The party I'm DM'ing is about to encounter a BBEG with an AC of 31 (a Graveknight lizardfolk Fighter 3 with Dex 12 and a ring of protection +1). Now while that might not be a problem for certain parties, This party is made of two fighters (both of whom are two-handed weapon fighters), an alchemist and a wizard (whom in this particular instance decided to leave his spellbook somewhere he cannot access it prior to the encounter).
Now, while I do not wish to scrap the current build of the BBEG, I do not want to outright kill them; this is only their second/third session with me as their DM. Their characters are all level 3.
So my question is in two parts: Is this a reasonable encounter per RAW? (By my calculations this should be a CR 6 encounter; in my experience with other groups this should be challenging, but not impossible and there should not be any PC deaths; however given the party composition, I am doubting my assessment)
As a follow-up what items can I plant in the dungeon for them to use that would make this encounter "easier" (but not too much so; this is supposed to be a BBEG)?
Does the Alchemist have bombs?
What's this BBEG's touch AC?
Tanglefoot bag.
If he's wearing metal armor:
Heat metal and/or Shocking grasp (touch plus bonuses)
Does the Alchemist have bombs?
What's this BBEG's touch AC?
The alchemist does have bombs. He took the Grenadier archetype from one of the splatbooks.
And the BBEG's touch comes in at 12 IIRC.
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Can you provide a breakdown of the Graveknight lizardfolk's AC?
At 31 AC, its seems really high for a lv 3 party. A CR 11 Human Graveknight have only 25 AC...
I suggest providing some sort of environmental or magical means of defeating the Graveknight.
Maybe there a shrine to a Deity nearby that you could have the party lure the Graveknight into and defeated, (Via some divine magic effect/ritual.)
Or lure it into a falling lava trap.
A straight up fight seems overly difficult and is highly prone to trouble and frustration for your current party.
Depends on the dungeon, if they will level up, etc. But as it stands, the parties (A)verage (P)arty (L)evel is 3 (4*3/4) and a challenging encounter is APL + 1 or a CR 4 encounter. You currently have a CR 6 encounter which is APL + 3, or an Epic encounter. You really have a TPK lined up as it will be neigh impossible to get the fighters bonus to hit up high enough to effect the BBEG, without them having an uber weapon at low levels.
You might try a Skeletal Champion instead.
Male Human Fighter 2
CE Medium Undead
Init +6; Senses Darkvision (60 feet); Perception +6
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DEFENSE
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AC 21, touch 12, flat-footed 19 (+7 armor, +2 Dex, +2 natural)
hp 38 (2d10+2d8+12)
Fort +5, Ref +2, Will +2
Defensive Abilities Bravery +1, Channel Resistance +4; DR 5/bludgeoning; Immune cold, Undead Traits
--------------------
OFFENSE
--------------------
Spd 20 ft.
Melee +1 Longsword +8 (1d8+4/19-20/x2) and
Claw x2 (Skeletal Champion) +6 x2 (1d4+4/20/x2) and
Gauntlet (from Armor) +6 (1d3+3/20/x2) and
Unarmed Strike +6 (1d3+3/20/x2)
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STATISTICS
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Str 17, Dex 14, Con -, Int 13, Wis 8, Cha 14
Base Atk +3; CMB +6 (+8 Disarming); CMD 18 (20 vs. Disarm)
Feats Combat Expertise +/-1, Improved Disarm, Improved Initiative, Power Attack -1/+2, Toughness +4,
Weapon Focus: Longsword
Skills Acrobatics -2, Climb +6, Escape Artist -2, Fly -2, Intimidate +9, Perception +6, Ride -2, Sense
Motive +6, Stealth +3, Swim -1
Languages Chelaxian, Common
Combat Gear +1 Chainmail, +1 Longsword;
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SPECIAL ABILITIES
--------------------
Bravery +1 (Ex) +1 Will save vs. Fear
Channel Resistance +4 +4 bonus to save vs. Channel Energy.
Combat Expertise +/-1 Bonus to AC in exchange for an equal penalty to attack.
