|
So my wife has decided to run the Carrion Crown line, we have 5 players including myself. These are what is already being played.
Druid (Plains Archtype)Half Elf - Leopard companion, going for shapeshifting and being in melee eventually.
Alchemist (no idea on race) - Planning on throwing bombs at range
Witch (Dhampir) - New player, not an optimizer. Wanted to play a vampire, my wife steered her to the Dhampir which was accepted by the player.
Gunslinger (Musket Master) - Another player, doesnt know how to optimize; but has expressed needing help on that front.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now from what I can tell it seems we are in sore need of a melee / tanky type character, my first thought is a Barbarian (CaGM style eventually) but I wanted to see what advice others had to round out this group? Any thoughts are welcome.
|
Heavily recommend Paladin. The campaign is all about some pretty nasty horror stuff and the paladin abilities really shine in this campaign.
A cleric or Inquisitor of Pharasma would also be a great choice.
|
|
Heavily recommend Paladin. The campaign is all about some pretty nasty horror stuff and the paladin abilities really shine in this campaign.
A cleric or Inquisitor of Pharasma would also be a great choice.
Yeah the more I look at it, they were on my list of choices. Can a Cleric fill the role of melee/tank type since we don't really have one yet? or would that be better with Paladin or Inquisitor?.
|
|
Yeah the more I look at it, they were on my list of choices. Can a Cleric fill the role of melee/tank type since we don't really have one yet? or would that be better with Paladin or Inquisitor?.Heavily recommend Paladin. The campaign is all about some pretty nasty horror stuff and the paladin abilities really shine in this campaign.
A cleric or Inquisitor of Pharasma would also be a great choice.
I haven't personally played a Battle Cleric in pathfinder yet but I believe they can fill that role.
There is an optimization guide for clerics Here.
Oh and I believe Inquisitors are more of flankers than tankers.
If the Witch picks a Healing patron, she'll get restoration. Druid gets lesser restoration but not higher. With Paladin you will be capable of casting restoration from scrolls at least.
|
|
If you want to go for melee power, go Paladin. Cleric and Inquisitor make great secondary combatants, but neither are really meant to be the center of a party's physical combat lines.
Not that it can't be done, it just takes more work and very specific builds.
Fair enough, looks like I will look at Bohdi's Paladin guide, I am thinking Castigator style. I really like build plans and seeing what other people come up with.
As long as the alchemist puts ranks in disable device, you're good to go.
Any melee brute will do then, probably, but since we're talking about Carrion Crown here, I suggest playing a paladin.
You'll surely find enough targets for your smite evil, you have channel positive energy and some other means of providing emergency healing, plus you can be the party face, and in this adventure path, even aura of courage should be helpful.
If you look at the archetypes, there should be one that suits your style. You can either go all two-handed power attack, take a reach weapon and focus on AoOs and CMs, or both... or classic iconic s&B.
Edit: Uh, multi-ninja'd... That's what I get for having multiple threads open and watching tv while answering. ;)
|
|
As long as the alchemist puts ranks in disable device, you're good to go.
Any melee brute will do then, probably, but since we're talking about Carrion Crown here, I suggest playing a paladin.
You'll surely find enough targets for your smite evil, you have channel positive energy and some other means of providing emergency healing, plus you can be the party face, and in this adventure path, even aura of courage should be helpful.If you look at the archetypes, there should be one that suits your style. You can either go all two-handed power attack, take a reach weapon and focus on AoOs and CMs, or both... or classic iconic s&B.
Edit: Uh, multi-ninja'd... That's what I get for having multiple threads open and watching tv while answering. ;)
Yeah Alchemist DID infact take Disable Device and the Druid has a pretty rockin' Perception, and hes agreed to be the trapfinder and point them out to the Alchemist.
I decided to go with the 2 Handed power attacking Castigator Paladin with a Falchion, and probably Oath of Vengeance for the archtype. Was looking at Undead Scourge, but not sure.
Now that I think of it, switching out Channel Energy (as with the Oath of Vengeance) might be a good idea, as otherwise you have to be careful not to accidentally kill that dhampir you drag along when you use it.
But on the other hand, it is a great emergency heal-your-party-while-harming-creepy-stuff ability, it isn't really your problem if that dhampir stays too close, and it's a stupid idea to play something with undead affinity to energy types in a normal group anyway, soo...
