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if you plan on being a ranger AA then i say stay full ranger. if you're going to be a fighter AA then go AA.
ranger wizard/sorcerer AA is is very clunky and your spells will suck all around.
this is mu current archer build im playing in my home campaign.
wizard 1-3
fighter (arcane armor training)
wizard 5-6
eldritch knight 7-10
Arcane archer 11-2
eldritch knight 13-18
arcane archer 19-20.
9th level spells and all the archery feats from pointblank to manyshot + damage increase feats + 3 extra item creation feats from wizard levels.
now if you want to be more rogueish drop fighter for ranger and do level 1 ranger (trap archetype) then 5 wizard.
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I'd go with Arcane Archer, but mostly because I think it's a neat idea, and I prefer arcane spells to the ranger's moribund spell selection. It looks like all you'd really lose is three bonus feats, Quarry, and bonuses to tracking and stealth. The feats are really all that you'd miss having, since you said you're all about the archery. Meanwhile, you'd be trading that in for a much more impressive spell list, and all the magic arrows you could ask for.
And congrats on the new cardshop opening up! I say next time you're there, buy a round of sodas for your playgroup. It'll make a great first impression and help the shop's bottom line -- we do want this one to stay in business, right?
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Your character concept is a good one. In my current campaign there is a player with an arcane archer using fighter and sorcerer, and he loves it. He also does excellent damage.
First thing to note, though, is that PF does not grant the increasing enhancement bonus to arrows like the old 3.5 arcane archer did. In PF you get +1 and that's it.
Next remember that in PF the enhancement bonus on a bow do not stack with the enhancement bonus on an arrow. This goes for masterwork bonuses as well.
The improvement to the arcane archer in PF is that your spellcasting improves from the prestige class. That's much better than in 3.5, and there are plenty of low level spells that can enhance your effectiveness as an archer. Truestrike, Abundant Ammunition, Shield, Vanish, Expeditious Retreat, Gravity Bow and Unerring Weapon are just the first level spells I'd point at for an archer.
When picking your spells remember that enemy casters will want to use darkenss and mist to block your ranged attacks. They are low level and easily accessible spells, so expect them and have a way to counter them. Perhaps buy wands that can cast light spells, Gust of Wind or Dispel Magic to counter such effects.
As far as classes go, if you like the flavor of the ranger, go with it. Rangers have great skill ranks and other benefits to be had. I'd advise you to at least consider looking at fighter, though, since you won't get as many archery feats anywhere else. You can't go wrong with the fighter, but really you can't go wrong either way. Remember to factor in the Arcane Armor Training and perhaps Arcane Armor Mastery feats to your feat build. Also work towards the Point Blank Master and Snap Shot feats.
Regarding your stat increases, from what I've seen of the combats our arcane archer has been in, he's good at staying away from things. That being the case, you may want to just put your stats into Dex. Perhaps if you reach 20th level, you can throw the last one in Con. That is ultimately up to you, as how often you're in melee will determine if you need the hit points or the attack bonus more. Our group has two melee fighters, so Dex is far more important.
If you like dealing damage, the arcane archer will fun for you. The archer in our party was able to exceed 50 points of damage with a single attack roll at 5th level. He was straight fighter at that point, and had no extra buffs. Not too shabby. Still, from what I've heard, the Zen Archer can do even more damage per round. I happen to like the ranger flavor, but it's up to you to say what you want to play the most.
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Ranger 1/Wizard 5/Eldritch Knight 10/Arcane Archer 4 works well as an overall build if you want better spellcasting. You can stagger the AA levels in as pointed out earlier around 10-13 if you really want those abilities.
Otherwise, Ranger 6/Wizard 1/Arcane Archer 3/Eldritch Knight 10 works really well, too.
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As to the question of stacking abilities from a magic bow and your AA class features, I think you have it right. As long as the abilities do not overlap, they will stack. I've found that PF has remained true to 3.5 for the most part, but just remember to check each thing without assuming that you know what it does. The changes are mostly small and therefore hard to notice.
As far as feats go, as I said before, work towards the Point Blank Master from the Advanced Players Guide and the Snap Shot tree (including Improved Snap Shot and Greater Snap Shot eventually) from Ultimate Combat. The basics are Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Precise Shot, Weapon Focus; I always add Manyshot and Improved Precise Shot to that list, but others may not agree.
