In one of the more amusing industry work-arounds I've seen, BioWare spelled out what to expect from DRAGON AGE III at the recent PAX East convention. One problem is that EA has not officially confirmed DRAGON AGE III to be in development (possibly they were going to by now but the furore over ME3 has delayed things), so BioWare got around this by talking 'hypothetically' about what a 'possible' DRAGON AGE III would be like.
So the news so far is:
* No reused locations like DA2.
* You can equip henchmen again.
* No Kirkwall.
* More open, varied and 'French' landscapes.
* Less wheels of cheese.
* Decisions from previous games having consequences.
Pretty much what people wanted, then. Apart from the French thing, which just sounds odd.
That thing about more French landscapes makes me think we'll be headed to Orlais.
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* More open, varied and 'French' landscapes.
* Less wheels of cheese.
Arn't these potentially contradictory statements?
This would have been a day 1 must buy, going to wait a few weeks and see what the majority of people think about it.
Can't wait. I'm one of those odd ducks who liked DA2(*), as well as DA1, so I'm very excited for this.
Yes, it was strongly hinted in-game (can't remember which one!) that a future game would be in Orlais.
(*) yes, I could have done w/out the reused environments, and the ending that had you (keeping it spoiler free) do something no matter what side you picked, but these were ultimately small nuisances. YMMV.
Lord Foreshadow in the Mage tower library, I believe was the one to talk about Orlais.
Lord Foreshadow in the Mage tower library, I believe was the one to talk about Orlais.
I was thinking of the dwarven merchant and his "idiot" son moving on to Orlais in DA2, now that I think about it a little more. You could be right as well.
Ah, but what's important is which characters reappear from DA1 and DA2. I didn't play DA2 on advice from a friend but loved DA1. You'd get my money for DA3 if I could get Lelianna back. Morrigan as an option as well, maybe even a few of the characters from the DLC.
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You know I never really understood all the hate that DA2 gets, yeah its not as good as DA1 but its not a bad game. Sure the dungeons are a bit repetitive but the narrative is pretty solid and personally I feel that that is what's important in any kind of RPG.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
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You know I never really understood all the hate that DA2 gets, yeah its not as good as DA1 but its not a bad game. Sure the dungeons are a bit repetitive but the narrative is pretty solid and personally I feel that that is what's important in any kind of RPG.
I think the core is four botched features:
- DA2 is a pretty solid action RPG, but most fans of DA were looking for something else, namely an old-school tactical rpg. DA2 did a pretty good job hiding its tactical aspects, and suffered for it.
- DA2 was too engrossed in its "overarching story" for its own good. The companion stories seemed rushed and loveless. In fact, Vengeance's Story (on which a fairly major plot-point hinges) seems almost abortive. It flatly doesn't matter if you help him build the spoily. The end had to be achieved, and the game enforced that hamfistedly.
- The long timeline had much potential, with Hawke settling down, having kids, or even playing politics. Nothing like that happened, Kirkwall remains fully static to the point of beggars and market stalls not moving for 7 years.
- Lack of consequences. In a game that promoted itself heavily on the concept, any consequences very swiftly funnel back into the main path. Jade Empire had more consequences than DA2, not to mention DA1.
Will probably wait a while after release for a price drop.
BioWare is pretty hit and miss these days.
I think the core is four botched features:
- DA2 is a pretty solid action RPG, but most fans of DA were looking for something else, namely an old-school tactical rpg. DA2 did a pretty good job hiding its tactical aspects, and suffered for it.
- DA2 was too engrossed in its "overarching story" for its own good. The companion stories seemed rushed and loveless. In fact, Vengeance's Story (on which a fairly major plot-point hinges) seems almost abortive. It flatly doesn't matter if you help him build the spoily. The end had to be achieved, and the game enforced that hamfistedly.
- The long timeline had much potential, with Hawke settling down, having kids, or even playing politics. Nothing like that happened, Kirkwall remains fully static to the point of beggars and market stalls not moving for 7 years.
- Lack of consequences. In a game that promoted itself heavily on the concept, any consequences very swiftly funnel back into the main path. Jade Empire had more consequences than DA2, not to mention DA1.
