
buddahcjcc |
It says in the book that you get two spells per level you can cast per level you ... um level.
Does that mean if you can only cast lvl one spells you get two spells but then when youre able to cast lvl one and two spells you get four per level? Two lvl one, two lvl two or do you only get two?
Ive always found that rather vague

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In this case, there are two different definitions of level being used: character level and spell level. Each time your character increases his/her character level (specifically, your wizard level), you can add two spells of an appropriate spell level to the spell book.
The number of spells you can add does not increase; you only add two spells for free each time your wizard level increases.

Alitan |

... and those two spells can be of any spell level you can cast. So if you can cast 2nd-level spells, your two new spells can be 2nd-level, or 1st-level, or one 2nd-level and one 1st-level.
(Or cantrips, but most people don't waste their free spells on new cantrips...)
The only time you'd even have the OPTION is as a specialist, who didn't get his opposition school cantrips @ 1st level... universalists get all the cantrips.
But, yeah, I don't know anyone who'd waste the per level spell gains on cantrips... so much more efficient to just find some other wizard who has 'em, trade him a spell or two in exchange for copying his cantrips out of his book.

Sean K Reynolds Contributor |

1) Honestly, it wouldn't hurt if all wizards got all the starting cantrips. The "except from your opposition schools" text is probably a legacy of 3.5, where you couldn't prepare opposition-school spells at all.
2) There's also the possibility of other cantrips, though Paizo tries not to publish any more official cantrips.

FreelanceEvilGenius |
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1) Honestly, it wouldn't hurt if all wizards got all the starting cantrips. The "except from your opposition schools" text is probably a legacy of 3.5, where you couldn't prepare opposition-school spells at all.
2) There's also the possibility of other cantrips, though Paizo tries not to publish any more official cantrips.
Curious as to why Paizo tries not to publish any more official cantrips?

Sean K Reynolds Contributor |

The rule in the Core Rulebook is "wizards get all cantrips," which means that every new book with cantrips means wizards start with even more spells, and there are some here at Paizo who are uncomfortable with that. However, I personally see that as no different than a book with yet another 1st cleric or druid spell that all clerics miraculously gain access too as soon as the book is available, and cantrips are of such minor power that giving a caster extra options really isn't a big deal.

Khuldar |

The rule in the Core Rulebook is "wizards get all cantrips," which means that every new book with cantrips means wizards start with even more spells, and there are some here at Paizo who are uncomfortable with that. However, I personally see that as no different than a book with yet another 1st cleric or druid spell that all clerics miraculously gain access too as soon as the book is available, and cantrips are of such minor power that giving a caster extra options really isn't a big deal.
Any thoughts on how to curb the power of divine casters knowing everything? In my group we either have very firm rules on what books are allowed in a campaign, or trade core spells out for new ones. Pathfinder doesn't have the years of bloat and splatbooks that 3.5 did, but as more books get published we could get into the same situation. Wizards at least have to find the spell before they copy it into their spell book, or use one of their 2/level free spells. Clerics and druids just know everything.

Alitan |

Sean K Reynolds wrote:The rule in the Core Rulebook is "wizards get all cantrips," which means that every new book with cantrips means wizards start with even more spells, and there are some here at Paizo who are uncomfortable with that. However, I personally see that as no different than a book with yet another 1st cleric or druid spell that all clerics miraculously gain access too as soon as the book is available, and cantrips are of such minor power that giving a caster extra options really isn't a big deal.Any thoughts on how to curb the power of divine casters knowing everything? In my group we either have very firm rules on what books are allowed in a campaign, or trade core spells out for new ones. Pathfinder doesn't have the years of bloat and splatbooks that 3.5 did, but as more books get published we could get into the same situation. Wizards at least have to find the spell before they copy it into their spell book, or use one of their 2/level free spells. Clerics and druids just know everything.
Just a subliminal bonus for being a divine caster, imo, balanced by having to adhere to a particular set of behaviors. Arcane casters may have to scrounge a bit for their spells, but they get to use 'em however they like without worrying about losing their abilities.

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The rule in the Core Rulebook is "wizards get all cantrips," which means that every new book with cantrips means wizards start with even more spells, and there are some here at Paizo who are uncomfortable with that. However, I personally see that as no different than a book with yet another 1st cleric or druid spell that all clerics miraculously gain access too as soon as the book is available, and cantrips are of such minor power that giving a caster extra options really isn't a big deal.
There's also the issue that each cantrip takes up one page in the spellbook. With enough new books with new cantrips, each wizard is going to need to lug around an extra spellbook just for his 0-level spells.

