The purpose of this thread is to analyze (in a not that in-depth analysis) how playing a different gender can change a character and how you act with her, even if the character is (mostly) the same.
Let me provide my example - since I think it's relevant, let me say I'm a 23-year old male who has been playing since 3.5. I started in...oh...'05, I think.
I enjoy playing Paladins, and love the changes made from 3.5 during the conversion into Pathfinder. When I look at a Paladin build, I notice how I role-play that Paladin changes based on the character's sex.
With a female Paladin, I look at the Orders and find myself liking the ideas of the Order of Chastity, even if I hate the benefits (I love Divine Grace, and it's a big deal to me to lose that). So I take the order, ignore the things I'm supposed to trade for it, and simply add the fluff to my Paladin Oath. As such, I cannot even imagine engaging in a romantic act with my female Paladin.
When I play a male Paladin, I like the over-arching theme of the Oath (never putting one person above your never-ending mission), but I also enjoy a Paladin who can enjoy the finer things in life - drinking fine wine (never to drunkenness), sleeping in fine inns, and enjoying the occasional fling (which he is 100% clear about before anything happens - this is one night, nothing more) with the beautiful bar maid at the local tavern before heading out the next morning.
Maybe it's just me. Does anyone else encounter similar situations when they play characters of different genders, even when the concepts are similar?
I guess I'll start with the sexism.
Male elf= dude in a silk gown
Female elf= beautiful chick in a silk gown
EDIT: Also
Male Barbarian= crusher of worlds
Female Barbarian= crazy girl with anger issues
Maybe it's just me. Does anyone else encounter similar situations when they play characters of different genders, even when the concepts are similar?
I do notice that in both my playing and a few other whom I have gamed with.
One Player, I gamed with played male Playboy characters very often, but his two female characters would flirt a bit, but were very caste.
I don't role girls because I play with teenage guys and that would be weird.
When I play male characters I tend to see them more as an avatar of myself and usually fall prey to handling situations as I myself would (or as I wish I was able to).
When I play female characters however, since I am not female, it actually requires me to engage in the roleplaying aspect of the game more fully since they can't very well be an avatar of my male self.
Maybe it's a personal failing on my part, but I just find that I'm able to breathe life into the character as a separate being more naturally when they are not the same gender as me.
When I play female characters however, since I am not female, it actually requires me to engage in the roleplaying aspect of the game more fully since they can't very well be an avatar of my male self.
This happens when I play any non- city slicker human. If I play Ulfen, I read on vikings. If I play elf, I spend a fourth of a day reading Elves of Golarion.
When I play a male I find that I build the character with more characteristics of my own personality not really as an avatar of me, but with more tendencies and opinions that reflect something similar to my own. When I play a female I tend to look at it more like an actor does a foreign script. I can feel her mood, see her perspective, and even get into it, but I always have a thin wall separating us reminding me that I'm roleplaying. The same thing happens when I run non human based races, but that is pretty rare for me.
As far as the whole fling suave thing it tends to not come up to often with characters I run. The last female character I ran was a free spirit in shadowrun who spent half of her time looking like a nine foot tall preying mantis. Most people that would have been interested in her drop dead gorgeous form were quickly turned off after outside parties left the room and she went back to what she was most comfortable with. She did have her party start screaming about bug spirits and take a flamethrower to her once.
I have played with guys that got a little too into running the hot female controller archetype to the extent that it got a little creepy not as bad as the wizard that always summons a succubus, but still. Although now that I think on it. I did play with a girl that did the same thing so maybe its an archetype characteristic and not a player one.
I am not trying to make a statement here, but in truth end up playing female PCs as smarter than my male PCs. With NPCs I haven't noticed a difference -- but that may be because my male NPCs are smarter than my male PCs.
When I play female characters however, since I am not female, it actually requires me to engage in the roleplaying aspect of the game more fully since they can't very well be an avatar of my male self.Maybe it's a personal failing on my part, but I just find that I'm able to breathe life into the character as a separate being more naturally when they are not the same gender as me.