Yeah I guess I can see that especially the first one, when you go in expecting one thing but another is delivered it can sour the experience though I could argue that neither game is a "tactical" RPG and is actually a hybrid Tactical/Action with DA1 leaning to Tactics and DA2 leaning heavily to action.
As for the rest I never really pay much attention to game marketing as they always overhype a new game so I can't speak to the consequences thing. I could have stood for some further development for Hawke as 7 years is a long time.
Oddly though I have to dissagree with the one point about the story being too controlling, maybe its just my interpretation but the way the game is framed the story is already written we actually know the outcome before the game even starts Hawke is gone and the Chantry is in chaos the game is filling in the details as to how that happens so everything has to find a way to fit in that frame. Especially the Vengeance story (though I will note I utterly despise Anders and anything to do with him, I have since Awakenings) so the out come of that story suited me fine regardless.
So yeah valid points all and pretty much sums up what I thought anyway DA1 good, DA2 not as good but has high points.
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I for one preferred DA2 much more than DA:O.
DA:O promised a new type of dark, gritty fantasy where there were shades of grey everywhere and heroes could become villains and villains could become heroes. Everything was supposed to be new and original.
What we got was a game where you played a Dwarf/Elf/Human Mage/Fighter/Rogue who was the chosen one destined to destroy the evil rampaging horde of nastiness. You had Dwarves with extravagant beards living in a mountain. You had elves in the forest communing with nature. You even had Orc analogues with the Darkspawn. Hell one of your companions basically ticked every dwarf cliche in the book (hard drinking, beard, loves to fight etc.)
DA:O was basically cliche central. Now that doesn't make it bad but it was not the groundbreaking original concept that was advertised.
DA2 was far more of what I was expecting. Shades of grey all over the place. What I loved about this game was that there was no clear villain and no overriding quest beyond making a life for yourself. It was more dramatic, more original and more intricate a story than Origins.
Sure there are issues with it (the same underground area got annoying for example) but overall I felt it was a far better story than the cookie cutter "stop the dark invasion" plot that we have seen a billion times before.
DA:O You could play as Dwarf/Elf/Human Mage/Fighter/Rogue
DA:2 you had to play a human
Both where RPG's on a barely disguised rail
Both had an overly complex companion control system that never seemed to work right
Both had good but not overly original story that the game's rails prevented from being great
In sumuppance; DA:O was a slightly better game than DA:2 and to me DA:2 felt like a replay of the DA:O
More news on DA3. Apparently BioWare are carrying out a gamer survery to get feedback on early ideas for the game, which has inevitably resulted in the info leaking out to the public. Character concept models are presented for feedback (the logo is fanmade, apparently).
Possible plot summary:
"A portal between the worlds unleashes hords of demons in the land, civil wars rip apart nations and the corruption is limitless. Someone is behind the shadows, drawing the threads which destroy the world. Time has come for the Inquisition.
Take the Inquisitor's cloak and lead the only force able of bringing light into the darkness. Choose the direct method and gather your armies, send spies into the shadows or engage in a political war, make friends and use your connections indirectly: it is up to you how you lead the inquisition. But you'll have to take lead of it from the beginning. Make your player a rogue, warrior or mage and set up your crew from up to ten (!) complex companions to lead them against those who attack you by systematically spying on, revealing and destroying them."
Another one:
The great nation of Orlais, the most powerful empire in Dragon Age, tears itself apart in civil war. The stout men and women of Ferelden struggle to recover and reclaim their nation from the horde of vile Darkspawn that lay waste to its lands a decade ago. The Chantry, the once-unified faith of the Dragon Age world stands divided. The Templar order has broken away, claiming the church has become too lax in policing the dangerous powers of the mages. The Mage circles have rebelled, believing the Templars have become too strict, too zealous in their duties, and too quick to slaughter those who step out of line. The world of Dragon Age is one on the brink of collapse, and when a desperate gathering in the name of peace becomes the epicenter of a magical blast that decimates the Chantry's leadership, it becomes clear that someone or something is manipulating events to drive the world into chaos. From the ashes of that explosion, some new rises: The Inquisition. As the Inquisitor, it falls to you to build up your power and martial your forces, uncover secrets and build connections across the world. You must explore forgotten spaces, uncover ancient mysteries and uproot those who would destroy the fabric of the world.