Damage Reduction (5/bludgeoning) You have Damage Reduction against all except Bludgeoning attacks.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Immunity to Cold You are immune to cold damage.
Improved Disarm Disarm at +2, without an attack of opportunity.
Power Attack -1/+2 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Undead Traits Undead are immune to death effects, disease, mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions,
morale effects, phantasms, and patterns), paralysis, poison, sleep, stun, and any effect that requires a
Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects
However, if you don't want to do that, I suggest some sort of consumable divine object that drains the negative energy from undead, weakening them in the process. The drained energy would institute a penalty to AC and attack/damage, possibly HP as well. Maybe a save every round or it is stunned. As it stands the Graveknight is too powerful for your party and they will more than likely die.
What's his CMD vs the fighters' CMB? I'm guessing he has 15ish?
Can you provide a breakdown of the Graveknight lizardfolk's AC?
At 31 AC, its seems really high for a lv 3 party. A CR 11 Human Graveknight have only 25 AC...I suggest providing some sort of environmental or magical means of defeating the Graveknight.
Maybe there a shrine to a Deity nearby that you could have the party lure the Graveknight into and defeated, (Via some divine magic effect/ritual.)Or lure it into a falling lava trap.
A straight up fight seems overly difficult and is highly prone to trouble and frustration for your current party.
I think it all stems from the fact that this is a lizardman graveknight.
Lizardmen have a +5 bonus to natural armor. (+5)
Add +4 for the graveknight template (+4)
The knight is wearing half-plate +8 (+8)
He has armor training 1 so he can apply his +1 bonus from Dex (+1)
And I might be mistaken; he does not have a ring of protection +1, he has a +1 heavy shield. (+3)
Adds up to 31 AC
I wouldn't mind switching to an alternate template, such as the skeletal champion for a total CR of 5, but it will still be a lizardfolk base as that is the theme I'm going for (Plot reasons).
Spells, bombs and combat maneuvers. Is there something you aren't telling us?
If I'm not, it isn't intentional. As I said I want to give them a challenge, and a good sized one, but not a TPK. But I also want to introduce them to "thinking on their feet" and going beyond standard tactics.
Well a lizardfolk skeletal champion would still be a threat with a good AC. The one I posted had a 21, AC and he was only a second level fighter. I'm gonna go roll up a Lizardfolk Fighter/Skeletal Champion and see how that turns out.
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Just did a search for AC 31 monsters at www.d20pfsrd.com. The lowest is a CR 13 Mouselord from tome of horrors.
Your BBEG is just TOO high in terms of base AC.
AS the DM, you need to provide your party with a reasonable means to overcome this BBEG's defenses. Maybe they got a bunch of Holy water? (to throw at the GraveKnight.)
Hmm, initial thoughts on Lizardfolk Skeletal Champion isn't good. Something I forgot is the Natural Armor from the Lizardfolk is replaced with the Skeleton Natural Armor of +2.
i'm gonna throw my support in on the non-standard melee tactics. Combat maneuvers are always fun (even if you don't have the Improved feats). Give them terrain to work with? Can they push him back into some water? Fire? Trip him into flaming water?
If there are no mooks around, he doesn't get surprise, and they are not too beat up when they find him, it should be doable.
Might suggest they hear some rumors about how difficult this dude is to hit due to his skill and armor. That should give them a heads up that they need to consider something other than standard rush-and-bash tactics.
{ We had a group once that we took turns charging and running away for the +2 to hit a high AC monster. }
Might need to hint that they should consider touch attacks and combat maneuvers. It kinda depends on the experience level of the group for how strong/obvious the hint needs to be.
If you are still worried about a TPK give him a spiked chain. Then have the BBEG trip and disarm them. Maybe he grabs their weapon after disarming them, throws it out into the muddy lake, and just laughs at them. Maybe if the fighter loses his favorite sword, he'll be more likely to try a grapple.
Hmm, initial thoughts on Lizardfolk Skeletal Champion isn't good. Something I forgot is the Natural Armor from the Lizardfolk is replaced with the Skeleton Natural Armor of +2.
Well, here he is, I ended up giving him a +1 shield as well.
