Ok here is the deal, in my group we allow general creativity and we enjoy seeing how strong the other players can get. So the other day i decided to take this to the limit so for the past week i have been scouring databases for ways to boost stats effectively to their highest. My first goal is to get the highest possible ability score which i have calculated to be 61 in non Strength, Constitution, and Dexterity and a max of 71 for those three via the use of barbarian controlled rage and alchemist mutagens(barbarian 19/alchemist 1).
I calculates as 18 base+2 racial+5 level increases +5 inherent+29 enhancement(that is using custom magic item creation rules and only spending the money of one standard level 20 PC and having a caster somehow make this using craft wondrous item which costs 841,000gp)
This is some thing i am just attempting to discover for the purpose of a campaign my DM is planning in the future in which he promised standard wealth. I realize that this burns so much of a PC's wealth that it is highly... impractical though it is fairly awesome.
I ask for thoughts on this if it is somehow rendered impossible by a hidden rule though i have yet to find it. Also please include any suggestions on how to increase this maximum.
Thank you kindly if you read
Creating magic items which are not already listed in the rulebooks is considered a house-rule, and one that I would be hard pressed to find a GM who would be willing to use as far as exceeding +6 enhancement bonus to ability scores. So, using only rules in the book, and no house-rules, the maximum would be 36. If you use the dragon-disciple prestige class, you get a 40 permanent strength, plus 38 permanent con and int.
Now, if you were including temporary effects, you could get a fairly high size bonus from high-level polymorph spells. An alchemist could get up to an additional +8 alchemical bonus to Str, Dex or Con as a temporary bonus. An alchemist could also make a size bonus permanent by using his eternal potion ability on Enlarge Person. At 20th level, the alchemist can have a permanent +2 bonus added to his Int.
if you can use 3.5 prestige class, hulking hurler I believe from miniature handbook, you can boost your strength very considerably.
But I believe if you go 3.5 you could just aswell do a Pun-Pun (infinite cheese in infinite dimensions ... squared).
Other than that, strength seems to be a good idea, but isn't it better to take a few more lvls alchemist for better mutagens?
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Since I've done this song and dance before: Under your own power, 59 strength.
Sorc (Draconic Bloodline) 11/DD 7/Alch 1/Barb 1. Must take eldritch heritage feats for either abyssal or orc bloodlines for the strength power.
Rage +4, Mutagen +4, Form of the Dragon III +10, DD +4, starting 20 (18 +2 racial), level +5, inherent +6 (pull in abyssal's 9th level power via eldritch heritage feats), enhancement +6
Total 59 = 20 (18 + 2 from racial) + 4 (Rage) + 4 (Mutagen) + 10 (FotD III), +4 (DD), +5 (Levels), +6 (Inherent/Abyssal Bloodline), +6 (Enhancement)
Total with anti-magic field suppressing you: 39 (Base, level, rage, DD, inherent)
In short: A sorcerer with 8th level spells that can juggle grizzly bears. While in an anti-magic field. And exhausted.
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As far as I understand it, the current rules allow only a +6 enhancement bonus maximum. The old epic rules allowed for higher bonuses, but they cost much more (x10 I believe it was, when exceeding the +6 max) and are not in use in PF. If Paizo has allowed this limit to be breached, I have not seen it. Then again, I haven't seen nearly all of Paizo's products, either.
On the upside, you can add a +2 size bonus to Str for the Enlarge Person spell, a +8 size bonus to Str and +6 size bonus to Con for Giant Form 2 (if you can find a way to cast it on yourself as a Barbarian/Alchemist), up to a +8 size bonus to Str, +6 size bonus to Dex or a +8 size bonus to Con for Elemental Body 4 (depending on the form and again, if you can cast it on yourself), and a +10 size bonus to Str and +8 size bonus to Con for Form of the Dragon 3 (as before).
Using the standard PF rules, I think you can get a score very high, though. If the character was a wizard who became a lich, for example, and lived to ripe old undying age. He (it) could purchase a Grand Cognatogen made with the Infusion discovery from his old adventuring buddy. Let's assume an 18 Int, for the sake of picking one score. Then add +2 racial, +5 level advancement, +5 inherent, +6 enhancement, +8 alchemical, +3 age and +2 for the lich transformation for a 49 Int.
Of course, that barbarian could do the same, purchasing a Grand Mutagen altered by a friendly alchemist with Infusion. He could have an 18 Str, +2 racial, +5 level advancement, +5 inherent, +6 enhancement, +8 alchemical, +2 size (assume an Enlarge Person potion), and +8 morale (mighty rage) for a 54 Str. That's a +22 ability modifier. Not a dude I'd mess with. Maybe others can come up with bonuses I missed.
thank you for the clarification of that being a technical house rule it must have escaped my mind after my DM allowing a little more flexibility in bonuses of magic items using the "Estimating Magic Item Gold Piece Values" table for so long so i thank you kindly in the assistance in my search for a higher ability score. So now i will attempt to show the party fighter how its done and possibly see how effective some of these things could be if none of you mind too terribly.