Hilariously, BioWare asked respondents to highlight words in the plot description that excited them. This particular test subject replied:
I have nothing to highlight.
Intriguingly, the game will apparently have a subtitle, kicking back against BioWare's recent trend for subtitle-less sequels:
Dragon Age 3: The Breach
Dragon Age 3: Exarch
Dragon Age 3: Inquisition
Dragon Age 3: Inquisitor
Dragon Age 3: Apocrypha
Dragon Age 3: Please Throw Us a Bone on This One, It Will Be Good, Honest
(note: one of these may have been made up)
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I don't think Dragon Age was 'world of cliches'.
"Dwarves Live underground" I was unaware that a caste society, with an outcaste, and dwarves who live on the surface being basically exiled was 'cliche.' Nor was the 'House of Lords' style and ancestor worship a common dwarven trope.
"Elves live in the woods and commune with nature." Elves live in woods, well those that are the exception and don't live in ghettos (excuse me 'alienages') in the cities where they are the bottom of the society. Also interesting that the Elves a) aren't long lived immortal beings anymore and b) They aren't masters of magic.
"You even had orc analouges" Well the Darkspawn are much different than orcs in procreation, origin, breeding etc. (Aside, I found it an untapped mystery that Dwarves can't do magic, but Genlocks can). They're also interesting in that (if the legends are true) they are the result of Man's actions.
"You are the chosen one." Not really, it's pretty clear in the text that the other 'origins' all result in dead characters when you don't chose them. Essentially you (the player) are 'the chosen one' when you choose who Duncan is going to. Also you don't even need to be the one who kills the Archdemon. Alistair and Logain both can take that role.
It also interests me in that the resolution of DA:O can change the history based on your actions. I'd like to see those choices impact a DA III. What is the effect if your elven rogue fights for greater rights for the city elves? Does your decision to allow mages out of the tower produce weal or woe? If you kill Zevran, what does that do to the plot? What about letting the "Father" go? Or the one awakened darkspawn in Awakening? If you forge the sword from Awakenings, it should unlock a quest when you steal it back from the rogues, etc.
I actually buy the AGE rpg because of the detail of Thedas.
I loved Dragon Age 1 and have bought every expansion for 1 & 2. The problem with the Dragon Age creators is after DA1 they promised and hinted and failed to deliver a better sequel. For example
1. Dragon age 1-Without spoiling you have a choice at the end of the game that carries forward into expansions and DA2. If you make that choice you are given the expectation that at some point it will come to a conclusion. The problem is DA Awakening sends you in a different direction and you only get little glimpses of the NPCS you loved in DA1.The final expansion for DA1 gives you about 1 minute of what you had hoped to see in the DA1 conclussion but then once again tease you.
2. DA2. whole new character. Bombs in comparison to DA1. Choices are limited and environments are reused often. Barely any mention of your DA1 character and some of your favorite NPC's from DA1 make cameos and once again you get your hopes up that you can get back into the DA1 conclussion. After that expansions are vastly improved but choices still dont matter.
I say bring back the Warden. Do it like you did in Mass Effect where he/she is rebuilt or something along those lines. Have him/her help in the storyline. Give us the answers from DA1 and wrap up the loose ends. Tell us the story of the dwarf with magical powers (is he a god?). give us the final battle with Morrigans mom and Morrigan. Bring back the old and new NPCS and let us fight/romance with them again. Make it epic.
All I want to know: Will DA3 have an Awesome Button?
After DA 2 And ME3 I am waiting till hear lots of good things.Biowares on my s@#~ list.
...and SWTOR...
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I also really liked Thedas as well. The Dwarves were simply awesome in Dragon Age I. The Darkspawn race was pretty interesting to me as well. The reused environments in II bothered me a bit. The story line of Mages vs Templars seems a little over done. I would prefer a return to the Darkspawn as the major villains.
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Well no expects the Spanish Inquisition....
I happened to enjoy DA I and II. DA I was overall better, but II had good and bad points. The dialog between characters was very well done in DA II. It did feel that they took way too many short cuts and came out with an overall good but not great game.
The DA series could learn a lot from Skyrim on creating a world. And Skyrim could learn a lot from DA about creating interesting characters.
There will be Dragons in Dragonage III? Right?
