One example -
Can a bard take Many Shot at level 7. Of course he couldn't use until he hits level 8 for the +6 bab, but that way he is using many-shot earlier and chooses a different feat at level 9.
Another example -
A person with 12 strength can't use power attack, but they can with a +2 belt of giant strength. Can a character learn power attack before they get the belt - After all if the belt is ever lost, stolen, destroyed, ect they would then no longer be able to power attack but still have the feat slot taken up by it.
Nope, you can't.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
No. To qualify for a feat, you have to meet the prerequisites at the time you are taking the feat.
But regarding using a belt/headband to meet the prerequisite for a feat, I am honestly interested in whether that counts or not. My take has always been that once you have the belt/headband on for a day and the bonus becomes permanent, you can use it to meet the prerequisites for a feat. But my husband thinks otherwise, and we were never able to find a clear ruling on that one way or another.
Sorry, my search-fu failed me. I took a second look and it does seem to be spelled out pretty clearly and I'm not sure how I missed it.
"Some feats have prerequisites. Your character must have the indicated ability score, class feature, feat, skill, base attack bonus, or other quality designated in order to select or use that feat. A character can gain a feat at the same level at which he gains the prerequisite.
A character can't use a feat if he loses a prerequisite, but he does not lose the feat itself. If, at a later time, he regains the lost prerequisite, he immediately regains full use of the feat that prerequisite enables."
So yeah no taking things early. As far as belts/headbands go I always thought they let you qualify for feats.
|
No. To qualify for a feat, you have to meet the prerequisites at the time you are taking the feat.
But regarding using a belt/headband to meet the prerequisite for a feat, I am honestly interested in whether that counts or not. My take has always been that once you have the belt/headband on for a day and the bonus becomes permanent, you can use it to meet the prerequisites for a feat. But my husband thinks otherwise, and we were never able to find a clear ruling on that one way or another.
As far as belts/headbands/etc. as long as it is considered a "permanent" bonus then you can use it to meet pre-reqs. All of those items you mentioned DO in fact work. Otherwise some casters would be boned on hitting max level spells because they work the same way. If I have a Cleric with 14 Wisdom the only real way for me to cast max level spells is to either wait til level 20 and dump all my level ups into Wis, OR get a headband. Spells such as Bulls Str, Eagle's Splendor, etc. are temporary bonuses and they do not count for meeting requirements.
what about can a 1st level fighter who gets 2 feats to begin, take both Dodge and Mobility at creation?
Do you treat it as getting both feats simultaneously? Or one after the other?
One after the other, you choose the order you take feats.
As far as belts/headbands/etc. as long as it is considered a "permanent" bonus then you can use it to meet pre-reqs. All of those items you mentioned DO in fact work. Otherwise some casters would be boned on hitting max level spells because they work the same way. If I have a Cleric with 14 Wisdom the only real way for me to cast max level spells is to either wait til level 20 and dump all my level ups into Wis, OR get a headband. Spells such as Bulls Str, Eagle's Splendor, etc. are temporary bonuses and they do not count for meeting requirements.
That's how I see it too, but we weren't able to find an actual official ruling that supports (or doesn't support) that. Do you, or anyone, have a source that backs this up?
Click on the PRD and go to the Glossary page under the CRB.
While, RAW, you cannot take a feat before you qualify, it has been mentioned by SKR and JJ that doing so is not really a huge problem. It seems to be a houserule that at least one of them plays with in their home games. My group has considered implementing it, but we haven't started a new campaign yet and are reticent to change houserules in the middle of a campaign.
Mauril, it can have some adverse effects. Certain builds get access to "crucial feats" a few levels sooner and can cause some balance issues. Don't ask me which builds but it's in the same threads where SKR was talking and was like "no, you can't do this but I don't see why not."
I think the big deal was the Dimensional Agility line of feats and monks which, as far as I'm concerned, isn't a big issue. It becomes an issue if you start at high levels, but not if you slowly build to high levels (which is who we almost always play). Having dead levels without a feat isn't a big deal when you don't play those levels. It sucks when you have to play through them, and that's why I don't mind taking a feat early if you are going to qualify for it eventually.
The problem here that I've seen or encountered is that you sometimes reach the qualifications for a feat on a level when you don't gain a feat, so you have to wait for another level.
Many players have asked if they can take the feat the level before and "reserve it" until they meet the pre-requisites.
RAW may say no, but I give the player that option. It means they go a full level with a useless feat so that they can gain the feat when they qualify. That seems punishment enough already.
One of my friends is using it to get Many Shot and Improved Precise Shot at level 6 on his ranger, rather than having to wait until level 7 to get Many Shot.