*In all honesty, I am talking about men playing as women. Had a female player once, and her characters were consistently slutty bards. As such, she will not be used
I have seen it work quite differently depending on who is playing the opposite gender*. For instance, one fellow actually went out of his way to play the most bland character he could. I suspect it was not out of some negative view of women, just not knowing what to do. The lot of my gaming group will essentially only play out a female character as far as to describe a possible mate, and even then they are fairly asexual.
I do remember at one time running a female character and it was almost impossible for the guys to keep the pronouns right. After that got sorted out, I still remember probably the most gender specific point being during the incarceration of a guy. (d20 modern, police/swat type theme) Rape was threatened against my character, and in response the party felt keen to *ahem* deprive him of civil liberties. Really though, in my groups the goal seems to be to treat the female party member as one of the guys.
A small ramble on this follows to a degree possibly off topic. As such, shoved in spoilers.
It seems to me that most of my mates are terribly sexually repressed in some manner or other. Indeed, repressed in general. I must suspect that this has something to do with the tend of the genderblind behavior happening. There is some disconnect entirely regarding and true-to-life differences socially, and on some level physically. Add to that a slight tendency, which I myself am guilty of at times, to view the game as mostly wargame.
Hmm.....
Like most of the above posters, when I play a male character, being a male, I find the male tends to have certain tendencies and characteristics of mine when I'm playing an organic character. Having been schooled in acting, and being a writer myself, however, I find myself able to get into character for characters that I fully develop personalities and backgrounds for, even if they're entirely contrary to my own. I suppose my schooling is the reason for that, so I'm probably quite different from most.
When playing a female character, I always develop the personality based off the background. Sadly, my group has asked me to stop playing female characters, since my roleplaying is true to my character. Such as my (True Primitive/Wild Rager) Barbarian Halfling girl.... Terrified of men, completely uninterested in mature themes, and is more interested in smashing orc and goblin head for killing her parents in a raid on her village years ago.
Of course, when it comes to my group they generally play the same gender as themselves as pure avatars. When it comes to the opposite gender, they're almost nothing more than slutty booze-guzzling... I'll stop there, but you get the idea. On both sides, even. My group had two female players, and one of them played her males as Aasimars or Elves, complete man whores. The other one is my GF and she hasn't touched playing a male yet, lol.
I'm hoping, having left my previous play group, to get into a play group that actually role plays, rather than saying that they love to RP, and do it in all their games, yet every decision is along the lines of the Excuse-Alignment-Kitten-Stomping-Bastard-Munchkin. CN my rumpus, more like CE.... Anyways, hoping the new group is fine with me playing my female characters true to form.
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RAW, it has no affect at all.
RAW, it has no affect at all.
Actually it does. Such as the feminist goblin societies and other groups with gender-specific roles.
I find myself playing male and female NPCs all the time as I GM a lot and my campaigns tend to run for a long while.
When I am the opposite sex individual I do notice myself more aware of certain boundaries, but I find that if I try to tastefully articulate and act how that character would act it becomes a memorable experience.
When I do have a chance to make a PC, they are usually male, as my musings on what kind of PC I want is based upon exploring an aspect of my personality. Every once and a while I will make them female, it is because it is something that would fit more with the back story I am crafting. The gender then serves the personality and history of the character, so, I guess, I find little difference.
I have played mostly male characters. I've played two female characters but only one with any significant continuity.
I would say the differences in personality between my male characters is more than the difference between an "average" male character and my female character.
The only deliberate gender-related thing I have put into my female character is more of a maternal sense when she is around children. Perhaps that's sexist, I dunno, but it felt right and I think it adds to her charm.
The main thing I have noticed about playing a female character in a male dominated game world is that she is the target of an inordinate number of bad gender-related jokes. Oh, and when I mention to some gamers that I have a female character I get a "you play a chick?" response a lot more than I would expect. I guess that goes with the territory.
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When I play females, they don't usually come on to others because the men aren't usually more than stereotypes anyway. The beefy barbarian that only cares about dominating women, the paladin that's so chaste that he's afraid of women, the over bearing fighter that's just full of himself, the pretty boy bard that jokes so much that's it gets annoying...
