have to be one or the other? A guest was apathetic and insincere and a host was impatient and ungiving.
Still generally small offenses from my perspective though. Extreme reactions over trivial matters is a sign of emotional immaturity.
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Your extreme defensiveness when others respond to your initial query with an answer of "Yes, you were a bad guest," has convinced me that you're not actually looking for an honest appraisal of the situation. What you're actually looking for is some internet strangers to salve your pride/justify your behavior for you.
I told one player in my campaign, he was out of work, if he was hungry to help himself.
He said he couldn't cook or anything.
So one of my sisters called a game break, went into the kitchen and made spaghetti with meatballs. Made sure he ate his fill.
My mother told him to not worry about it. She gave him a box of crackers and a jar of peanut butter to take home so he could look for work and not pass out.
It is all about communication. If the hosts never said anything, then they should have. Otherwise, their guests don't know if the hosts are upset.
I put this situation one hundred percent on the hosts.
I put this situation one hundred percent on the hosts.
Ditto. These slights seem absolutely tiny and blown out of proportion, to me, so much so in fact that I might suggest that there's another problem? (Granted, I only ever play with close friends, so I can understand that it might be totally different territory).
If I were to kick someone out of my game, not tiptoe around the issue or exclude him from my next game, but actively ask him to leave... It wouldn't be because he was drinking my milk, but because I didn't enjoy playing with him or was otherwise uncomfortable around him. I wouldn't take it personally, though. I'd just put it down to a difference in playstyle.
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To the OP here is my personal opinion.
Yes you was being a bad guest. But with that said i think they should have talked to you and explained what the issues where and informed you that you had to change these issues or find a new group. Before just calling you up and saying you can't come back, it should have been made very very clear what you was doing was not cool first. Then if you keep doing it, then yeah, bye bye.
But consider this to be a lesson learned for the future.
Marsh makes a really good point. +1.
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To be clear, the host did talk to OPer about not drinking the milk. Did the host say, "If you drink the milk again, you aren't going to be invited back." Probably not. But then again, you should have to say something like that to an adult.
"Gee, you mean, there are consequences and stuff if I decide to be a total douchebag and disrespect the people I game with? Why didn't nobody tell me?"
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To be clear, the host did talk to OPer about not drinking the milk. Did the host say, "If you drink the milk again, you aren't going to be invited back." Probably not. But then again, you should have to say something like that to an adult.
"Gee, you mean, there are consequences and stuff if I decide to be a total douchebag and disrespect the people I game with? Why didn't nobody tell me?"
Eh I I'm erring on the side of saying te host was just sorta an uptight prick more or less. Honestly, it's milk.
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I suspect the milk wasn't the issue. It was probably the perceived disrespect.
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Eh I I'm erring on the side of saying te host was just sorta an uptight prick more or less. Honestly, it's milk.To be clear, the host did talk to OPer about not drinking the milk. Did the host say, "If you drink the milk again, you aren't going to be invited back." Probably not. But then again, you should have to say something like that to an adult.
"Gee, you mean, there are consequences and stuff if I decide to be a total douchebag and disrespect the people I game with? Why didn't nobody tell me?"
It's not about how much milk costs, it's about the fact that the guy was told NOT to drink it, and helped himself anyway. Same with the pizza; 3 times in a row didn't bother bringing money, and helped himself anyway.
If you seriously think this is about the money, then you aren't even reading the thread.
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Eh I I'm erring on the side of saying te host was just sorta an uptight prick more or less. Honestly, it's milk.To be clear, the host did talk to OPer about not drinking the milk. Did the host say, "If you drink the milk again, you aren't going to be invited back." Probably not. But then again, you should have to say something like that to an adult.
"Gee, you mean, there are consequences and stuff if I decide to be a total douchebag and disrespect the people I game with? Why didn't nobody tell me?"
My children, who I don't like cursing around, wake up every morning to a glass of milk and a bowl of oatmeal with milk in it....douchebag who I told not to curse in my house drank some of the milk, leaving me short in the morning for my children's breakfast.
Honestly it's more than milk...it's a disrespectful, self-absorbed attitude that refuses to follow rules. Get out of my house. You aren't welcome if my rules mean nothing to you and my possessions mean nothing to you.| 7 people marked this as a favorite. |
Well, this thread has accomplished one thing: now I know which half of the Paizo messageboard population will feel free to rummage through my fridge on game night. :P
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Well, this thread has accomplished one thing: now I know which half of the Paizo messageboard population will feel free to rummage through my fridge on game night. :PBut do you have anything good in there?