I mean, that dhampir player is new, right?
Try talking him out of it, as he might not have realized that no one else but himself can heal him, and how bad that is.
Maybe he'd be content with playing a sorcerer with undead or shadow bloodline (fluffed as vampire bloodline)...?
Oh and I believe Inquisitors are more of flankers than tankers.
Totally disagree, with bane he's dishing good damage and with magic vestments he's easily snagging more AC from his armor/shield with less investment than anyone else.
|
Another option would be to go Battle or Metal Oracle. I think you can hand pick your spells to fit the campaign and you generally can pull off the tank role reasonably well (and get some skills to boot). Paladin is the obvious optimal choice though, but Oracle could work if you were actively avoiding paladin.
|
|
So here is what I made, Wife set an array of 18, 16, 15, 14, 13, 12, gave everyone 2 extra feats to start and 3 traits. Apparently shes toughening something's up in the adventures.. I am fairly happy with it.
Male human Paladin 1
LG Medium humanoid
Init +4 ; Senses Perception +1
==DEFENSE==
AC 18, touch 12, flat-footed 16 (+6 armor, +2 dex)
hp 12 (1d10+2)
Fort +4, Ref +2, Will +3
==OFFENSE==
Spd 20 ft/x4
Melee Mwk Falchion +8 2d4+7 18-20/x2
Ranged Crossbow, Heavy +3 1d10 19-20/x2
Special Attacks Smite Evil
==STATISTICS==
Str 20, Dex 14, Con 15, Int 13, Wis 12, Cha 16
Base Atk +1, Cmb +6Cmd +18
Feats
Skills
Languages Celestial, Common
SQ Aura of Good, Detect Evil
Combat Gear Mwk Falchion, Crossbow, Heavy, Chainmail
Other Gear Magic Items Equipped by Slot, Belt/Waist Slot, Body Slot, Chest/Torso Slot, Eyes/Face Slot, Feet Slot, Hand Slot, Head Slot, Headband Slot, Neck Slot, Ring Slot (RH), Ring Slot (LH), Shoulder Slot, Wrist/Arm Slot
Class Abilities • AURA OF GOOD: The power of a paladin’s aura of good (see the detect good spell) is equal to 1. (PFCR 60).
• CODE OF CONDUCT: 0 (PFCR 63-64).
• DETECT EVIL: At will, a paladin can use detect evil, as the spell. (PFCR 60).
• PALADIN WEAPONS AND ARMOR: Paladins are proficient with all simple and martial weapons, with all types of armor (heavy, medium, and light), and with shields (except tower shields). (PFCR 60).
• SMITE EVIL: 1 times per day, swift action to choose an evil target. Ignore its DR, take +3 to attack and +1 to damage. If outsider, dragon or undead, damage bonus is +2. Gain +3 deflection bonus to AC vs. target while smite is in effect (until target is dead or paladin rests). (PFCR 60-61).
• SMITE EVIL: 1 times per day, swift action to choose an evil target. Ignore its DR, take +3 to attack and +1 to damage. If outsider, dragon or undead, damage bonus is +2. Gain +3 deflection bonus to AC vs. target while smite is in effect (until target is dead or paladin rests). (PFAPSD CotV 63).
Traits • HUNTER'S BLOOD (Social): You earn a +1 trait bonus on Diplomacy when used to gather information, Knowledge (religion), and Survival when used for tracking when related to an undead quarry. Survival is a class skill for you. The undead have a +1 bonus on any roll to learn about you, as your family's fame precedes you. (WyFr)
• LASTWALL CAVALRY RIDER (Regional: Lastwall): From the moment you were old enough to walk, you learned how to ride the mighty warhorses of Lastwall. You gain a +1 trait bonus on Ride checks, and Ride is always a class skill for you. (PFCo: ISP 11)
• REACTIONARY (Combat): You gain a +2 trait bonus to Initiative checks. (PFAPG 328)
"
|
|
So here is what I made, Wife set an array of 18, 16, 15, 14, 13, 12, gave everyone 2 extra feats to start and 3 traits. Apparently shes toughening something's up in the adventures.. I am fairly happy with it.
