I am playing a fighter with an 8 wisdom so my will save sux more than normal.
Unfortunately I am also terrified of anything requiring a will save because more often than not they include somehow loosing control of your character which is not fun.
I am investing in cloak of resistance, headband of wisdom and considering Iron will. however to take Iron Will I will have to give up Lunge.
My question is this, as the primary fighter in my group would you evaluate the two additional will save points as opposed to the increased attack range that Lunge provides.
the Will Save is something that will come up only periodically while Lunge can be used almost every combat. but failing a will save can quite easily spell TPK especially if I am hit with something that turns me against my party.
your opinion?
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If you are the primary fighter in your group I would hesitate to take Lunge. I think of the primary fighter as someone that is up in the face of the opponent and Lunge is counter-intuitive to that.
I view Lunge as something good for a melee character that does not want to be frontline. Also, keep in mind Lunge does not help with any Attack of Opportunity situations. It is only good on your turn.
So - given the two choices I would probably go with Iron Will.
lunge + long sword is garbage, is that your build?
post your build for your fighter then ask if lunge is worth it.
My build.
Fighter (weapon master - Nodaichi)current level 6 (level 7 feat in question Lunge or Iron Will)
STR - 16
DEX - 16
CON - 16
INT - 13
WIS - 8
CHA - 8
Saves
Fort - 10
Reflex - 7
Will - 3
saves currently modified by a cloak of resistance +2
Feats
Weapon Focus (Nodaichi)
Dazzling Display (Nodaichi)
Combat Expertise
Combat Reflexes
Body Guard
Weapon spec (Nodaichi)
Shield of Swings
Shatter Defenses
Level seven feat in question (Lunge or Iron Will)
Character explanation
The character is built around being able to maximize offensive or defensive ability in one character.
Offensively the character uses a +1 adamantium Nodaichi to get lots of crit damage.(at later levels specializing in crit effects will become even more devastating). Dazzling display (current intimidate +13) and shatter defenses helps the character break through the defenses of high AC enemies.
Defensively the character can use combat reflexes, shield of swings and fight defensively to raise AC. at level 6 he is currently able to stack these abilities as a full round action to lose 6 on his attack bonus and only deal half damage on hits but gain +9 to AC. (CE = +2, fight defensively +3, shield of swings +4)
My character is something of a body guard. so combat reflexes and body guard are not negotiable because the character likes to stand in the thick of battle using body guard to add +2 to his allies AC. (unfortunately this would not be effected by lunge)
I think that if I could go back I would trade dazzling display for Iron Will since its too late for that I have to weigh Lunge vs Iron Will for my level 7 feat.
Note: at level 8 I plan to take Improved crit and will retrain that at a later level when adding Keen to the weapon is much more affordable.
Well... although it was never specified my GM says I can assume that my level 1 fighter feat was Dazzling Display so that at level 8 I can swap Dazzling Display for Iron Will which means I will take Lunge at level 7
works for me.
I plan on taking Improved Crit at level 8 and levels 9 - 13 are also accounted for.
If I have the money I can simply purchase a keen enhancement at level 8 but since I have other magic item needs I will take improved crit at 8 and change at feat to something else at level 12 when the Keen enhancement will be more affordable.
As for Power Attack, I never intend to take it because its counter to my character play style and I personally think its a highly over rated feat. My GM allowed me to use combat expertise as a prerequisite for Shield of Swings because it makes more sense that a defensive feat (combat expertise) be a prerequisite for a defensive feat (shield of swings) than an offensive feat (power attack) does.
Swap out shield of swings, it's not very good, grab power attack instead. The enemy can't hurt you if they are dead. It's not an overrated feat, it's almost required for most damage-dealing builds, and as a fighter, that's all you do, so do it.
But as for your original question, Iron Will. Lunge is nice, but the bonus to Will saves is almost required for your character.
Math says: PA is not overrated.
I agree with Shield of Swings sucking and an ally w/ prot. from evil obviating many of the worst outcomes of a failed will save (could still incapacitate or kill you; but at least you won't be turning on the party).
Lunge can be very good, but you need to build for it. It works excellent with Whirlwind Attack, for instance. If you're built around the Bodyguard feat, why not In Harm's Way?
PA is the the feat you can take if you a damage dealing fighter. Lunge is ok depending on the build, but by itself it is not really worth taking.
I would also boost the will save unless the GM is the type to hold back.
The Nodaichi is two handed.
I know that Power Attack is an awesome feat but it just does not fit the character in terms of style and personality.
In fact I think that I am going to buy the Keen enchantment and take the Iron will feat, rather than buying items to improve my will save and using feats to raise my crit chances.
to be perfectly honest... that fits the character style much better also.
You could also try to invest more in role play instead of roll play.
not to flame... but since your not at my table you havent the slightest idea how we play or what my motivations are. grow up.
With wisdom of 8 you will need more than iron will. This of course assumes a GM that will target will saves. If he is not as likely to do so then you can use your resources for other things.
A helm that let's you command thought a mind blank 1/day? Costs 43,000 gp, at CL 15; crafts for 21,500 gp. Lasts 24 hours, so it's a nice first line of defense at higher levels, until it's dispelled.
If you took dazzling display as a fighter feat you can sub it out for another combat feat. The ability to sub feats out is a fighter ability in the core rulebook. That might free up your feats so you can take iron will with a regular (nonfighter) feat. - Gauss
yea. Im thinking about dropping Dazzling. I like it for flavor though. So i want to keep it.
I think I figured it out though.
take Iron Will as a feat and buy keen so that I can take lunge at level 8 instead of improved crit.
If you are the primary fighter in your group I would hesitate to take Lunge. I think of the primary fighter as someone that is up in the face of the opponent and Lunge is counter-intuitive to that.
I view Lunge as something good for a melee character that does not want to be frontline. Also, keep in mind Lunge does not help with any Attack of Opportunity situations. It is only good on your turn.
So - given the two choices I would probably go with Iron Will.
Don't forget that Lunge is like an extra 5' step when you want to make a full round of attacks as it doesn't take any actions to activate it.
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I like the fact that you're building your toon primarily around a character concept, and you should let that guide your decision. It seems like a decision you'll want to make for yourself.
Outside of that: Why tank your WIS if you're really concerned about your Will? Iron Will can be good to boost a fighter, unless you're really bad, which you kinda are. If you're gonna go that route, go all the way and get Improved Iron Will too (the difference it makes is so much more significant,) but I'd just play to my strengths at this point if I were you.