Marathon Voter Season 6
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Hello Everyone,
With less than a day before the big reveal, I thought I would post some “imagined” feedback that might help the top 32 sculpt their round two entries. It's a bit all over the place but it is based on feedback given in previous years that seems applicable to this new "Organization" round. I hope it helps; take out of it what you can. :)
The Good:
- The execution isn’t great but there are still a lot of useful ideas here for a campaign. The submitter got the “antagonist” part right.
- This organization is seven bags of fun for a DM to throw at their players. Excellent stuff!!!
- I really like how this competitor writes. She has clearly expressed herself, hit the notes she needed with not a groat more. Other competitors are struggling to present half as many ideas within the same word limit.
- Love the name, premise and delivery.
- This one hooked me straight away. Excellent ideas and description had me engaged from the get go.
- Mojo through the roof on this one. I’m not quite so sure on the execution but damn do I want to get this group into my game like yesterday! Why hasn’t anyone come up with something like this before?
- Now this is how you write! Economy of expression, with precise dynamic language. I really want to workshop this one for our next RPG Superstar panel. This gal knows how to turn a phrase and convey an idea.
- Smart design. The writer has picked the point exactly where the reader can join the dots without it being vague. I can’t believe they packed this much useable detail into so few words.
- My players are going to love to hate this bunch.
- I love the versatility offered here. There are so many ways I can push this lot in front of the PCs.
- This is good stuff. This organization is doing something and I mean DOING something. There are so many consequences here for the PCs.
- Scarily good. This gives me so many ideas and that is the best sign that the writer has hit on something special. I love it when Superstar gives us these moments.
- This writer has nailed unique and gonzo together but in a good way. This is weird but a good weird. It is making me think and again, that is the sign of a good submission.
- An old concept but a fresh presentation really makes this sing. Engaging stuff.
- This one’s mojo gets it through but only just… and I mean only just.
- This is really innovative. I don’t think anyone’s done something quite like this before. Wow!!!
The Bad:
- Clunky prose has let this submission down. Needs a good edit and trimming; a shame too as there are some real novel ideas here.
- I can’t see how this organization is going to realistically get in the way of the PCs.
- This organization is really only a single idea. Too monotone and boring.
- As a DM I am going to struggle to steer this organization into the path of the PCs and be able to keep them there.
- I need more. I understand that the word limit does exactly that but this competitor needs to be smarter with the information they are throwing at the reader. Too many words on stuff that’s simply not important within the abbreviated space provided. I don’t think this writer has the chops for the big time.
- This organization does not logically work. How are they going to stay together? What’s keeping this lot from imploding in one great illogical mess? It’s a shame as what at first seems a clever idea ends up having too many holes in it.
- I need more here. There is simply not enough action where I can throw this organization into the PCs path. This organization is too static.
- Too many clichés. This is just boring. I know this is fantasy but if I see another cliché I am going to SCREAM!
- This submission needs development on a massive scale. I understand the word limit but this is just too darn vague. Looks rushed and feels incomplete.
- A good idea let down by poor execution.
- You would think that a guy that could produce THAT wondrous item could follow up with something half decent. It would seem not. So many gaps to fill, I don’t quite know where to start.
- [SKR]WHY!?! You have the opportunity to make up any name you can think of for a headquarters and you come up with… Riverwood! Now I’m not suggesting that competitors should go overboard here or ridiculous but when you come up with a name… please make it sound like an interesting place, just in case you know, the PCs want to go there, claim it, or destroy it, or something. If you think it sounds boring then it most likely is.[/SKR]
- I really wanted to like this competitor’s submission but let’s face it… this organization is flat, typical, clichéd and boring. It is simply not superstar.
- Awesome premise but then it completely under-delivers.
- Completely misses the mark. The writer has simply not given me the tools to drive this organization.
- There’s not enough here to make this organization memorable. Essentially too hollow and unremarkable.
- Sorry but for me this organization is gonzo for gonzo’s sake.
The Ugly:
- This does not follow the template and is all over the place. Very disappointing considering how much we all loved her wondrous item.
- It says a Golarion organization and this is just… not that. Should be disqualified.
- This organization is dead set for the PCs. How is this going to antagonize them or present some measure of villainy? Pure failure to read the instructions on the tin.
- I literally can’t read this. The writer has misguidedly gone to a thesaurus to pile in as many out-of-context big words they can find. This IS NOT writing; it is torture!
- I am sure this is the most boring organization the competitor could think of. Ross, can you just check that the emails match up on this one or something because there is NO WAY, that the author of THAT wondrous item could have written THIS.
