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What would happen if you had, say, a rogue who at level 5 gets a headband of +2 intelligence, with Stealth on it as its skill, and then, having for some reason not put any ranks in Stealth before, now decides to take the next 15 levels using a combination of Shadowdancer and Assassin ....
.... and then he steps into an Antimagic Shell?
Would he go back to being a 5th level Rogue?
Richard
What would happen if you had, say, a rogue who at level 5 gets a headband of +2 intelligence, with Stealth on it as its skill, and then, having for some reason not put any ranks in Stealth before, now decides to take the next 15 levels using a combination of Shadowdancer and Assassin ....
.... and then he steps into an Antimagic Shell?
Would he go back to being a 5th level Rogue?
Richard
I'd say the player should be smacked for manufacturing such a situation.
This honestly isn't the sort of thing that really happens organically IMO; I have no idea what the best way to handle it would be, but I'd probably start by asking the player not to cause trouble in the future :/
Class levels are not taken away by anti-magic. The class abilities won't be able to be used though.
You would need to put at least 5 ranks into stealth baseline before you can become a shadowdancer
A headband of intelligence give you ranks in certain skills equal to your character level so as a 5th level rogue the headband would apply the ranks.
sorta off-topic: I also think it is bad to use an item to qualify for a class, and I would probably houserule it away if a player tried it, for reasons like this.
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You also need to consider magical devices which raise your stats which you then use to get a feat which is itself a pre-requisite for a presitige class.
For example, a belt of Dex +2, which raises your dex to 13, which allows you to take Mobility as a feat, which allows you to become a shadowdancer.
Or how about a headband of Wis which raises it to 13, which allows you to cast 3rd level divine spells, which you use as a pre-requisite for Loremaster.
And so on.
This domino effect is presumably possible through ability draining as well, and Feeblemind (?)
I think you could fall into this trap quite easily, particularly if you're thinking of dipping into prestige classes at higher levels which you only just qualify for and you haven't realised that you are dependent on some item for that qualification.
Richard
He would keep the hit dice, saves, skill ranks, and BAB from the prestige classes. In PFS play, I would strip him of everything else. And mock him. Might even throw some gummy bears at him as I chortle.
In a home game, if this somehow happened in a logical manner, I would let him keep any of his current class abilities that he'd also get as a rogue of his level (like uncanny dodge, talents, and sneak attack dice).
You also need to consider magical devices which raise your stats which you then use to get a feat which is itself a pre-requisite for a presitige class.
When your ability score drops below the prerequisite for a feat, you lose access to the feat. You don't lose the feat; just access to it.
A 12 dex shadowdancer still has the prerequisite feats; he just can't use them.
There is still the chance that you lose access to class abilities dependent on the feat in question, but I don't think you'd be stripped of all your goodies.
I really can't believe anyone would imagine that a *temporary* state -- having skill ranks due to a magic item -- would allow a character to qualify for a *permanent* improvement -- like a prestige class. Just sayin'. Personally, I would never let someone pull a stoopid stunt like that.
I mean, honestly. Magic items can be stolen, broken, disjunctioned, etc. Further, skill ranks granted by a magic item are not -- to my mind -- the same as skill ranks gained through practice, training, sweat, and experience. You're not qualified to be a mechanic just because your smartphone can google up how-to websites...
The same logic applies to stat boosts via magic items; you wouldn't be able to take them [feats] under the effect of cat's grace, et. al. Why on earth would you be able to take them because you're wearing a spiffy belt?
This isn't a nightmare because of the antimagic; it's a nightmare because people don't THINK (or DO think, but turn their cleverness to trying to exploit -- non-existent -- loopholes).
In my humble (and correct) opinion. :)
I really can't believe anyone would imagine that a *temporary* state -- having skill ranks due to a magic item -- would allow a character to qualify for a *permanent* improvement -- like a prestige class. Just sayin'. Personally, I would never let someone pull a stoopid stunt like that.
I mean, honestly. Magic items can be stolen, broken, disjunctioned, etc. Further, skill ranks granted by a magic item are not -- to my mind -- the same as skill ranks gained through practice, training, sweat, and experience. You're not qualified to be a mechanic just because your smartphone can google up how-to websites...
The same logic applies to stat boosts via magic items; you wouldn't be able to take them [feats] under the effect of cat's grace, et. al. Why on earth would you be able to take them because you're wearing a spiffy belt?