Male Lizardfolk Fighter 2
CE Medium Undead
Init +6; Senses Darkvision (60 feet); Perception +8
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DEFENSE
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AC 26, touch 12, flat-footed 24 (+7 armor, +4 shield, +2 Dex, +3 natural)
hp 49 (2d10+4d8+18)
Fort +6, Ref +3, Will +3
Defensive Abilities Bravery +1, Channel Resistance +4; DR 5/bludgeoning; Immune cold, Undead Traits
--------------------
OFFENSE
--------------------
Spd 20 ft., Swimming (15 feet)
Melee Heavy Shield Bash +10 (1d4+5/20/x2) and
+1 Longsword +12 (1d8+6/19-20/x2) and
Bite (Lizardfolk) +5 (1d4+2/20/x2) and
Claw x2 (Skeletal Champion) +5 x2 (1d4+2/20/x2) and
Gauntlet (from Armor) +10 (1d3+5/20/x2) and
--------------------
STATISTICS
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Str 20, Dex 14, Con -, Int 8, Wis 8, Cha 14
Base Atk +5; CMB +10; CMD 22
Feats Improved Initiative, Improved Natural Armor, Power Attack -2/+4, Shield Focus, Toughness +6,
Weapon Focus: Longsword
Skills Acrobatics +1, Climb +0, Escape Artist -3, Fly -3, Intimidate +11, Perception +8, Ride -3, Sense
Motive +4, Stealth -3, Swim +8
Languages Draconic
SQ Hold Breath (x4) (Ex)
Combat Gear +1 Chainmail, +1 Longsword, +1 Shield, Heavy Steel;
--------------------
SPECIAL ABILITIES
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Bravery +1 (Ex) +1 Will save vs. Fear
Channel Resistance +4 +4 bonus to save vs. Channel Energy.
Damage Reduction (5/bludgeoning) You have Damage Reduction against all except Bludgeoning attacks.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Hold Breath (x4) (Ex) You can stay under water longer than normal.
Immunity to Cold You are immune to cold damage.
Power Attack -2/+4 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Shield Focus +1 Shield AC
Swimming (15 feet) You have a Swim speed.
Undead Traits Undead are immune to death effects, disease, mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions,
morale effects, phantasms, and patterns), paralysis, poison, sleep, stun, and any effect that requires a
Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects
How much is is attack/damage, how many attacks does he get? If he's pure turtle, they'll have time to figure out such and the Fighters will hopefully just hold the line fighting defensively while the Alchemist and wizard whittle him down. It'll be a long, gruelling, grindy fight...sort of like 4E... but since most 3E/PF fights tends to be quick rocket tag matches, that's not a bad change of pace.
As long as he is just as slow and inefficient at hurting them as they are hurting him (roughly), it shouldn't be a problem.
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Melee Heavy Shield Bash +10 (1d4+5/20/x2) and
+1 Longsword +12 (1d8+6/19-20/x2) and
Bite (Lizardfolk) +5 (1d4+2/20/x2) and
Claw x2 (Skeletal Champion) +5 x2 (1d4+2/20/x2) and
Gauntlet (from Armor) +10 (1d3+5/20/x2) and
Aside from the cliffhanger "and" at the end of your list of attacks, you've got some issues here. Primarily, you've listed all attacks with "and" in between, which means he gets them all in the same attack sequence. This in turn means he has five arms to use a sword, shield bash, gauntlet, and two claws.
Say hello to the word "or". ;)
Use the lizardman from the playtest of alternate races.
That drops his NA to 3 instead of 5.
List his armor and shield as 'rusty and broken'- they can still have it as loot, but it will need repair before it can give the full AC.
That should drop his AC by 5-6 pts.
If you have to ask then you know his AC is too high. Drop the ring of protection, +1 shield, and his dex armor bonus. That's now a 28 armor class. If I was a PC, I would consider it BS, but I've never had a problem with intentional TPKs. I just always figured the DM took something personal and then I moved on. It's only a game after all and I enjoy creating characters.
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It's not just the high AC, the Graveknight has DR 10/magic, three energy immunities and spell resistance 17(?). Looks like a TPK waiting to happen.