"Oh shit, it's game night, eat the good stuff before anyone gets here! GOGOGO!!"
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"Oh s*~&, it's game night, eat the good stuff before anyone gets here! GOGOGO!!"Well, this thread has accomplished one thing: now I know which half of the Paizo messageboard population will feel free to rummage through my fridge on game night. :PBut do you have anything good in there?
"Cane I have some of that lemonade?"
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It may just be my own experience, but by-and-large I play DnD with people I consider my friends. Even if they're "just gaming buds" if I'm willing to let them into my house then I figure it's hospitable enough to let them drink something.
As such, I'm not one to get uptight if a friend wants something to eat or drink.
Let me put it another way. There's been a lotta talks on the boards before about how hard it is to get a game going sometime. I'm not one to let small annoyances get in the way of rolling D20s. I had a discussion with my buddy last night about this, and I have to wonder if doing living campaigns toughens a person up so to speak. I mean you sorta get used to playing with people that have minor annoyances without it being a deal breaker. I suppose home games have a different standard? I dunno...
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My children, who I don't like cursing around, wake up every morning to a glass of milk and a bowl of oatmeal with milk in it....douchebag who I told not to curse in my house drank some of the milk, leaving me short in the morning for my children's breakfast.
Honestly it's more than milk...it's a disrespectful, self-absorbed attitude that refuses to follow rules. Get out of my house. You aren't welcome if my rules mean nothing to you and my possessions mean nothing to you.
I came back to say pretty something exactly like this, but Fakey beat me to it. When your 4-year-old wakes you up at 6am on Saturday morning and there's no milk for the Frosted Flakes, it doesn't make a bit of difference is the grocery is across the street or 20 miles away because it's not where it's supposed to be when you need it. And at 6am on Saturday morning, that would be enough to make me want to skin someone alive; namely the person that drank the milk I asked them not to drink.
-Skeld
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To be clear, the host did talk to OPer about not drinking the milk. Did the host say, "If you drink the milk again, you aren't going to be invited back." Probably not. But then again, you should have to say something like that to an adult.
"Gee, you mean, there are consequences and stuff if I decide to be a total douchebag and disrespect the people I game with? Why didn't nobody tell me?"
Exactly.
They DID talk to him about the milk.... they DID talk to him about swearing...
and that was told to us from HIS Side of the story. He's not even denying that.
The problem seems to be that Eiher A) he didn't respect their wishes seriously. or B) he expected 3, 4, 10 warnings with an 'Or Else' attached to them.
The hosts DID talk to him, he just did it anyway.
Eh I I'm erring on the side of saying te host was just sorta an uptight prick more or less. Honestly, it's milk.
Gotta say, I'm a bit confused by this. WHY does it matter WHAT he took?
Where is the 'it's JUST milk' attitude coming from?Why do people consider 'milk' no big deal? Would a soda be a more serious offense? A beer? A slice of cake? What difference does it make WHAT he takes?
Milk is more important to a household than the last beer would be. It's also something that you need in the morning before you have a chance to go replace it...
regardless once your asked to NOT do something... then you stop doing it.
Are we even sure there were kids in the host's house?
On a side note, this thread is telling me a bit about ya'all's alignment as well.
I'm still on the side of he shouldn't have drank the milk, but they shouldn't have been so much of a dick to him to kick him out after for all we know was one warning for a game that happened so few times a year that anyone could have forgotten those things in that amount of time.
Now, if it comes to light that he had multiple warnings before finally kicking him out then I will be the first to side with the host.
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Gotta say, I'm a bit confused by this. WHY does it matter WHAT he took? Where is the 'it's JUST milk' attitude coming from?
I'm not even sure how to explain it even better, I'll try though I suppose.
When company visits your house (be it friends, or professional visits of any kind, the Queen of England, or even some gamers), it's sorta courteous to offer something. Coffee, soda, beer if you got it. And if someone happens to want a glass of milk, Christ...ITS MILK. So no, it doesn't matter what the item is, there's a certain etiquette in hosting about offering something to your guests. Some of you do actually invite guests in don't you?
Was the dude wrong for taking it when he was told not to...I suppose so. But wouldn't have been an issue had the host been what I would consider decent.
People are also making huge assumptions that it was the last single drops of milk left for children's breakfast? We don't know if there are children, or if it was the last of it. Making a whole lotta assumptions there.
Anyways, I'll just say it. Who the hell is budgeting out the milk to such an extent that come game day (and more than once occasion) there is exactly the requisite amount for X numbers of children's breakfast the next day?