Items you'll want will be the same as in 3.5: a bow, Dex items, Bracers of Archery, and anything else you think is cool.
Note that the AA/EK build Sylvanite listed is a good one if you want improved spell abilities. If you're set on getting the burst and holy weapon features from the AA class, then run it out and consider Eldritch Knight as a finishing class for your last few levels.
Don't forget to utilize the many different types of arrows that paizo, and other 3p companies have put out.
Adamantine arrow- for sunder, and bypass hardness
Cold iron- as your base arrow, it's cheap
Silver blunt arrow- use the blanch to do this, by raw you can't make blunt arrows silvered, but weapon blanch allows it.
Adamantine & ghost salt Blanches- 10 arrows each.
Pheromone arrows- get scent
Normal blunt arrows
Smoke arrows
Whistling arrows
Broad- ask GM first, not an official paizo creation, it's a 3rd party design.
Dye arrows
Raining arrows- use as normal, our take out the holy water vial (saves you 25 go/ each, to put in regular water, to use for fires and the sort. Good roleplay here.
Bleeding arrows (their expensive, but sometimes worth it
I listed the really good ones that are non magical. There are a few great ones that are magical.
With all these types, an efficient quiver out two is necessary.
Gravity bow is the equivalent of Enlarge but for bows so no, it is not overpowered. Since your arrows cannot benefit from enlarge use gravity bow instead.
Abundant Ammunition example: when the spell is cast you have 10 arrows, when the spell is completed you have 10 arrows. I see no reason it cannot apply to an efficient quiver. However, it wont work well with a handy haversack since it takes a move action to pull any arrow out of a haversack (use it for long term replacements, not in combat).
- Gauss
P.S. For those games that have houseruled Enlarge to apply to ranged combat Gravity bow is still better since it comes without the -2dex, -1attack and -1AC (adds up to -2attack and AC for an archer).
My suggestion on Feat choices:
1) Point Blank Shot
2b) Precise Shot
3) Rapid Shot
5) Weapon Focus
6b)Point Blank Master (APG)
7) Manyshot
9)
10b)Improved Precise Shot
11)
13)
14b)
15)
17)
18b)
19)
Other feats to consider:
Deadly Aim (CR; power attack for your bow)
Clustered Shots (UC; helps to bypass DR)
Snap Shot (UC; allows you to threaten 5feet with your bow)
Improved Snap Shot (UC; increase threatened range to 10feet)
Improved Critical (CR)
All of the remaining feat prerequisites are met by 9th level except for improved snap shot which is met when you take snap shot. Organize to taste. Unfortunately none of these feats can be taken with your level 14 or 18 bonus feats.
I recommend Point Blank Master at level 6 since that will remove attacks of opportunity for shooting your bow. At that point a melee weapon is just a back-up weapon.
Hope this helps
- Gauss
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Since your asking for items, feats, what have you... Let me see what else I have for my archer that would work.
.....
Ok, if you get the snap shot feats, (only snap spot & imp. Snap shot, greater isn't worth it), I highly, HIGHLY recommend the feat Pin Down. Now when you threaten, if the enemy tries to 5ft step or withdraw, you get an AoO to prevent there movement, very nice!
All the arrow types I mentioned above, will really come in handy. Smoke arrows will help cover your escape, durable arrows won't break from firing (good idea to make these into adamantine, so you never run out when you want to bypass hardness (or sunde, but only for fighter since htey can sunder), dye arrows to mark a combat survivor(to find him and his horde later), pheromone (when you get scent, I'll explain how) to destroy enemies faster, so on.
As mentioned, deadly aim is one of the best archer feats out there, if you don't have it, you're not an archer worth your weight. Clustered shots is also an excellent feat as well. Now you don't have to rely on as much on specific arrow types to bypass DR, b/c the DR is only calculated once per full attack, hell yes! Improved critical makes your x3 hurt that much more often by 5% (10% is always better for you than 5%), I would get it, but wait a few levels, since it isn't that important, when compared to deadly aim or fluctuated shots, our sometimes even snap shot.