This isn't a nightmare because of the antimagic; it's a nightmare because people don't THINK (or DO think, but turn their cleverness to trying to exploit -- non-existent -- loopholes).
In my humble (and correct) opinion. :)
Bonuses from items are not considered temporary, but permanent. The intention is that if you get a STR 13 from a belt of ogre's strength, you qualify for Power Attack.
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I really can't believe anyone would imagine that a *temporary* state -- having skill ranks due to a magic item -- would allow a character to qualify for a *permanent* improvement -- like a prestige class. Just sayin'. Personally, I would never let someone pull a stoopid stunt like that.
I mean, honestly. Magic items can be stolen, broken, disjunctioned, etc. Further, skill ranks granted by a magic item are not -- to my mind -- the same as skill ranks gained through practice, training, sweat, and experience. You're not qualified to be a mechanic just because your smartphone can google up how-to websites...
The same logic applies to stat boosts via magic items; you wouldn't be able to take them [feats] under the effect of cat's grace, et. al. Why on earth would you be able to take them because you're wearing a spiffy belt?
This isn't a nightmare because of the antimagic; it's a nightmare because people don't THINK (or DO think, but turn their cleverness to trying to exploit -- non-existent -- loopholes).
In my humble (and correct) opinion. :)
This is the rules forum. Your opinion, however humble, is not correct. Any bonus lasting more than 24 hours is considered permanent for the effects of qualifying for feats and other things like prestige classes. This is the devs stated guidelines and intentions. JJ has commented on it several times. You get str 13 from a magic item, you can qualify for power attack if its been worn more than 24 hrs. you lose the item, you can no longer use power attack till the score is back up.
Sorry to burst your bubble like this, but outbursts like that are much better in the houserules forum. While I agree that you should be right, per the rules, you aren't.
I really can't believe anyone would imagine that a *temporary* state -- having skill ranks due to a magic item -- would allow a character to qualify for a *permanent* improvement -- like a prestige class. Just sayin'. Personally, I would never let someone pull a stoopid stunt like that.
I mean, honestly. Magic items can be stolen, broken, disjunctioned, etc. Further, skill ranks granted by a magic item are not -- to my mind -- the same as skill ranks gained through practice, training, sweat, and experience. You're not qualified to be a mechanic just because your smartphone can google up how-to websites...
The same logic applies to stat boosts via magic items; you wouldn't be able to take them [feats] under the effect of cat's grace, et. al. Why on earth would you be able to take them because you're wearing a spiffy belt?
This isn't a nightmare because of the antimagic; it's a nightmare because people don't THINK (or DO think, but turn their cleverness to trying to exploit -- non-existent -- loopholes).
In my humble (and correct) opinion. :)
This is the rules forum. Your opinion, however humble, is not correct. Any bonus lasting more than 24 hours is considered permanent for the effects of qualifying for feats and other things like prestige classes. This is the devs stated guidelines and intentions. JJ has commented on it several times. You get str 13 from a magic item, you can qualify for power attack if its been worn more than 24 hrs. you lose the item, you can no longer use power attack till the score is back up.
Sorry to burst your bubble like this, but outbursts like that are much better in the houserules forum. While I agree that you should be right, per the rules, you aren't.
Hmph. OK, so my opinion isn't correct. I suppose it was bound to happen sooner or later.
But really? You can use item boosts for qualifying? That just seems terribly wrong to me. And it sets up problems like the one that started the thread...
"... devs stated guidelines, etc." Devs? Sorry, don't actually have PFS Abbreviations Linguistics rating. Likewise, I don't know who JJ is... I assume someone high in the rankings, as you're citing them.
And I guess I should try to avoid letting any personality leak through into my posting, lest I get written off as an outburst. :(
Devs = developers, the guys who make the game
JJ = James Jacobs, one of the developers
Others not mentioned:
SKR = Sean K Reynolds, another Dev
Jason = Jason Buhlman, a dev, but more on the creative than rules side (his words are taken as good houserules, usually, and not as FAQs or errata)
Devs = developers, the guys who make the game
JJ = James Jacobs, one of the developersOthers not mentioned:
SKR = Sean K Reynolds, another Dev
Jason = Jason Buhlman, a dev, but more on the creative than rules side (his words are taken as good houserules, usually, and not as FAQs or errata)
Actually, JJ is the Creative Director (and only a source of house rules) and Jason Buhlman is the Lead Designer. But other than that, it's accurate.
I always get them backwards for some reason.
Thanks for the clarifications!