People are caught up on the entire "it's the principle of the matter". Save principles for things that are important, not whether a gamer is wanting a cup of milk to wash down a couple of chocolate donuts with. If people are really going to let a couple bucks worth of food get in the way of a good day of gaming, I dunno...doesn't really to make much sense to me.
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half of the posts seem to be gamers have social skills too, and are not social deviants who eat kittens. The other half seem to be saying Eating kittens is ok, as long as your at somebody's house and he didn't lock the kitten cage.
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Gotta say, I'm a bit confused by this. WHY does it matter WHAT he took? Where is the 'it's JUST milk' attitude coming from?I'm not even sure how to explain it even better, I'll try though I suppose.
When company visits your house (be it friends, or professional visits of any kind, the Queen of England, or even some gamers), it's sorta courteous to offer something. Coffee, soda, beer if you got it. And if someone happens to want a glass of milk, Christ...ITS MILK. So no, it doesn't matter what the item is, there's a certain etiquette in hosting about offering something to your guests. Some of you do actually invite guests in don't you?
Was the dude wrong for taking it when he was told not to...I suppose so. But wouldn't have been an issue had the host been what I would consider decent.
People are also making huge assumptions that it was the last single drops of milk left for children's breakfast? We don't know if there are children, or if it was the last of it. Making a whole lotta assumptions there.
Anyways, I'll just say it. Who the hell is budgeting out the milk to such an extent that come game day (and more than once occasion) there is exactly the requisite amount for X numbers of children's breakfast the next day?
People are caught up on the entire "it's the principle of the matter". Save principles for things that are important, not whether a gamer is wanting a cup of milk to wash down a couple of chocolate donuts with. If people are really going to let a couple bucks worth of food get in the way of a good day of gaming, I dunno...doesn't really to make much sense to me.
Wooooosh.
Do you only play online? Do you host games in your home?
I have to wonder if doing living campaigns toughens a person up so to speak. I mean you sorta get used to playing with people that have minor annoyances without it being a deal breaker. I suppose home games have a different standard? I dunno...
Um, yeah? Home games have a completely different standard. Do you often times go to someones house and deliberately do exactly what they ask you not to do? It's not even about the milk, it's about the OP being a selfish, inconsiderate mooch.
If he simply took something without being offered, it'd be rude, but not that bad. But he took it step further; he deliberately took what he was specifically asked not to. That's pretty much an insult, where I come from. Insult me in my own home, in any way, and your butt is out on the curb.
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...or drink milk without asking...
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When company visits your house (be it friends, or professional visits of any kind, the Queen of England, or even some gamers), it's sorta courteous to offer something. Coffee, soda, beer if you got it. And if someone happens to want a glass of milk, Christ...ITS MILK.
Sure, it's milk, but it's not offered milk. For your "making huge assumptions" screed, you're also assuming that he wasn't offered any other beverage, and there weren't any other beverages available.
I'm sorry, but in my house (and in many houses), milk isn't available to folks as a beverage. I buy other beverages (coffee, tea, soda, beer, wine, etc.) to have on-hand to offer folks. All of those last significantly longer (prepared or waiting to be prepared) far longer than milk does. I buy milk for my personal consumption, or for cooking, and given it's finite shelf life, I budget my purchase of it to last until the next time I go grocery shopping. When preparing my meals, there's few things worse than missing a critical ingredient for it's preparation - especially when things are on the stove cooking.
It really doesn't matter how cheap milk is, it doesn't matter how easy it is for me to go get more.
What matters is, it wasn't offered.
Further, it's just kinda abnormal as a beverage for a gaming session. I don't know how to explain WHY it feels odd/weird, but it does. My very first thought on this is that if I'm going to be at a social gathering somewhere, there won't be milk available. I'd better bring my own.
People are caught up on the entire "it's the principle of the matter". Save principles for things that are important, not whether a gamer is wanting a cup of milk to wash down a couple of chocolate donuts with. If people are really going to let a couple bucks worth of food get in the way of a good day of gaming, I dunno...doesn't really to make much sense to me.
So, if the same socially inept gamer starts rummaging your cupboard for a can of soup or vegetables, are you going to be equally amenable?
Maybe one day, long ago, it was expected custom that you gave free reign of your kitchen and home to those you invite into your home (though, I question that), but that's definitely not how it is today. There are customs as to how a guest acts in a place that is not their own, and getting into someone else's stuff isn't acceptable.
That's not saying that the current custom is being inhospitable, but when I offer a meal of spaghetti to the group I invite over, and someone says "I'd really rather have a sandwich," sorry, spaghetti is what's for dinner.