Once again thank you all with these numbers (which i will be sure to tell my group of the most wonderful sources) i will be able to show them thata little multi-classing can cause for some great things (and i agree, looking back a sorcerer11/dragon disciple 7/ barbarian1 alchemist 1 is just cool than any unconventional combination i have thought of) so once again thank you all kindly.
nice one stabbity, I believe the best ability scores of the 3.5 gods were around 60.
Since I've done this song and dance before: Under your own power, 59 strength.
Sorc (Draconic Bloodline) 11/DD 7/Alch 1/Barb 1. Must take eldritch heritage feats for either abyssal or orc bloodlines for the strength power.
Rage +4, Mutagen +4, Form of the Dragon III +10, DD +4, starting 20 (18 +2 racial), level +5, inherent +6 (pull in abyssal's 9th level power via eldritch heritage feats), enhancement +6
Total 59 = 20 (18 + 2 from racial) + 4 (Rage) + 4 (Mutagen) + 10 (FotD III), +4 (DD), +5 (Levels), +6 (Inherent/Abyssal Bloodline), +6 (Enhancement)
Total with anti-magic field suppressing you: 39 (Base, level, rage, DD, inherent)
In short: A sorcerer with 8th level spells that can juggle grizzly bears. While in an anti-magic field. And exhausted.
Question and an addition. Isn't the cap +5 for inherent bonuses?
If you bind a succubus you can get a +2 profane bonus to a stat. Of course she can revoke it at any time, but if you're abyssal bloodline she may see you as friendly and that her Profane Gift is being put to good use :)
Die and be reincarnated as a bugbear to make your racial strength modifier a +4.
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Some interesting ideas from others, but I was trying to follow a couple rules with mine:
1) Completely under the character's own power.
2) Core races only.
3) Follow RAW as closely as possible.
4) No hinky stuff to try and dodge the above rules (even via conning the DM)
If you wanted to break these rules you can get into some pretty strange stuff that would likely get you a look of disapproval from your DM, followed by a good ol' "rocks falling".
For example: After hitting level 20, work with your friendly local druid to get reincarnated. If you hit 00 and you can con your DM into it, you could come back as a storm giant for a +28 racial strength mod. This reduces the helpfulness of form of the dragon III (read the polymorph rules about sizes) to +2. Then do the alchemist trick with a 20th level alchemist friend who has the best mutagen. The character doesn't qualify for Amplified Rage due to race. However, they *can* get a succubus to grant them a +2 profane bonus to strength.
18 base +28 (racial, storm giant) + 2 (size, FotD III) +8 (alchemical, mutagen) + 6 (enhancement, belt) + 4 (untyped, dragon disciple) + 5 (untyped, levels) + 4 (morale, rage) + 6 (inherent, abyssal bloodline) + 2 (profane, succubus's profane gift)
Grand total? 83
Special Note: If you consider having the "Orc" subtype enough to qualify for "Orc or Half-orc" feats, then have the sorc cross-bloodline draconic and orc to gain that subtype and take amplified rage. This adds an extra +4 to the rage bonus. Grand total of 87.
Non-raged anti-magic-field total: 61
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Int. 18 base + 2 race + 6 enhancement + 5 level + 5 wish + 3 age + 2 dragon disciple = 41
The base max for any mental state is 39 with the venerable age boost. Intelligence is boosted higher by the dragon disciple bonus. There may be similar boosts available for wisdom and charisma, but I am not aware of any.
I find that a lot of people overlook the age bonus to the mental stats, because the rule does not get used very often. I like to play older characters especially at higher levels and with the new age resist spells from Ultimate Magic the negative to physical ability scores is not as crippling.
Stabbitty that is wonderful, if a DM would allow that without the rocks falling you mentioned is slim based on my passed experiences, though if it could happen then it could most certainly be fun. Thank you kindly.
Nipin, thank you kindly for reminding me of age bonuses this could help with a possible wizard or even my current one.
Actually, I think you could bork the rules by using the voodoo witch power to steal the body of a storm giant and go adjusting things from there.
I know in 3.5 they easily got Str over 100, but they had the Hulking Hurler, the spell Giant-Size, and unlimited Polymorph Spells to play with.
==Aelryinth
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Zakur, you're right! I misread the Infusion discovery as applying to mutagens/cognatogens when it applies only to extracts. Sorry for the confusion all, I've never actually played an alchemist. I'll have to go back to the assumption in the OP that the character in question would take one level in alchemist to gain access to a +4 mutagen.