If you plan on crafting your own arrows,which most archers might since they can't always get to a city/village/town to get new ones. It is also easier for you to to spend some skill points into crafting, vs. the fighter who is limited on skill points and thus has to be pickier with their skills, it might be a good idea getting at least one rank in craft (alchemy), besides your normal craft (bows/Fletcher/etc.) Reason is, those special arrows I mentioned, most of them need a craft (alchemy) to make them.
There was a discussion/question thread about this exact thing, craft (alchemy) arrows. not only on how many you can make, but how fast, an dwhat types are needs for which craft. Thread can be found here: http://paizo.com/forums/dmtz5hiu?Craft-Alchemy-arrows#1
Now, onto the good stuff :). First, one of the biggest problems to an archer, besides wind wall, is not being able to see the enemy. Not so much by cover, which your imp. Precise shot will deal with (all but full cover), is fogs/mists/so on. One obscuring must, and your somewhat screwed, since even with the seeking weapon enchantment, you still need to hit the correct square. The solution? The ever popular in my archers book, but not well known, Goz Mask. It's from the inner sea guide, and it allows you to see through smoke, fog, mists, and the sort AS IF IT WASN'T THERE! Now, you can see the enemy and shot at them, no problem. Also, it treats you're projectiles as if one size category larger for purposes of wind effects. I'm not 100% sure on the ruling on that, but regardless the main ability is what you want.
As for scent, ever heard of the hat if disguise? Course you have....but have you meet his older, wiser, better looking brother? No? Well let me introduce to you hat of disguise, greater. Now, when you use the hat it's not under the use of three disguise spell, it's now an Alter Self spell. Why is this good? Because alter self let's you turn into a small our medium sized humanoid creature. When you do, if they have certain abilities, which are listed in the alter self spiel, you get those same abilities. So, if you turn into an orc, hello darkvision. What makes this awesome is threw different types of humanoids there are. after spending some time searching the different types of humanoids, and their ability combinations, I found the best one for each size (small and medium).
For medium: sasquatch
For small: charau-ka
Both of these creatures are identical in their abilities in which you would gain from the alter self spell. They both have 30 ft movement (small besides are normally 20', so this is good), both give low-light vision, darkvision, and scent. You really wasn't three scent ability. when you do your attack, either spend the first round marking a few targets, each with a pheromone arrow, or mark one and finish killing him with your bonuses from the combo of scent and the pheromone arrows. The pheromone arrows will provide +2 to your atk/dmg rolls. Which is a very nice bump in damageg, and effectiveness for hitting your enemies.
Also, to answer your question about abundant ammunition.... You well be using up those initial arrows of yours. The spell REPLACES arrows that were pulled from it the turn before, which means:
Round 1: 4 attacks= 1 pheromone, 2 normal, 1 smoke arrow
Round 2: the spell will now give you 1 pheromone, 2 normal, and 1 smoke. You don't have to use them, but if you don't, they are gone after your round from using different arrows. If on round 3 you want to use 1 durable, 3 silver arrows...on turn 4 the spell will give you the 1 durable and 3 silvered. So, yes those arrows that were physically yours, and not created by the spell, will be used. That's why I mentioned the possibility of you doing the Okefenokee stores all on the first round, so that every turn after that, your not wasting an attack to mark a new target, but instead can user the arrow you need, since combat will typically last longer than a single round.
Hmmm, that send to be most of it. If I notice anything else, I'll let you know. Hope this helps, and if any of this helps you out let me know, would love to hear about it.
Abundant Ammunition:
If I read it right the following occurs:
Round 0: cast
Round 1: you shoot 3 times and subtract 3 arrows from your quiver.
Round 2: The 3 arrows you shot last round vanish, 3 arrows are replaced, and you shoot 3 arrows. IOW: add 3 and then subtract 3 arrows from your quiver.
Round 3+: repeat
Round after you stop shooting: 3 arrows once again vanish and 3 arrows are replaced. IOW: add 3 to the quiver. Since these arrows do not have a duration (the effect is 'vanishing and replacing') the replacement arrows do not go away when the spell does.
IF you are in combat when the spell duration expires the following happens: 3 arrows you shot last round do NOT vanish, 3 arrows are NOT replaced, you lose the last round's arrows normally.
It is the last round which is the largest question. Does the previous round's ammo vanish AFTER the spell ends or is it treated like most fired ammo. I would say that the vanishing-replacing cycle is part of the spell and neither occurs after the spell expires.