Also starting relationships with NPCs can be difficult or awkward or both if you're GM is not committed; starting relationships with a player's character is pretty much the same deal.
I suppose that's when I play males, I try to make them sort of idealized. I want them to be charming or awkward, but without the overbearing, stereotyping quirk.
I've wanted to play a transgendered character for sometime, but I don't know how to go about explaining it so that others don't try to twist it into something sexual. =/
When I play females, I play them very very badly. I can't help but believe that I don't need diplomacy anymore because charisma (=beauty +/-) and my gender are better. They become easy sl*ts and are more or less a joke. They always turn out silly hysterical frightened little creatures.
Don't worry, that's not the image I have of women, but I can't play them any differently, therefor I'll never play as a woman again. It doesn't work.
When I GM and a player is gender-switched I all too often forget at the beginning, leading to some funny discussions.
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I've wanted to play a transgendered character for sometime, but I don't know how to go about explaining it so that others don't try to twist it into something sexual. =/
Mining the setting's cultural norms to turn around all subtle-like could help, that is if the culture doesn't already have some ideas on that concept already, like the notion of a "third gender" or "twin souls".
But yeah, keeping other people at the table from turning it into a simplified joke or (even if unintentionally) forcing it to be a flat one-note character always seems to be the hard part.
I've been playing female character regularly for years (I'm male). I find for some reason I can come up with more backgrounds that interest me when I create female PCs, each with their own quirks and behaviors. I didn't see many female players growing up, so I felt the party needed an "alternate perspective" :) Now, I do it mostly to annoy my best friend. My most recent character is male, however, and I'm enjoying him. My females are never promiscuous, though the one drow wizardess could play that way if it got her where she wanted; most of the time she was a bookworm.
i'll be the first to admit that i'm more rollplayer than roleplayer :( (i try, but i always seem to stuff it up.) but none the less i've tried to RP characters of another gender (i'm male myself). my major problem has always been that i find it hard to avoid either overplaying the change or ignoring it entirely. i'm getting better, slowly, but playing the other sex is not as easy as the uninitiated may think.
and now, on with the show *puts feet up and waits expectantly*
as a PS: this thread has inspired me to overcome my fear and have another crack at it. wish me luck!
I played a schitzophrenic sorc in 3.5, who had multiple personalities that were different genders, different races, and thought they were different classes. The gm let me take a slightly reduced spell list for each different personality, and we random rolled for a new one anytime he made a save, failed certain skill checks, or was surprised.
In my games it is less of an issue, we have 4 male and 3 female players (counting ST), and most of us play whatever gender best fits the character we are interested in playing. Of these 7, 3 of them almost always play their own gender (1 man, 2 women). The rest of us are comfortable with either gender (we currently have a party of 1 guy and 5 girls).
I can't speak for the others but I know when I first started playing female characters (I am a guy) I was quite worried about offending the female players with a possibly offensive characterization, but that turned out to be entirely a non-issue, and the feeling faded away somewhere while playing my second female character.
thanks Liam. got my GF's support this time, so that should help.
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Okay, we get it, the topic is volatile. Do we have to shake the bottle by pointing that out over and over and not contributing to the conversation?
The thread will become a sexist train wreck only if sexist train wrecks post in in. Call me an optimist.
Unfortunately many of the games I have played in show women as either lesbians or ice queens, whether played by men or women. I prefer to play male characters but as a GM, I have to play female NPCs. I'd love to change that thought among the gaming community by actually having a well-adjusted straight female character like Jaheira and Khalid from Baldur's Gate. Ever seen a character get married and play it out well?
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I am not trying to make a statement here, but in truth end up playing female PCs as smarter than my male PCs. With NPCs I haven't noticed a difference -- but that may be because my male NPCs are smarter than my male PCs.
I think this makes sense, because men can get by (not that they always do) on muscles, subtle social dominance and women have to get around such obstacles from an early age. I know the game system doesn't work this way, but the way we think of gender in RL does.