If fighters have no magic weapons they are hosed. Not likely they do as that would be 75% of WBL.
If wizard only has spells that are subject to SR then he is hosed. Hope he is a typical conjuration specialist.
If alchemist chooses wrong energy types for bombs he is hosed.
Lucky Round 1:
Wizard likely gets initiative : Create Pit or Glitterdust (both ignore SR) DC 19 (+5 int, +2 level, +2 spell focus conjuration) vs low will/reflex save of +3 ish. Spell lands. Down but by no means out.
Alchemist: bombs - if he is lucky he chooses the right energy type
Fighters: flank and attack. One hits.
Looks like this fight is down to saving throws and luck.
Melee Heavy Shield Bash +10 (1d4+5/20/x2) and
+1 Longsword +12 (1d8+6/19-20/x2) and
Bite (Lizardfolk) +5 (1d4+2/20/x2) and
Claw x2 (Skeletal Champion) +5 x2 (1d4+2/20/x2) and
Gauntlet (from Armor) +10 (1d3+5/20/x2) and
Aside from the cliffhanger "and" at the end of your list of attacks, you've got some issues here. Primarily, you've listed all attacks with "and" in between, which means he gets them all in the same attack sequence. This in turn means he has five arms to use a sword, shield bash, gauntlet, and two claws.
Say hello to the word "or". ;)
Actually, that's HeroLabs putting the 'and' into the statblock. When I really want to make a creature, I make one on HeroLabs and one by hand and compare the two to see if I missed anything or if the program got some stuff messed up (which it does from time to time). When I do thought experiments like a Lizardfolk Skeletal Champion, I'll roll it up on HeroLabs and leave it as that to see a potential power and effectiveness.
List his armor and shield as 'rusty and broken'- they can still have it as loot, but it will need repair before it can give the full AC.
That should drop his AC by 5-6 pts.
+1
Edit: Bah, read the template. . .
OK, you still want the wizard/alchemist going for will save spells, but the ones that still work on undead -- most especially glitterdust.
If you were going to drop an item in the dungeon for the PCs to use, a wand of glitterdust would be helpful (with like 10-15 charges). Even with a low DC, disabling the bad guy for a round or two would be a huge tempo shift.
Then you can use the wizard/alchemist as aid another grapplers and pin this guy. The other fighter can then pummel him.
Using those same numbers, those sam fighters can target this guys' CMD and succeed on a 7+. Then, on top of the modifiers above, the bad guy is prone/grappled/disarmed/weaponless/blind, etc.
What spells/formulae can the wizard and alchemist use in the fight?
A 31 AC for a third level party is pretty high. What are the BBEG's saves?
As others have noted, attacking that AC is going to be a problem. The CMB vs CMD is a good idea, but you still need to do damage to defeat the encounter.
The best way to tackle this in the absence of powerful damage dealing touch attacks would be to attack the BBEG's AC so that the two 2-handed fighters can whale away on the BBEG with full round attacks.
So, put him on the ground (bonus to hit), buff up the fighters (bull's strength would be nice), sunder the shield, etc... Once the AC is down or the attack bonus is up enough, and you've got the thing on the ground... beat the pickle juice out of it.
Ok, so I'm finally home where I have access to my notes. His (or her as I have in the notes) CMD is a 21. I think the problem is that I have a feeling they will have exhausted a lot of their supplies just exploring, and will not think of resting just prior to "that one guy" . So forget about them being fresh; they will be hurting. So I'm thinking perhaps I should instead go for a skeletal champion as described above and save the Graveknight for a later day. It's not like there wont be other opportunities to slip that one into the story.
I wish I could answer your questions about the party's resources, but I have only looked at their sheets once so far. I would have a better idea if, as I had asked, they had sent me a copy of their sheets, but they didn't which has led me to prepare ... well ... a CR6 monstrosity with 31 AC. Which I suspected after last session's encounter would eat them alive. Thank you for confirming that.
By the way, noone answered if this was in fact correct; is this a "legal" CR6 opponent? (forget about him being beatable, and go over my numbers.)