Cheers,
Mazra
Well, playing an inquisitor sounds to me like a fresh concept. If you look at fantasy literature, every inquisitor I ever heard of is clearly, irredeemably Evil. If Bioware can make this relevant and interesting, they have my full support.
I don't think Dragon Age was 'world of cliches'.
"Dwarves Live underground" I was unaware that a caste society, with an outcaste, and dwarves who live on the surface being basically exiled was 'cliche.' Nor was the 'House of Lords' style and ancestor worship a common dwarven trope.
Dragonlance (Hill dwarves are surface-living outcasts) and Discworld (the deeper the better, the closer to surface and light the lower status) for the first. Warhammer for the ancestors worship. Also ancestor worship always looked like an obvious standard for dwarves.
Still, DA dwarves are possibly the best portrayal of dwarves I have seen. Also, it goes away from the old cliche of all dwarves wear beards.
Bonus point: Varric. He is the patron saint of dwarven bards.
"Elves live in the woods and commune with nature." Elves live in woods, well those that are the exception and don't live in ghettos (excuse me 'alienages') in the cities where they are the bottom of the society. Also interesting that the Elves a) aren't long lived immortal beings anymore and b) They aren't masters of magic.
The closest portrayal of elves would be in The Witcher Saga where elves are indigenous (from a human viewpoint at least, dwarves and gnomes would contest that claim) people who were pushed back from their (again dwarves and gnomes would disagree) lands and into wilderness. Those elves who live amongst humans are second-class citizens at best (unless being mages but it has its own stigma attached).
"You even had orc analouges" Well the Darkspawn are much different than orcs in procreation, origin, breeding etc. (Aside, I found it an untapped mystery that Dwarves can't do magic, but Genlocks can). They're also interesting in that (if the legends are true) they are the result of Man's actions.
Tolkien. DA darkspawn are closer to Middleearth orcs, goblins and trolls than D&D.
Seriously, the Bioware took generic fantasy ideas ("cliches") and twisted them to suits their needs. I have often seen people automatically considering the very introduction of elf/dwarf term as "cliche", regerdless of the actual presentation of that concept.
I would disagree that darkspawn are anything like Middlearth orcs. Darkspawn spend their lives looking for "gods" to corrupt. Their blood or "their taint" is poisonous to all except Wardens. Without direction from certain darkspawn types they are wild and chaotic. If they take prisoners its to turn them into brood mothers or "taint ghoul" followers. They dont value treasure and only come above ground on the orders of the archdemon. Its speculated that different types/sizes of darkspawn are due to the origins of the brood mother (dwarf, human, elf, Quanari). i would day they have more in common with ghouls than orcs. Even the ogre was updated to look more ghoulish.
They fulfill the same intended role: they are force of evil lacking actual an personality (looking through the basic DA lens) - there are hints in the prof. Tolkien's notes that it was the primary idea behind the orcs but he was inconsequent in applying it by giving voice to a few goblins and orcs). They also both are an artifical corruption of other creature(s) instead of natural species of their own. They are also wild and chaotic creatures that achive little without oversight of greater evil (Hobbit as an earlier work deviates from that concept).
I completely agree with the poster's response of "I have nothing to highlight." Sadly, I cannot appreciate the humor thanks to EA & Bioware's design and business decisions.
I'm assuming that Dragon Age 3 will be available only through Origin; if that turns out to be the case, f#&! Dragon Age 3 at any cost. I know that every purchase I make from EA strengthens that dark entity of a corporation, but I've always been able to rationalize buying their products if the products in question impressed. I can't do that if D3 requires software that strokes my Program Files(x86) folder as rapist daydreams flit across its eyes.
Also, while there was a lot done right with Dragon Age 2, most of it was the game engine and not the content. So much potential and all EA does is demand an impossible street date; in the end, we lose half the game. I can easily see this happening with D3 and I'm far too cynical to hope otherwise. Sure, I'll grab a demo (delayed on PC, of course) if one goes up and wade into the hype, but I'm tying myself to the docks this time.
DA3 will likely need to be activated via Origin, but it won't be available solely through it (it'll be in a similar boat to MASS EFFECT 3, basically). You'll still pick up boxed copies etc.
I would be interested to know if EA/BioWare are thinking of this as a late-this-gen title or an early-next-gen one.