I think about it the same way I think about any difference and tend to construct those differences into how I play. For example, I was playing a half elf recently, and I thought about what it would be like to 'not quite click' with everyone around you, rather like having Aspergers. Therefore her best friend was her eidolon, the only 'person' who 'got' her. I decided she was female because it made her more vunerable, where as a male half elf might try to get by on bravado. I decided she grew up in a male dominated world (a ranch), didn't have many 'girlfriends' and as a result was a bit of a tomboy.
Basically, all those things fit together, including gender, I notice I tend to come up with interesting characters whereas when I don't the character are kinda flat.
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In our Serpent Skull campaign, I play a female Halfling Sorcerer which I portray as a good-hearted empty-headed bimbo (INT 7, WIS 8, CHA 20).
I would never even consider playing the same character as a male.
Not because I feel that it would be unworthy of a male character, but because I see the equivalent male character as hopeless for an adventurer : the likeable but useless village's idiot who will never ever be able to do anything worthwhile.
It is quite interesting that I do not see this in my female version of the same character. I am completely convinced that even as an empty-headed bimbo, she can achieve great things (if sometimes inadvertently).
On further analysis, I believe that my prejudice of female > male for this character is because I unconsciously believe that the female will have no trouble finding physically powerful male (or female) characters ready to help her because they feel compassion for her, while the male would be scorned for not being able to do things all by himself and having to rely on others.
I definitely believe that it is a projection of RL prejudices that a man should never ask for help while a woman can with no stigma attached.
I don't think there's much difference between my male PCs and my female PCs, but that probably reflects more on my mediocre roleplaying skills. :-)
Actually, come to think of it, I think my male PCs might be more likely to be irascible jerks than my female PCs.
I am not trying to make a statement here, but in truth end up playing female PCs as smarter than my male PCs. With NPCs I haven't noticed a difference -- but that may be because my male NPCs are smarter than my male PCs.I think this makes sense, because men can get by (not that they always do) on muscles, subtle social dominance and women have to get around such obstacles from an early age. I know the game system doesn't work this way, but the way we think of gender in RL does.
No... that's not quite it. My only active female PC is in a MechWarrior campaign. Muscles are somewhat less relevant when you have a fifty-ton death machine at your disposal.
And, to offer a counter-example, the female PC in the group I GM is a barbarian who could easily break any of the other party members. She's not dumb either, more of a smart-like-Conan type.
The intelligence I portray my female PCs with does not correlate to their physical prowess. I actually find that to be a strange and somewhat sexist way to rationalize it, but thank you for broaching it civilly.
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I have played one female PC ever, the rest are male. My female character could just as easily have been male, so the naievity seemed to fit the female character better.
But I've played with plenty of "males as females" (and absolutely no females-as-males; I guess they like their gender :)). And it's the same effect; they are just treated as characters. Unless you are in a VERY specific campaign, people usually don't worry about PC-to-PC romance; and while some PCs try to interact with NPCs off-line, most GMs are careful to not peer or condescend females doing the same job.
So in the end, PC gender has never seemed to matter, regardless of which way it goes. You do find those who treat female PLAYERS differently; these are usually "knights" who are extra-careful in protecting the female PC or offering advice. I've also seen guys be too embarrassed to talk directly to the female player, especially if they are particularly comely. But even here, the majority just take them in as "one of the guys", and they rarely take different approaches than their male counterparts.
So in the end, the RP rarely changes; only the level of detail that is used to describe how they dress :).
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I am a female who plays both genders and like Laithoron indicated, the same gender characters invariably end up very much like myself. As a PC I can't play an evil female (since I find them repugnant/obnoxious) however I have no problem doing so as NPC's in my own games and can put myself into their mindset. It is easier to fall into the role when I am the teller of the tale as opposed to the reactionary PC. If I do play a female PC, she will be an intelligent caster (or archery based class) of some sort who is a clever and insightful leader that many look to for strength, who lives by a higher moral code.... like a young Galadriel I guess. The other sort I play is the spunky female who sees the problems in her society and tries to change them but with realistic female strength and skills that fit her body type and attitude etc.
