I have a gnome/fey-blooded sorcerer who knows Minor Image. The party will be coming up against enemies that familiar with magic and have spellcraft.
Is there any point in casting an illusion in combat (while observed)?
Do enemies that successfully make the spellcraft check automatically disbelieve?
Do they get an automatic save to pierce the illusion?
If I am invisible first do they get a spellcraft check?
I have a gnome/fey-blooded sorcerer who knows Minor Image. The party will be coming up against enemies that familiar with magic and have spellcraft.
Is there any point in casting an illusion in combat (while observed)?
Do enemies that successfully make the spellcraft check automatically disbelieve?
Do they get an automatic save to pierce the illusion?
If I am invisible first do they get a spellcraft check?
If they successfully determine the caster has cast Minor Image, I'd consider that pretty solid proof that any effect produced by said spell was an illusion. No real way around that.
Anyone who did not successfully identify the spell being cast would still need to save though, likely benefitting from the free save and the +4 bonus granted by their buddy telling them the caster just cast Minor Image.
EDIT: Being invisible would not remove Verbal Components from the spell, and therefore I'd say anyone capable of perceiving those components would still get a Spellcraft check. If your GM is generous, there should be a generic -2 circumstance penalty to it IMO.
For spellcraft you must clearly see the spell being cast. You could argue that if they can't see you they can't identify it.
Hmm. You're totally right per RAW. Spellcraft calls out needing to see the spell being cast, which makes it seem like visual perception is all that matters.
So invisibility should work.
First of all enemies don't get to disbelieve mirror image, that's not how the spell works.
On the illusion+spellcraft, well the rules are silent on that so it's up to any DM, personally i think that they only get +4 to their if and when they interact.
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Even if they see you cast a spell and something appears, as long as it appears in such a way that it looks like you "summoned" it, then they won't auto-save. This is assuming they don't spellcraft it.
For instance, you make a wall of vines appear in front of the party to disrupt enemy archers targeting, you have the image appear in such a way as to make it look like the vines are forming from the ground up, making it seem like a reasonable conjuration or transmutation spell and not fake. They would not get to make a save to disbelieve unless they interact with it.
miNor image not mirror image.First of all enemies don't get to disbelieve mirror image, that's not how the spell works.
On the illusion+spellcraft, well the rules are silent on that so it's up to any DM, personally i think that they only get +4 to their if and when they interact.
What?
Ops, sorry i misread.
I have a gnome/fey-blooded sorcerer who knows Minor Image. The party will be coming up against enemies that familiar with magic and have spellcraft.
Is there any point in casting an illusion in combat (while observed)?
Sure. The only things that trigger a save versus an figment are interaction and careful study. There is a way to bypass a save: automatic disbelief. If you create a figment that is unbelievable or something happens to the figment that is unbelievable, everyone automatically saves against it.
Do enemies that successfully make the spellcraft check automatically disbelieve?
It's not rocket science that observing someone casting a minor image spell and a frost giant appearing are related. However, the rules don't state that knowing an figment spell has been cast is grounds for automatic disbelief. When you observe a spell being cast and identify the spell, you aren't doing *anything* to the effects of the spell.
Do they get an automatic save to pierce the illusion?
I would say no. The figment effect isn't carefully studied nor is it interacted with by observing/identifying the spell that created it being cast. By the rules as written, there is no bonus to disbelief a figment even if you just saw a minor image spell cast.
Think about it from the perspective of shadow spells. . . say shadow evocation. If someone casts shadow evocation and you identify it, you know that fireball coming at you isn't a fully real fireball. But when it actually hits, it could be so convincing and well-designed that you think it's a fireball anyway (you failed your will save). It's the same thing with figments. That frost giant could be so convincing that regardless of whether or not an image spell was cast, you could still think there's a real frost giant there.
If I am invisible first do they get a spellcraft check?
Identifying a spell as it is being cast requires no action, but you must be able to clearly see the spell as it is being cast, and this incurs the same penalties as a Perception skill check due to distance, poor conditions, and other factors.
So according to Pathfinder rules, an invisible creature's spells would be unable to identified via spellcraft (unless you can see invisibility, etc). Hearing the verbal components is no longer important (it was in 3.5).
15 + spell level: Identify a spell being cast. (You must see or hear the spell’s verbal or somatic components.) No action required. No retry.