Asphesteros |

The core book discuses how divine casters invent and research new spells just like wizards,
Independent Research: A divine spellcaster can also research a spell independently, much as an arcane spellcaster can. Only the creator of such a spell can prepare and cast it, unless she decides to share it with others.
....so I don't assume new stuff is automatically avalable, just because divine casters pray for spells rather than have a spellbook. Instead, core book spells are "The Cannon" which everyone can get, while stuff from supplements may be available, maybe not, and maybe only by research, or by finding it in an adventure.
I don't know any reason why it shouldn't work the same for wizards, either - "all" cantrips means all core rulebook cantrips, i.e. All the common cantrips eveyrone knows - not necessarily every cantrip ever invented ever..

QWenn with a Q, but it's silent |

" ... There's also the issue that each cantrip takes up one page in the spellbook. With enough new books with new cantrips, each wizard is going to need to lug around an extra spellbook just for his 0-level spells. ..."
This means a new Wizard starts out with more then one quarter of his shiny new spell book bloated with Cantrips. Seriously?
If Scribing a Scroll of a Cantrip costs half the value of a 1st Level spell, couldn't the complexity of a Cantrip be captured on half of a page in a spell book?

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" ... There's also the issue that each cantrip takes up one page in the spellbook. With enough new books with new cantrips, each wizard is going to need to lug around an extra spellbook just for his 0-level spells. ..."
This means a new Wizard starts out with more then one quarter of his shiny new spell book bloated with Cantrips. Seriously?
If Scribing a Scroll of a Cantrip costs half the value of a 1st Level spell, couldn't the complexity of a Cantrip be captured on half of a page in a spell book?
apprentice wizards have to use crayons, and it takes more paper to scribe a spell in crayon...

Lifat |
Drejk wrote:Could we get rid of that "wizards get all cantrips" crap and replace it with "wizards get all cantrips from core rulebook" when the next reprint is due and add more cantrips in future products?Or you can put on some stones as a DM, and make that ruling yourselves.
@LazarX: The whole point of adding the paragraph is to make paizo create more cantrips.
Personally speaking I don't care that much about cantrips. When I play a wizard I make sure that I have the following: Prestidigitation, Read Magic, Detect Magic, Light, Mage Hand, Daze and Ghost Sound. Anything beyond that is gravy IMO.
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@LazarX: The whole point of adding the paragraph is to make paizo create more cantrips.
Do you think that the people who write for this game are simple? Or that you're going to browbeat them with RAW text the way munchkins do with gutless DMs?
Paizo will create what it feels it needs to create, when it feels the need to create them. You want to push them off their planned roadmap, you're going to have to do a lot better than to try to trap them in text.

Lifat |
Lifat wrote:
@LazarX: The whole point of adding the paragraph is to make paizo create more cantrips.
Do you think that the people who write for this game are simple? Or that you're going to browbeat them with RAW text the way munchkins do with gutless DMs?
Paizo will create what it feels it needs to create, when it feels the need to create them. You want to push them off their planned roadmap, you're going to have to do a lot better than to try to trap them in text.
That's not what I meant and if you read my entire post then you could easily see it. Of course I can't force paizo to write anything unless I buy the company... Which considering my financial status at the moment isn't likely to happen.
The current rules means that whenever paizo creates new cantrips then they get automatically added to any wizards spellbook. (except for opposition schools).
The idea was then to change the rules so that wizards only gained the cantrips from the core rulebook for free while the rest would have to be paid for. I assume the person suggesting it worries that paizo aren't creating more cantrips to avoid giving the wizards more free power. The person suggesting it wants paizo to write more cantrips and suggested the rules change so that paizo didn't need to worry about the free power the wizards would gain. At least that is what I assume...
Personally speaking, I think the cantrips in core rulebook is plenty varied and I don't need more than them (although I wouldn't mind having 1 cantrip for each element that does damage).

Remy Balster |

Lifat wrote:
@LazarX: The whole point of adding the paragraph is to make paizo create more cantrips.
Do you think that the people who write for this game are simple? Or that you're going to browbeat them with RAW text the way munchkins do with gutless DMs?
Paizo will create what it feels it needs to create, when it feels the need to create them. You want to push them off their planned roadmap, you're going to have to do a lot better than to try to trap them in text.
Chill mate. Guy was just throwing out a suggestion for how to get more official cantrips in print.
Ain't no one trying to trap no one else in text here, friend. Cantrips are just cool little perks, hardly game breaking levels of power. A couple new ones could be very fun, and people would probably enjoy them.