To put it simply, I find that I just do not respect/get into the female character unless they have the same moral code/ideals as I do.
I seem to have the most enjoyment when I play male PCs because I enjoy exploring their psyche. The males come quite naturally to me and when I play on boards my fellow male players are unaware I am a woman at all unless I tell them so. I just seem to understand male motivations in various character types more easily. I also enjoy playing a male because it is far more realistic to me that a male would be out wielding a sword slaying dragons and whooping giants as opposed to playing a uberfemale amazon who single-handedly beats the crud out of men and thus emasculates them...something I find really annoying and yet seems to be a popular theme in quite a vast number of new comic series and movies that have been coming out in recent years.
My sister is playing a female druid right now with an 18 Str and refuses to admit that she has any muscles whatsoever.
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I'd love to change that thought among the gaming community by actually having a well-adjusted straight female character like Jaheira and Khalid from Baldur's Gate. Ever seen a character get married and play it out well?
On the first point-- I'd like to claim to have played well-adjusted female characters before... but that broaches the accusation that none of my characters (male or female) have ever really been "well-adjusted"-- and for that matter, that ANY adventurer is really "well-adjusted", considering what they do for a living. Of course I can blame the failure to play well-adjusted characters on the fact that I'm officially not well-adjusted (I have depression and military-service connected PTSD issues). Some of my characters, both male and female ones, have been relatively well-adjusted (for adventurers)-- some other characters have been quite insane, though not in ways that prevented them from functioning.
Regarding the second part: yes, I've seen characters get married and saw the relationship played out well in many different campaigns-- both marriages between a PC and an NPC, and marriages between 2 PCs.
At the risk of getting an armchair psycho-analysis from 'The Peanut Gallery' I will relate my experience playing a female character as a male.
My female rogue is optimized for social interaction. I loaded her Charisma first, then Intelligence, and had to roll for her attractiveness (a 19 from a d20). She is flavored as being a silver-tongued daddy's girl from a less than wealthy family of one. She was raised a single child with no mother, and her father was the target of the spite of a much richer man who eventually ran her father out of business.
The girl, barely of age, had ruled out prostitution as a way to help her father stay afloat, but was not above seducing young noblemen for tokens of their affection, extravagant or less so.
Eventually all of that fell through and she decided that adventuring would suit her.
In practice, I have her flirt with every male she comes across, not always to the point of innuendo (she saves that for important stuff), but enough to find openings or opportunities. Not sure how to describe how I played her intellect... I played her solo for a few sessions before a roommate made it a two-player game, and she has survived more than her share of encounters on wit alone.
She has feelings for an NPC that she left behind when she fled her hometown, so she never actually "seals the deal" with any of her marks. She's a tease in that way. Not an ideal female, but human.
The DM I play her under is super-uncomfortable with me playing a female. So is the other guy who jumped in on it. Why? Because of her method of operation.
Why did I choose to build such a character? To show the people that I play with that one can have fun with a character that isn't optimized for RAGESMASHCOMBAT (which seems to be all any of my friends care about). And also to show them how to play a chaotic neutral character without resorting to chaotic evil (or chaotic stupid/stupid evil).
@Fog - what is the "roll for attractiveness" thing? Is that some alternate rule?
Echoing Adamantine Dragon here, but which rules system was that exactly?
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@Fog - what is the "roll for attractiveness" thing? Is that some alternate rule?
Probably someone's house rule. It doesn't make much sense to me, though; if you absolutely insist on players rolling for attractiveness, why would the distribution be uniform? Wouldn't it make more sense to fit it to a normal curve?
in first edition male characters could have an 18 str but the max for a female was 17
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@Fog - what is the "roll for attractiveness" thing? Is that some alternate rule?
They are likely from the 1st Edition's Unearthed Arcana
And it was called "Comeliness".but that system used 3d6 and was modified by Charisma and Race.
in first edition male characters could have an 18 str but the max for a female was 17
Close,
Human Males Max STR 18/00, Human Females STR 18/50.Elves had lower STR maxes as well