Cavalier Charge and Critical Hit Help

[Cav5150]

I am playing an elf cavalier, order of the dragon level 10.
He has an 18 Strength and a +2 lance and am using Challenge ability for +10 damage.

Mounted Charge using a shield
Is this correct damage?
1d8 + (1d8 doubling) + [(4 str) + (2 enhancement) + (10 challenge)] = 2d8+16

And would this be correct damage for a critical?
1d8 + (1d8 doubling) + 3[(4 str) + (2 enhancement) + (10 challenge)] = 2d8+48

Now throw in Spirited Charge Feat:
(When mounted and using the charge action, you deal triple damage with a lance.)
1d8 + (1d8 doubling) + (1d8 tripling) + [(4 str) + (2 enhancement) + (10 challenge)] = 3d8+16

And would this be correct damage for a critical?
1d8 + (1d8 doubling) + (1d8 tripling) + 3[(4 str) + (2 enhancement) + (10 challenge)] = 3d8+48

Please confirm, thanks!

[BYC]

You do not seem to be multiply the damage correctly.

Those static damage bonuses from STR, weapon enhancement, and challenge would all multiply.

It should be 2d8 + 32 for a normal charge, and 3d8 + 32 for Spirited Charge.

[qutoes]

Make sure to take power attack because you get your multiplier with it too.

[Cav5150]

BYC wrote:

You do not seem to be multiply the damage correctly.

Those static damage bonuses from STR, weapon enhancement, and challenge would all multiply.

It should be 2d8 + 32 for a normal charge, and 3d8 + 32 for Spirited Charge.

Can you be a little more specific and show me the math behind it?

thanks!

[BYC]

Let me start over, since I mis-read a few things as well.

Your formula is wrong because damage on static bonuses multiple as well.

1d8 + (1d8 doubling) + 2 * [(4 str) + (2 enhancement) + (10 challenge)] = 2d8 + 32.

These are the reasons that static bonuses are so important in the d20/3.5/PF system. Bigger and more dice helps, but static bonuses are king.

Charge damage + lance:
2d8 + 32

Charge damage + lance + critical hit:
3d8 + 48. This because crit during Spirited Charge adds 1 more multiplier to at total of 3x.

Spirited Charge damage + lance:
3d8 + 48.

Spirited Charge damage + lance + critical:
4d8 + 64. This because crit during Spirited Charge adds 1 more multiplier to at total of 4x.

Other things to think about.

- You can wield a lance 2handed while mounted. Nothing prevents you from doing this.

- Power Attack also multiplies.

[Cav5150]

Thanks BYC!
That helps a lot!

[Mike Schneider]

Quote:

I am playing an elf cavalier, order of the dragon level 10.

He has an 18 Strength and a +2 lance and am using Challenge ability for +10 damage

...1d8+16 one-handed

...1d8+22 one-handed Power Attack
...1d8+18 two-handed
...1d8+27 two-handed Power Attack

Everything after the "+" sign multiplies.

[D'arandriel]

BYC wrote:

- You can wield a lance 2handed while mounted. Nothing prevents you from doing this.

- Power Attack also multiplies.

Nothing prevents using a lance two handed while mounted and charging except common sense and the fact that this is not how lances were used...

[cwslyclgh]

here now, common sense and historical fact, not to mention whether something would even be physically feasible, have no bearing on rules discussions. :0P

[Mike Schneider]

D'arandriel wrote:

Nothing prevents using a lance two handed while mounted and charging except common sense and the fact that this is not how lances were used...

Mongol cavalry ... Pecheneg (Russian) cavalry ... Sassanid Cataphract (heavy cavalry)

Mongol lances had a shoulder-strap (so it was "stowed" behind the back when they were using their bows). The Russian and Sassanid lances were true double-weapons with a point at both ends, making multiple attacks against adjacent enemy infantry on either side of the horse feasible from the saddle (the game currently doesn't permit this).

Why use a lance two-handed? Simple: more power, more control, and you won't drop it if you lose your grip with one of your hands.

The lance-with-hand-cup one-handed contrivance was used at European tournament lists where there was no need for you to do anything but point toward the other knight charging straight at you on the other side of the rail.

[cwslyclgh]

used during a charge it wouldn't matter how many hands you have on the lance, as you are not swinging or providing any additional force to the lance whatsoever, you are couching the lance and bracing it for impact, the mount is providing all of the momentum. if you are sitting on your horse stabbing at people around you with the lance, then yes, it works pretty much like any other spear.... but during a charge (which the OP is disusing) using a lance two handed makes no sense, historically or realistically.

Which is not to say that it isn't allowed under the rules of the game (it certainly is).