As a note on using outside material, if you use the psionics rules there are several ways to increase your Str. There is the telepathic power True Mind Switch, which can allow that giants body referred to in the post earlier as long as your manifester level is equal to the target's hit dice. Also if you have the 1st level Expansion power on the psychic warrior list and are able to manifest it at 7th level, you can gain a +6 size bonus to Str. Although similar bonuses normally don't stack, if you had an effect that increased your size in place when you manifested Expansion to make you grow further, it seems resonable that the bonuses (and penalties) would stack.
And I'll add in once more the bonus from the transformation into a lich that adds +2 to Int, Wis and Cha. If we apply that to the Sor/DD in Nipin's example we end up with an Int of 43. Or Cha 43 more likely, which would be particularly scary since that half-dracolich character could then get his Cha bonus to hit points in place of the lost Con score, adding +16 hp/level!
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I'll take a shot at it.
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Half Elf Synthesist / barbarian / alchemist 18/1/1
16 starting
+7 eidolon level
+3 eidolon discretionary
+8 evolution
16 size (huge)
+2 enlarge (gargantuan)
+6 enhancement
+4 mutagen
+4 rage
+4 amplified rage
____
70
I can also UMD a Divine Juggernaught scroll for increasing Strength as I kill.
* The above build uses 26 of the 27 evolution points that a half-elf summoner receives using his racial bonus.
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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Ok here is the deal, in my group we allow general creativity and we enjoy seeing how strong the other players can get. So the other day i decided to take this to the limit so for the past week i have been scouring databases for ways to boost stats effectively to their highest. My first goal is to get the highest possible ability score which i have calculated to be 61 in non Strength, Constitution, and Dexterity and a max of 71 for those three via the use of barbarian controlled rage and alchemist mutagens(barbarian 19/alchemist 1).
I calculates as 18 base+2 racial+5 level increases +5 inherent+29 enhancement(that is using custom magic item creation rules and only spending the money of one standard level 20 PC and having a caster somehow make this using craft wondrous item which costs 841,000gp)
This is some thing i am just attempting to discover for the purpose of a campaign my DM is planning in the future in which he promised standard wealth. I realize that this burns so much of a PC's wealth that it is highly... impractical though it is fairly awesome.
I ask for thoughts on this if it is somehow rendered impossible by a hidden rule though i have yet to find it. Also please include any suggestions on how to increase this maximum.
Thank you kindly if you read
Check out this column I wrote a month or so ago: http://www.the-ush.com/index.php?topic=3744.0
I was looking to max the Strength score strictly by rules as written. I got a max of 43 as a constant strength score, and then using buffs and spells, got it up to 79 for a single attack at a time by using Moment of Greatness. :)|
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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The build I posted has a 50 strength naked and unbuffed, 56 with a belt of giant strength.
I got a max of 43 as a constant strength score, and then using buffs and spells, got it up to 79 for a single attack at a time by using Moment of Greatness. :)
Not familiar with amplified rage... how does that work?
EDIT: NM, got it. You could also have a moment of greatness spell cast on you to double that morale bonus again to a +16 for one attack at a time.
You can also get another +6 from inherent bonus by taking the Eldritch Heritage feat progression and choosing Abyssal bloodline.
Once again thanks I am really looking forward to seeing some of these things in action, and I've been thinking about trying to figure out a synthesist build for about an hour but now with this it has opened a few ideas that may just end up being cool if even just partially used. So once again thank you kindly.
Int. 18 base + 2 race + 6 enhancement + 5 level + 5 wish + 3 age + 2 dragon disciple = 41
The base max for any mental state is 39 with the venerable age boost. Intelligence is boosted higher by the dragon disciple bonus. There may be similar boosts available for wisdom and charisma, but I am not aware of any.
Actually, a 20th level Alchemist can beat this.
18 base + 2 race + 6 enhancement + 5 level + 5 inherent + 3 age + 8 Alchemy (Greater Cognatogen) + 2 Grand discovery = 49
Not to mention that the Alchemist gets an extract that negates penalties for aging. And if you go Mind Chemist, you get double your intelligence bonus on knowledge checks after level 2. With the Breadth of Experience feat, you can make any knowledge check untrained with a +40 bonus, leaving 19-20 other skills you can max out.
Charisma
+ 18 base
+ 2 racial
+ 2 Haunted One template
+ 4 Vampire template
+ 4 Advanced creature template
+ 5 Level
+ 5 Inherent (from wishes, tome, etc...)
40
+ 3 aging
43
That a +16 cha modifier
Bluff
+ 16 Cha mod
+ 20 rank
+ 3 Class skill
+ 6 skill focus
+ 2 (other feat)
+ 8 vampire
55