- Gauss
Abundant ammunition says:
When cast on a container such as a quiver or a pouch that contains nonmagical ammunition or shuriken (including masterwork ammunition or shuriken), at the start of each round this spell replaces any ammunition taken from the container the round before. The ammunition taken from the container the round before vanishes.
The first time you shoot arrows, it will be you're real arrows, not from the spell. After that round, duplicates of those will be created. The round after that, those round 2 arrows which were created from the spell will vanish, and will be replaced with duplicates of the ones you used the round before, which were the spell duplicates. If you choose to use different arrows on round 4, those arrows you use will be your actual real arrows, just as if it were round one. After that round the next round will create duplicates of these new arrows. That is how it is.
Based off what you had said Gauss, you would never use your actual arrows, because using your example, your round 2 arrows would disappear, which is not the case since those were your real arrows, thus they don't vanish.
So,
Round 0: cast spell
Round 1: use 3 real arrows
Round 2: duplicate arrows of the round arrows are first created, your round arrows are either destroyed our list, like normal
Round 3: duplicates of your round 2 arrows are made, the round 2 arrows vanish
Round 4: repeat of rounds 2-3
... If you start switching arrows.. Everything is the same, except
Round 4: you decide to use new arrows...you use your real arrows (not from the spell), your round 3 arrows still disappear.
Round 5: your round 4 still exist, since they were you're real arrows, spell creates duplicates of your round 4 arrows.
Round 6: you get duplicates of your round 5 arrows, your round 5 arrows disappear since these were duplicates created by the spell.
That is how the spell functions. If the spell wears off, or is dispelled, your arrows that were shot from the round before, if they were duplicates, they vanish automatically, and the spell doesn't create new ones for you. If they weren't duplicates, but were the real arrows, then those still exist and the spell ends.
The best thing to do with this spell is to make it a permanent continuous effect on your efficient quiver, or whichever quiver you use. So you not only don't have to worry about wasting time casting, but you also don't have to worry about the spell duration ending.
That is how the spell functions. If the spell wears off, or is dispelled, your arrows that were shot from the round before, if they were duplicates, they vanish...
Yes, you do use 3 arrows in the first round. However, the final round if NOT in combat would still replace arrows previously used.
To simplify matters:
Round 1: use 3 arrows
Round 2: (not shooting) 3 arrows are replaced
Round 3: spell ends, round 2's arrows do not suddenly vanish due to the spell ending.
Thus, I start with 3 arrows, I end with 3 arrows as long as I do not fire on the round before the spell ends.
Key phrases: "replaces ammunition taken from the container the round before" and "ammunition taken from the container the round before vanishes". If the ammunition is not taken from the container, it does not vanish.
- Gauss
Hmm, I see what you're saying. In that instance it might be a toss up, since the spell doesn't say those arrows vanish, if not used, if duration ends.
If you choose not to use the arrows on a turn, the ones created, them I would age, they would stay in your quiver UNTIL either used our the spell duration ends, whichever comes first. So yes, those arrows stay with you, at least that's how I read it. If the spell ends, them they are gone, since they are creations only for the spell itself.
Either way, the spell is amazing for archers, especially for all the specialty non-magical ones, of which ether are a bunch. Still, I would like paizo to make more, perhaps something similar to the injector arrows found from super genius: archer archetypes book. Healing at range, mmmmmm, I can taste it now. :)
Well, if you have a high dex already, then you probably wont need ranger.
W2/F5/AA4/EK9
You have a BAB of 19, CL of 13 (Lv7 spells :D), 8 bonus combat feats, and Enhance Arrows Elemental/Magic
Alternatively you can do
W2/F5/AA8/EK5
BAB is still 19, CL is 12 (lv6 spells), 7 bonus combat feats, and up to hail of arrows.
If you want 10 levels of AA, then
W2/F5/AA10/EK3
BAB 19, CL 11 (D:), 6 bonus feats, but you get arrow of death, which isn't impressive since you need cha to make it deadly. If you care about arrow of death, then maybe go sorcerer...I think the first 3 ideas are more solid tho
I agree the spell is awesome and would love to see a magic item using it. Unfortunately, regarding permanency I don't see a statement making the spell eligible.