- Ahhh… the unprepared deer in the headlights follow-up submission. This one’s just weak sauce and that’s a shame because I golden ticketed this competitor. What a waste!
- Don’t DM the DM. Don’t present the DM with vague, undescribed mysteries. The DM needs to know this stuff so they can present this organization to their players and your submission has failed the DM with a lack of information. The DM provides the mystery to their players, not you to the DM.
- Please tell me he didn’t go there? He went there didn’t he? Seriously, who did he think was going to try and publish this? Push weird and gonzo too far and unfortunately, this is what you get.
- If you only have 100 words to describe your organization’s goals, why start with THIS! Too much useless detail that leaves me with no clue why this organization even exists. What self-respecting NPC would buy into this rubbish?
- If this was design a villain, then fine but this simply is not a true organization. Fail.
Feel free to add more good/bad/ugly comments and stuff that you think will help guide the top 32.
Best Regards
Herremann the Wise
Some nice thinking points here.
I think my organisation idea will still work, just need to step up the antagonistic aspects a tad more. There is simply too much indirect antagonism in my current plan, I need to make it more directed.
Very useful thanks.
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Hmm, interesting points there. I do like what you did for the two critic points (although I doubt they will reveal who golden ticketed what), but the negatives does make you think, carefully, over what not to do.
They positive though, seem to me to be lacking in terms of saying what exactly is done right. I don't think all of the things say a whole lot about organization writing (particularly the good things), so let me try and see if I can't instead without going from the former years imagine what might be commented on as more directly good things about and organization: (some of these things may be nitpicky but I'm trying to think what might be neat to see done really well)
- Alignment really fits the organization - it's not just randomly attached to it (this would surely make my vote want to go somewhere else - I hate seeing something labelled as an alignment which just doesn't match it's background and goals).
- Headquarters is an existing place in Golarion, that really does fit the organization (should be a good way to show that you know the world you're writing in)
- Headquarters matches scope (is suitable for a local/regional/global organization)
- Leader name sounds credible and not at all copied from something - original
- Number of leaders makes sense with scope and the organizations ruling method
- Structure is inventive and credible
- Structure is something new and previously undescribed (although that may be a word count killer)
- Scope matches goals and resources, and seems appropriate enough that they'll be fair antagonists for PCs at a level where the scope seems significant (at level 1 stopping a global organization isn't believable, and so, global organizations shouldn't have low aiming goals - same goes for the reverse)
- Resources that are significant to their location (I notice that nearly all resources in the Inner Sea World Guide has castles/fortresses listed, which seems to be something to mind a lot if the organization has - probably should state how the funding is and possibly (though that doesn't seem to be a precedent in the book) where these resources come from (trade, taxation, such, general terms)
- Introduction summarizing the organization has 100 words. Therefor it needs to be very fact heavy I'd guess. You get another 100 words for Goals and for Structure and Leadership, so don't bable about those here.
- Introduction should perchance hold some short background/why for the goals
- Introduction should definitely say exact what the organization is and does
- Structure and Leadership should be matching the above stated Leader and Structure, and expand a little on this. It should probably gives details on what kind of ways the organization works (especially those workings potentially antagonistic to PCs)
- Goal is, to my way of thinking, probably the most important 100 words. An organization doesn't form just to oppose PCs. It wants something. This something is the reason they are opposed to the PCs. This something should be what the PCs wants to stop.
- Finally Public perception in 50 words should hold the reason they aren't destroyed by the public. Either they're considered bad - but very powerful and dangerous to oppose. Or everyone thinks they good. Or... Well, at least this is also how the PCs will likely start out seeing the organization, which may be even more important. Also, existing opponents of the organization are likely to be patrons or allies for PCs, so that might be interesting too.
That's just some quick thoughts though, running through what an organization should be in my eyes.
Thanks a lot for your view, they inspired a lot of thoughts to me.
I like this a lot, makes me think of a few places where I need to work on my orginization.
For someone who would be cutting his own timelines short by being away during this round's development time, there are a lot of really good thoughts in here.
another few to add:
The Good
- Now that's some motivation! PCs, better prepare yourselves.
- I know these guys didn't exist until now, but I can already see exactly how I can work them into one of my campaigns.
The Bad
- We had a lot of comments about how some of our early adventure paths went a bit too far, and we've publicly said that we're backing off from stuff quite that graphic. I don't know if we would ever publish this group.