** spoiler omitted **...
Looks pretty good, I assume the Ride trait is just for flavor and you instead plan on taking the weapon for your divine bond. (would not recommend the mount for Carrion Crown, not without being small sized first)
I keep forgetting Falchions are two-handed in Pathfinder. (because in real life they are one-handed)
I would not play an inquisitor or paladin alongside a dhampir witch.
|
I would not play an inquisitor or paladin alongside a dhampir witch.
Really not a problem unless the Witch is Evil. Heck, even Pharasma isn't anti-Dhampir, and I don't think any deity is actually anti-witch.
And even if the Witch is evil, some Inquisitors might not care. Just for example Gorum, Calistria, or Pharasma's Inquisitors are unlikely to care about morality per se...or at least their deities don't.
|
Why Crossbow? unless you plan to invest a ton of feats you should take something that uses strength to damage and you can get a full attack with....most people go with a composite bow with (str mod bonus) to damage. With the crossbow you immediately lose 5 potential damage per hit. I personally would go with sling until you get iterative attacks (or enough money for a mwk composite longbow (+5 str mod) then switch to composite bow....I think you would need around 850gp for it though.
It is described that witches are often harrased by inquisitors just because they are witches. No need to be evil.
And dhampirs are half vampires and thus not trustworthy per definition.
But not everyone has to take that kind of fluff serious.
Can a Cleric fill the role of melee/tank type since we don't really have one yet? or would that be better with Paladin or Inquisitor?.
Your paladin is always a solid choice. Though, if you want to deviate from the three suggestions above, there's also the Battle Oracle, who can make for a quite solid melee/tank type, with full spellcasting and less tie to alignment.
|
|
Why Crossbow? unless you plan to invest a ton of feats you should take something that uses strength to damage and you can get a full attack with....most people go with a composite bow with (str mod bonus) to damage. With the crossbow you immediately lose 5 potential damage per hit. I personally would go with sling until you get iterative attacks (or enough money for a mwk composite longbow (+5 str mod) then switch to composite bow....I think you would need around 850gp for it though.
Hes level 1, he cannot afford a composite longbow yet, (though I have no idea how he afforded a Mwk Falchion, so maybe he can) but you are right that it should eventually be his ranged weapon. (unless he plans to be mounted, then he should use shortbows)
It is described that witches are often harrased by inquisitors just because they are witches. No need to be evil.
And dhampirs are half vampires and thus not trustworthy per definition.But not everyone has to take that kind of fluff serious.
You seem to think that this is a bad thing. I like to call it "Roleplaying fuel".
Also I was under the impression that inquisitors of different religions would have completely different viewpoints. An inquisitor of Asmodeus is hellbent on bringing down enemies of the Church of Asmodeus, while an inquisitor of Pharasma would be more interested in rooting out and destroying secret necromancer cults, and an Inquisitor of Gorum just wants to get into fights.
If a witch is a devout follower of Pharasma would an inquisitor of Pharasma harass her because she is a witch? (assuming the witch isn't being heretical)
Witch is not evil, so I dont see an issue there.
As I said, the only real issue is the way she reacts to positive/negative energy, due to being a dhampir.
Everything else is really just giving you hooks for roleplaying, as long as that witch doesn't act against the paladin's faith (which eventually leads to PvP).
Re: paladin build.
I think you'll get along fine.
As has been said, I'd take divine bond armor or weapon.
For your four feats, how about Power Attack, Cleave, Cleaving Finish and Furious Focus...?
How does that sound: power attack without penalty, plus getting extra attacks from the other two (because you probably WILL oneshot most things in the low levels)...?
Oh, and one more suggestion: change the name from Redgrave to Redfield. The Redfields DO have a reputation for killing undead stuff. (SCNR)
|
|
It is described that witches are often harrased by inquisitors just because they are witches. No need to be evil.
And dhampirs are half vampires and thus not trustworthy per definition.But not everyone has to take that kind of fluff serious.
Firstly, where's that stated? It certainly doesn't apply universally. Like to, say, an Inquisitor of Nethys, who's more likely to die defending the witch from angry villagers than persecute one.
But for random NPC interactions, sure, it seems reasonable enough.
However, it is usually assumed that by the end of their first adventure together, PCs are comrades and will, y'know, vouch for each other and get along okay, having been through some serious stuff together. They may not be friends or agree on everything, but barring something much more awful than Class or Race they're comrades in arms.