My fighter archer (not archer archetype) build is going to have a problem keeping arrows in stock. But, with a bag of holding he can buy thousands of arrows.
By level 6 he is firing off 4arrows a round (not including haste).
- Gauss
Well, if you have a high dex already, then you probably wont need ranger.
W2/F5/AA4/EK9
You have a BAB of 19, CL of 13 (Lv7 spells :D), 8 bonus combat feats, and Enhance Arrows Elemental/Magic
Alternatively you can do
W2/F5/AA8/EK5BAB is still 19, CL is 12 (lv6 spells), 7 bonus combat feats, and up to hail of arrows.
If you want 10 levels of AA, then
W2/F5/AA10/EK3
BAB 19, CL 11 (D:), 6 bonus feats, but you get arrow of death, which isn't impressive since you need cha to make it deadly. If you care about arrow of death, then maybe go sorcerer...I think the first 3 ideas are more solid tho
Where is the W2/F5/AA4/EK9 getting 8 bonus combat feats?
I am counting 3 from Fighter and 3 from Eldritch Knight.W2/F5/AA8/EK5 doesnt have 7 bonus combat feats, it has 3Fighter and 2EK.
W2/F5/AA10/EK3 have only 4 bonus combat feats not 6. (3 from F5 and 1from EK).
Neither Wizard nor Arcane Archer grant bonus combat feats.
- Gauss
I agree the spell is awesome and would love to see a magic item using it. Unfortunately, regarding permanency I don't see a statement making the spell eligible.
My fighter archer (not archer archetype) build is going to have a problem keeping arrows in stock. But, with a bag of holding he can buy thousands of arrows.
By level 6 he is firing off 4arrows a round (not including haste).
- Gauss
not using permanency, just magic item creation to add the spell into either an efficient quiver or a regular quiver.. Should be minimum like 8k gp or something... No clue for creation.
A for the fighter, any reason why you don't like the archer archetype? I understand one if the biggest losses is the AC bonus from armor training, but as an archer, your AC is supported by three fact your typically near the rear shooting long distance. That alone helps mitigate the amount of hits you would take, vs being a melee guy. I personally like three archer archetype bc now I can sunder, trip, disarm, bull rush w/in 30', I can shoot up to 135'.. or 2 x 110'= 220 + 25= 245' with distance ability and hawkeye. Also, even though it is very situational, snatch stored ability for free with the added bonus of me bring able to fire it back. Nobody else can do that.
If I'm going to devote my character to the bow, I personally make it so that the bow is the only thing I care about and the only thing I would ever need.
AC is the main reason. As for being in back not this archer. Whether for good or ill he is going to be the PC tank (4person group, fighter-archer, cleric, wizard, druid-summoner). Unfortunately, he wont really hit his stride until level 4 when he can take point blank master.
As for the ability to sunder, trip, etc. the -4 makes a difficult option even more difficult. While yes, the weapon training partially mitigates it the fact is after mid levels monster CMDs begin to outpace a fighter's CMB. For me, the odd enemy wizard just isnt worth taking those abilities and losing the AC.
Example: from my reading the average CR7 CMD seems to be about 28. Level 7 I would have: 7(BAB)+4(str)+1(Training) = +12. I would need to roll a 16 to beat the 28CMD. Factor in the -4 and that becomes a 20.
Thats just not worth it to me. Note: there are other potential bonuses out there but at level 7 they are relatively rare. As the levels get higher the enemy CMDs just get insane. I don't believe Im the first to notice this trend.
The best ability of the Archer archtype is the volley attack. But my archer will never see level 17 as we retire our characters by about level 15 at the latest.
- Gauss
Cmb also included weapon focus, and your weapon enhancements. Anything that would add to your attack roll, adds to cmb. Still I see your point. But after crunching some numbers, at high levels I can get my cmb up to the mid 40's. Even if the enemy had a 60 cmd, that means I would need about a 15 on the roll. Ifthe target is that hard to get of the cmb on, and I do it, all the better. For me it wouldn't be a main option, but even still, it's a nice battlefield control option. Personally, I can't wait for my group to hit level 17 so I can volley. it will be a child day in hell for my enemies when they try to corner me and get close.