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I like it except for the 7th ugly point. a real dm wants a skeleton so as to build an organization which ties into the campaign, too much info restricts the dm, more so when he has players that read all the books. The entry should have enough info for the dm to know what the organization is about and yet have enough holes for the dm to fit it into whatever campaign is being run, not just golarion.
This why the wondrous items can't have backstory.
Just my opinion anyway. If a dm can't fill holes then he needs coaching or a replacement.
One nice thing about getting the round 2 template early is that many of us in the voter pool have already tried our hands at the assignment. I know I'll be able to judge organizations better for having written a few myself under the same constraints.
I'll be looking for entries that bite off exactly as much as they can chew. I had to kill my darlings* because of the extremely limited word count on this assignment, and I expect the same level of discernment from anybody who plans to write professionally. I'm also keen to see what people do with their blurbs. When you're trying to express a new campaign element in such a tight space, you've got to suggest a whole lot more than you state explicitly. Evocative, economical writing makes the difference between polished, publishable material and campaign notes --even when the concept behind the latter is strong.
* Not that I'm complaining. My home game will just have to suffer an Attack of the Zombie Darlings.
I like it except for the 7th ugly point. a real dm wants a skeleton so as to build an organization which ties into the campaign, too much info restricts the dm, more so when he has players that read all the books. The entry should have enough info for the dm to know what the organization is about and yet have enough holes for the dm to fit it into whatever campaign is being run, not just golarion.
This why the wondrous items can't have backstory.
Just my opinion anyway. If a dm can't fill holes then he needs coaching or a replacement.
I agree with you as a consumer, but disagree when it comes to Paizo's stake in the matter (and to the contest rules). I love the skeletal, open-ended stuff, but that's not the style of product I've seen from the company.
As I understand it, this round is intentionally a different sort of challenge from the open call. It tests the contestants' ability to write Golarion-specific material that is interesting and useful for readers just as it is, without anybody (editor or reader) having to fill in the blanks. It would be a mistake to attempt the same kind of setting-neutral modularity here as with a wondrous item, because organizations are a totally different space with different needs.
Just my two cents. I'm a homebrew-only GM currently playing under a module-only GM, which has opened my eyes to the importance of certain products that I probably wouldn't purchase myself.
The Ugly
- Great organization name! Too bad you didn't take the time to do a Google search and see if a real world entity was already using it...
It is amazing the names that companies, charities, and other organizations have already claimed!
The Ugly
- Great organization name! Too bad you didn't take the time to do a Google search and see if a real world entity was already using it...
It is amazing the names that companies, charities, and other organizations have already claimed!
True fact. I find it generally wise also to check the name with a different word order and a few synonyms replacing the words I was using. Partially because it might guide me to a better sounding name to see if a synonym I just hadn't thought of expresses my intention better, and secondly because a name which sounds like a synonym for something may just look like a rip-off with enough care to change, but not enough care to do something truly original instead.
Another bad (and/or) Ugly
- I don't know where in Golarion (Insert-Name-of-Place-in Homebrew-World-here) is, but I can't see a global organization using a place I haven't even heard of for headquarters. If you must use something not officially a place in Golarion (for obvious reason, say, your hidden, previously unknown, city can't have a known Golarion name), I'd seriously consider writing (Insert-whatever-random-name-here), (Insert-name-of-appropriate-country-in-Golarion-here). Making up a new, random name for a city might not be bad, provided that it's either small and insignificant enough not to be mentioned previously, or it's for some reason super-well hidden and therefore not previously touched on. BUT making up a super-random (or worse, not random but home campaign based or belonging to someone else) name for a city/place to put headquarters in, and then placing it in a location/country, which, for any practical purpose, does not exist in Golarion or, worse, already has something else there - now that's just critically close to what I'd call grounds for disqualification, considering that the task is to work within Golarion.
Look, this contest is getting me convinced to write extensive and probably overdone thoughts on probably insignificant matters. Hmm, I should restrain myself more. Oh, whatever. I'll use all my excess words here, instead of in eventual, potential submissions.
Hope it's not utterly useless, have to spend these very last hours on *something*...
Brilliant work Herreman!
Hence "the wise."
+1 on the google search.
Hello Everyone,
With less than a day before the big reveal, I thought I would post some “imagined” feedback that might help the top 32 sculpt their round two entries. It's a bit all over the place but it is based on feedback given in previous years that seems applicable to this new "Organization" round. I hope it helps; take out of it what you can. :)
Fantastic post, thanks!
- Ahhh… the unprepared deer in the headlights follow-up submission.
Those lights.... hypnotic..... can't..... move.....