That's not completely universal, but it's a good assumption to make.
|
What about a Cleric that focuses on Summoning? Sacred Summons allow summoning of certain monsters as standard actions. (You can ask your DM if the feat extends to celestial animals.)
With a Druid and a summoning Cleric, the party should be able to pour out enough monsters to tank any encounter.
If you are starting at level 1, a Cleric should be able to hold the line with a riding dog or 2. Just leave the damage dealing to the rest of the party.
As you level, you can summon, then buff and heal the summons to protect the rest of the party.
I would suggest the paladin with the archtype that hunts undead, cleric, or oracle (life or bones).
We haven't needed a bruiser as much as we've needed a tank.
And channeling vs. undead is very useful in CC.
I would suggest the paladin with the archtype that hunts undead, cleric, or oracle (life or bones).
We haven't needed a bruiser as much as we've needed a tank.
And channeling vs. undead is very useful in CC.
A paladin that hunts undead with a Dhampir in the group?
|
|
Why Crossbow? unless you plan to invest a ton of feats you should take something that uses strength to damage and you can get a full attack with....most people go with a composite bow with (str mod bonus) to damage. With the crossbow you immediately lose 5 potential damage per hit. I personally would go with sling until you get iterative attacks (or enough money for a mwk composite longbow (+5 str mod) then switch to composite bow....I think you would need around 850gp for it though.Hes level 1, he cannot afford a composite longbow yet, (though I have no idea how he afforded a Mwk Falchion, so maybe he can) but you are right that it should eventually be his ranged weapon. (unless he plans to be mounted, then he should use shortbows)
Bolded my original post a bit for clarity....
|
|
The druid should be able to fill the melee/tank role, but having two people in that role doesn't suck, either.
I play a largely successful cleric tank in PFS -- high AC, decent saves. Mediocre damage unless I pump it up with spells. It's doable, but you really need to spend a feat on heavy armor proficiency.
Battle Oracle might suit you as well.
Paladin as everyone else has suggested.
I don't see any really strong arcane power in your party makeup, either, but the Alchemist and Gunslinger can handle the damage side of the house for that. You might consider a Bard or battlefield control Sorcerer/Wizard type, as well.
A paladin that hunts undead with a Dhampir in the group?Indeed. Dhampirs aren't undead, and indeed are mostly known specifically for hunting them...so I see no reason the two wouldn't get along.
Good thought. I guess a good Dhampir would be fine as they are only half-undead. Plus Paladins are usually more about killing evil. If a good full undead met an undead hunting Paladin, would you expect the Paladin to kill it?
Good thought. I guess a good Dhampir would be fine as they are only half-undead. Plus Paladins are usually more about killing evil. If a good full undead met an undead hunting Paladin, would you expect the Paladin to kill it?A paladin that hunts undead with a Dhampir in the group?Indeed. Dhampirs aren't undead, and indeed are mostly known specifically for hunting them...so I see no reason the two wouldn't get along.
Hmm... You could play it up like the relationship between circle mages and templars in the Dragon Age setting.
The latter basically guard and monitor the former.
Normally, mages live in secluded towers, to protect the world from the dangers of their magic, and when one is sent out on a mission, one or two templars are sent with him to make sure he doesn't do anything stupid (like fleeing, using blood magic, and/or becoming possessed by a demon).
If a good full undead met an undead hunting Paladin, would you expect the Paladin to kill it?
I wouldn't put it past the Paladin... when I look at the Oath against the Wyrm, for comparison:
Slay evil dragons, as well as other dangerous dragons whether or not they are evil.
So, if a Paladin with an Oath against Undead encountered a non-evil undead who might, in his opinion, become a danger to society; I think he would attempt to destroy it.
|
|
Good thought. I guess a good Dhampir would be fine as they are only half-undead. Plus Paladins are usually more about killing evil. If a good full undead met an undead hunting Paladin, would you expect the Paladin to kill it?
Well, as per Golarion canon, they don't realy exist.
Assuming you want to include them anyway....well, I'd be inclined to say that an anti-Undead Paladin would be more skeptical of their reformed nature than most (they could be faking it, after all), and would, if convinced, still try to convince them that undeath itself was a bad thing, and they should work to escape their undead state.
But he wouldn't outright kill them or anything unless they, say, started eating innocent people alive or something like that.