True, I had failed to add Weapon focus and enhancements. But at level 7 that adds about +3 (so now I dont need a 20, I need a 17).
The main thing is that your archer isnt meant to be a tank while mine is so that changes the need. IF I had another tank to hide behind I would happily reconsider but even then I might go for Weapon Master instead. - Gauss
My archer isn't meant for front line chaos all the time, he has good con, and at late levels will take Toughness. I've seem weapon matter. I don't think it's that amazing for the archer. He sacrifices a lot all for the added bonus of a few rerolls, one more reason training bonus, bonuses vs longbow only, and the ability to a few times pet day to increase his crit multiplier. Personally not a fan.
Getting off track...
As for the OP, utilize the rangers ability to not need prerequisites for feats. ...now that I think about it, could the ranger effectively get combat patrol without being the other feats? If so, could be useful for mobility, AoO chances, and battlefields control.
As for the abundant ammunition, I just had a thought. If you get the item with continuous abundant ammunition on it, thn I believe those duplicate arrows would forever stay with you until you use them, or any arrow for that matter, since the spell will replace what was taken out.
I remember the everfull quiver. A shame I haven't seen its like since 3.0 came out. - Gauss
yeah that was my bad, i thought 5 feats from fighter instead of 3. Sorry
Depends on your DM. Some DMs will create the cohort (possibly with your input on what you are looking for in a cohort) and then hand it to you to play for combat purposes. Others will completely control the cohort. Neither is wrong.
How you equip the cohort is also an issue. Three main methods are: your group gives him a partial share. Your group gives him a full share. Or you are the one that has to equip him with anything out of your own share.
Personally, as a function of your abilities I agree with the latter.
- Gauss
P.S. Many people consider this feat to be one of the most broken feats in the game and as such you should confirm it with your DM before you try to take it.
I would say do not go for Arcane Armor training. It is a swift action, and you will be needing that for other things. Mage Armor is +4, not fantastic, but it last and you save wealth for other items.
A mount is your friend as an archer, since you can keep your full round attack while moving mounted. Reduce person allows you to get +2 to hit, and use a medium mount, allowing for indor use...
If you end up being high lvl caster, spell perfection is really nice for the end game.
Instead if reduce person, just use the hat of disguise greater trick I mentioned earlier. Now your an ape man on a horse. Planet of the apes anyone?
Also, I wouldn't be keen on the cohort, considering archers are very feat intensive, and even as a ranger your limited to you're feats.
Imp. Precise shot, snap shot, imp. Snap shot, rapid shot, many shot, point blank master, combat reflexes, pin down, clustered shots, deadly aim...that's 10 feats right there that most archers want/need.
As a ranger you get the normal 10 feats over 20 levels, plus 1 for human, and the combat style feats which is 5 more. Your combat style feats will cover imp. Precise shot, rapid shot, and many shot. The last two openings from those 5 can be used to get far shot, point blank shot, or pin point targeting. Let's say you get far shot and pinpoint targetting. Now, out of the 11 other slots open for feats, you full those with the feats mentioned, and you have 7 used. Meaning you have 4 left over. You could take the cohort, and have 3 left over to fill.
If you don't, those last 4 could be quickdraw, imp. Crit, master alchemist (the ideas I mentioned in an earlier post), and big game hunter (or toughness). You'll have space for the leadership feat, if you take out one if these 4, but even if you do, that is 3 separate characters you have to keep track of. Hope you can keep up with it all.
Very true, leadership can make our break a game depending on the gm and what they allure, and who makes it, so on.
Besides this, try to make sure under you have every facet of you're character covered. For archers we have a little more work to do than any other combat class. Casters need to keep track if spells, but even then most of the time they know exactly what it does, the dc, if it provides a roll, so on. Archers are combat oriented first and foremost, so because of that, combat is where your going to need to keep track of most things, our know what to do in specific situations.
Must people have just their normal double sided character sheet they they use for everything. I have a 3 tuned binder with protective sheet sleeves, and I use up to 10-20 sheets (20-40 pieces of paper back to back) for my characters. I write down Egbert single feat in full, all my attack options (archers have the most options for attacking from what I see than any other class that's not a caster). I keep track of my arrow quantity, the different tires and what they do, any special abilities or features they can happen between the interaction if feats/items/and weapons, all my magic and non magic items are fully listed. Besides doing this do I have everything I would need in front of me, so I hardly ever need a book to look something up, it also helps speed along combat and other situations, as well as show the gm that i'm fully prepared and that I have everything I would need. I'm not saying you should do this, but as an archer first thing you might want to expand upon post your normal character sheet, is possibly your arrow log. some gm's are picky and will want to make sure you keep track our don't have an arrow arrow you never purchased, do on. Others don't care as long as Egbert once in a while they know amour you purchasing a large quantity of arrows our components.
That reminds me... Material components for arrows are typically steel arrow heads, feathers, and wooden shafts. My group just fought a metal construct this well. It is 3000lbs of iron. I could use it, but if be limited in the types of arrows I can make, either way if it were steel if take it. Anyway, a party member filled it's body into a portable hole, so that another player could turn the mass of stroll onto arrow heads. Wood from a first it's free, and any Jeane I catch, our enemies with feathers we fight I collect there their parts as needed. It's free components, which means when you craft your arrows you'll have what you need, and all you need to do it's figure out your progress
I think ya'll are missing the best archer in the game: Zen Archer. He can tank with an awesome AC, and ranged attacks don't provoke at level 3. He's less stat intensive (little DEX, little CON, a lot of WIS). With class abilities he gets more feats than a fighter until around 10th level. Improved Precise Shot at 6th level, Improved Critical at 10th. He gets a Ki pool to make your arrows do your Unarmed Damage (Monk's Robe anyone?)
The downside is they have no magic, so your gravity bow and abundant ammo has to come from somewhere else.
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It all depends on what you want to play. You can build a really effective Pure Ranger, Ranger/AA, Pure Fighter, Fighter/ AA, Zen Archer, or whatever.
Really focus on who you want your character to be, what you want him/her to do, how he/she behaves and then pick whichever class combo fits that best.
You'll have more fun if you do.
Plus, if you're into MIN/MAXing, it's a great challenge, and great fun, to do so within the confines of a clearly defined character concept.
If you don't care and just wanna wail, I'm also a fan of the Zen Archer. . . just make sure to play a Dwarf with Steel Soul and Deep Sight--Nasty, Son!
I think ya'll are missing the best archer in the game: Zen Archer. He can tank with an awesome AC, and ranged attacks don't provoke at level 3. He's less stat intensive (little DEX, little CON, a lot of WIS). With class abilities he gets more feats than a fighter until around 10th level. Improved Precise Shot at 6th level, Improved Critical at 10th. He gets a Ki pool to make your arrows do your Unarmed Damage (Monk's Robe anyone?)
The downside is they have no magic, so your gravity bow and abundant ammo has to come from somewhere else.
Zen archer is quite good. I was seriously considering it for my next PC. But the sustained damage is nowhere as good as the fighter. The fighter doesn't provoke at level 4 (rather than 3).
Gravity Bow can only come from a wand (no potion) and is personal so you cannot have it cast upon you. This requires you to have UMD.
Fighter does more consistent (read: when zen archer is not using consumable powers) damage at level 5 and beyond eventually doing about 50% more consistent damage at level 15. Note: prior to level 5 they are the same on consistent damage.
When using Ki Attack+Gravity Bow (for both)+Perfect strike Zen Archer's damage balances out (1-3pts difference) from levels 1-3, 6-7, and 10. Goes to superior (about 10points) for levels 4-5 and 8. And drops to inferior (5 or more pts) for level 9 and 11-20.
When using Ki Arrow+Gravity Bow+Perfect strike: Even at levels 1-3,5, 8, 10, and 15-16. Superior at level 4. Inferior at levels 6-7, 9, 11-14, and 17-20.
Setup: standard 25% WBL equipment buy. All equipment listed below is at that 25% restriction: Wisdom is adding to monk's damage via guided weapon. Fighter has gloves of dueling. Both have bracers of archery. Monk has monks robes.
Ultimately, I find the fighter has less AC but more damage than the monk. The fact the monk does not have Manyshot is a key part of this. However, the monk has fun abilities too. Thus it is a tossup.
- Gauss
P.S. a more detailed breakdown is available upon request. I have an excel chart I built to do this breakdown.
Edit: forgot to list monk's robes.
.... Don't get pin point targeting until you get imp. precise shot. You need imp. Precise shot to bypass soft cover, and all other types of cover except full, which only happens when you can't make a line of effect between you and enemy.
Also, deadly aim is more important than snapshot... Take they before the snapshot tree, then clustered shots, then snapshot.
......I just wrote a HUGE post for you just now, but my computer deleted it. ARGHHHH!!!!!
long story short, unfortunately...
lv 1 - (feat 1)point blank shot already taken by my character
lv 2 - RCSFA - Rapid shot
Lv 3 - (feat 2) weapon focus
lv 4 - STAT 1 --> Con
lv 5 - (feat 3) deadly aim
lv 6 - RCSFA - improved precise shot
lv 7 - (feat 4) precise shot
lv 8 - STAT 2----> dex
lv 9 - (feat 5) clustered shot
lv 10 - RCSFA many shot
lv 11 - (feat 6) combat reflexes
lv 12 - STAT 3----> dex
lv 13 - (feat 7) snap shot
lv 14 - RCSFA point blank master
lv 15 - (feat 8) imp. snap shot
lv 16 - STAT 4----> dex
lv 17 - (feat 9) pindown
lv 18 -RCSFA far shot (I recommend this over pin point targeting b/c you give up a full round action for one atk, even at max dmg, its like 40+pts of dmg... not really that great; still if you want it, get it)
lv 19 - (feat 10) quickdraw or toughness(quickdraw might be better, unless you know/play your character to use snap shot a lot, then get toughness, b/c you'll be needing it due to taking more attacks)
lv 20 - STAT 5------> dex
If you don't want clustered shots, move up combat reflexes and the other normal feats. Other than that, watch out at level 13, when you get snap shot BEFORE point blank master. At that point, just 5' step back, ad fire your bow. At 14th level, stay where you are if you want to fire, due to having point blank master now. If you decide to not get clustered shots, make sure to have different types of arrows for the different DR's. adamantine (blanch is better for DR bypass, its cheaper), silvered (put on blunt arrows, use blanch), cold iron (your main type to use, they're cheap).
Also remember that your magic bow will bypass DR when it is upgraded. Cold iron / silver +3
Adamantine* +4
Alignment-based +5
(The bonus on the right is the enhancement bonus you put on your weapon. So a +4 mighty (16) composite longbow, will not only give you +3 STR damage added with an additional +4 dmg per shot, but it will also bypass cold iron, silver, and adamantine DR.
................
At level 4, your first stat bump, put into Con, instead of wisdom. Rangers only have 4th lvl spells. The extra Con or HP will help you out in both the short and long run, when you have to take hits... especially from using snapshot and either protecting the casters in the back, or getting up to the enemy casters. Either way, more HP helps. So a +3 mod for you at level 3, is a bit much or spell-casting considering you cant even cast spells yet. Just get a +6 item for wisdom, an a +5 book, to max out your wis. As or the other 4 stat bumps, they all go to dex. Get a +6 item, and +4 books for Dex, Str, and Con. They will be maxed out for you, and all even numbered, so you don't have to spend more than you need (+4 book vs. a +5 book, huge value difference).
Hope this helps, and let us know again later on with an update, on how your character is doing, or if you have any more ?'s
Snap Shot is the feat that allows AOOs with a bow. You threaten 5'.
Regarding point blank master. If you are not going to get up into combat (we havent heard what the party composition is) then I would suggest that you do not take it. However, if you there is no one to keep the enemies off of you I strongly reccomend you take it. - Gauss
Correct, combat reflexes is for snapshot, not pin down.
As for pin down, remove it from the setup I gave, and put in quickdraw instead, then your last feat that was supposed to be quickdraw, will be toughness. Problem solved.
Until we Know your play style, (if your going to typically stay back and fight and not protect caster or go front line ends attack their caster- snap shot line is useless really. If you do protect your casters or your attacking their casters, snap shot is needed.
..... I've already mentioned every single item you would need or combo. Read all the posts.
Tl;dr: elves of golarion for the specialty arrows, (mentioned in great detail on here), hat of disguise greater- sasquatch or charu-ka, goz mask (inner sea guide)- sts through smoke fog mist, and arrows are one size larger for wind effects.