| Archaeik |
afaik, they've adjusted any weapons that used to have this ability to be EITHER reach or adjacent.
The dorn dergar has some flexibility as does the polearm master fighter archetype
there are a few other character build options like vestigial arms aiding to wield both a reach and adjacent weapon at the same time(can only use one at a time or you incur TWF penalties)
Callarek
|
Probably the best option for this type of thing, at present, requires having a BAB of 5, and costs 4 feats to do:
Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Whip
Weapon Focus: Whip
Whip Mastery (BAB +2, Weapon Focus, lets whip do damage despite armor/natural armor, and do normal or non-lethal damage at will)
Improved Whip Mastery (BAB +5, Whip Mastery, gives natural reach +5' for threatened area with a whip)
Of course, the downside is that a whip only does 1d3 damage. But it does have the Trip & Disarm keywords...
| Halfling Barbarian |
afaik, they've adjusted any weapons that used to have this ability to be EITHER reach or adjacent.
The dorn dergar has some flexibility as does the polearm master fighter archetypethere are a few other character build options like vestigial arms aiding to wield both a reach and adjacent weapon at the same time(can only use one at a time or you incur TWF penalties)
The other option is a switch hitter. Dropping a weapon is a free action, drawing a weapon is a move action or a free action with the quick draw feat. One feat effective switch for that BBEG that simply says "Take your AoO!" and then basically ignores your trip attempt or shrugs off the damage.
| Gluttony |
A lance in the hands of a fighter with the dragoon archetype (who's at least 7th level or higher) can target adjacent squares as a club, while using reach as a lance.
Spinning Lance:
At 7th level, a dragoon may alternate attacks with the piercing head of his lance with reach, or with the butt end (treat as a club) against adjacent targets. Unlike a double weapon, the masterwork quality and magical special abilities apply to both ends of the lance, except for those weapon special abilities that apply only to edged weapons.
This ability replaces armor training 2.
| Grick |
The Kusarigama works. Also, a trip weapon.
If your DM rules it that way. By RAW it's a double reach weapon, by intent it's probably a non-reach double weapon and/optionally a two-handed reach weapon, like the other similar weapons. Making it into a super spiked chain, which PF took pains to eliminate, is probably not the intent. Here is the thread to avoid going off-topic.
I believe a monk threatens adjacent to himself with improved unarmed strike regardless of what he's carrying in his hands, so using a monk wielding a reach weapon is the easiest way to achieve the adjacent + reach threat range.
He does, but so does anyone with armor spikes (50 gp) or Improved Unarmed Strike (feat).
| goodwicki |
goodwicki wrote:I believe a monk threatens adjacent to himself with improved unarmed strike regardless of what he's carrying in his hands, so using a monk wielding a reach weapon is the easiest way to achieve the adjacent + reach threat range.He does, but so does anyone with armor spikes (50 gp) or Improved Unarmed Strike (feat).
Valid point - in my head I was assuming use of a two-handed reach weapon; I believe armor spikes and non-monk unarmed strikes require a free hand to use as an off-hand attack.
| Grick |
Valid point - in my head I was assuming use of a two-handed reach weapon; I believe armor spikes and non-monk unarmed strikes require a free hand to use as an off-hand attack.
Unarmed Attacks: "Striking for damage with punches, kicks, and head butts is much like attacking with a melee weapon, except for the following..."
That's not monk-specific. Anyone can kick or headbutt as an unarmed strike. A monk's attacks may be with fist, elbows, knees, and feet.
Armor Spikes count as an off-hand attack only in that if you have made an off-hand attack, you can't also make an off-hand attack with the spikes. This is only for Two-Weapon Fighting.
What about spiked gauntlets?
Most people rule that if you're using the gauntlet hand to do anything else (like wield a weapon) then that limb is in use and you can't use the spiked gauntlet. So your option is to 'wield' the two-handed weapon and thus not threaten with the gauntlet, or to 'wield' the gauntlet and not be able to use that hand to threaten with the two-handed weapon. (I think it's silly, and that a spiked gauntlet holding the end of a spear can still punch someone, but I suppose it's more balanced the other way.)
| Malfus |
Most people rule that if you're using the gauntlet hand to do anything else (like wield a weapon) then that limb is in use and you can't use the spiked gauntlet. So your option is to 'wield' the two-handed weapon and thus not threaten with the gauntlet, or to 'wield' the gauntlet and not be able to use that hand to threaten with the two-handed weapon. (I think it's silly, and that a spiked gauntlet holding the end of a spear can still punch someone, but I suppose it's more balanced the other way.)
Not trying to be annoying, but what if I let go of the weapon as a free action with one hand?
| Grick |
what if I let go of the weapon as a free action with one hand?
Then you threaten with the gauntlet, but not with the two-handed weapon. It's a free action to put your hand back on the longspear (or whatever) so you basically have to choose at the end of your turn if you want to threaten with the spear or the gauntlet. (Can't do the free action to re-grip the spear outside your turn)
nosig
|
Grick wrote:Not trying to be annoying, but what if I let go of the weapon as a free action with one hand?Most people rule that if you're using the gauntlet hand to do anything else (like wield a weapon) then that limb is in use and you can't use the spiked gauntlet. So your option is to 'wield' the two-handed weapon and thus not threaten with the gauntlet, or to 'wield' the gauntlet and not be able to use that hand to threaten with the two-handed weapon. (I think it's silly, and that a spiked gauntlet holding the end of a spear can still punch someone, but I suppose it's more balanced the other way.)
Malfus - I've only seen one judge rule the way Grick discribes, but most of my SG users are archers. Mostly they threaten and still use thier bows.
| Grick |
most of my SG users are archers. Mostly they threaten and still use thier bows.
Which is totally legal. In most cases you're not threatening with the bow anyway, so having your gauntlet hand free at the end of turn to threaten with is fine. (And if you have Snap Shot and can threaten with the bow, it's probably better to threaten with that than the gauntlet)
| goodwicki |
@Grick: Huh, I see your point about the unarmed strikes. My assumption was made by the description of the monk unarmed strike - "A monk's attacks may be with fist, elbows, knees, and feet. This means that a monk may make unarmed strikes with his hands full", as well as an unarmed strike being classified as a light weapon, and as such "is used in one hand" by the light weapon definition. This combined with the the clarification regarding monks attacking "with their hands full" makes me assume that one could not normally make unarmed strikes with one's hands full. However, this does go against the blatant definition of an unarmed strike encompassing kicks and head butts, and perhaps being classified as a light weapon is only meant to imply the other features of light weapons. The same light weapon definition is the basis for my "armor spikes needing a hand free" belief. Would be interested to know if this is spelled out more clearly elsewhere? Especially if in an FAQ or thread on this site, as I'm fairly new here.
@nosig: I've never had a GM who didn't rule the way Grick describes. I think part of the idea of having weapons that threaten at reach is that you compromise by not threatening adjacent, which is why they're two-handed, meaning "two hands are required to use [it] effectively". A spiked gauntlet is a light weapon, which is "used in one hand". You can't be effectively wielding both a light and two-handed weapon at the same time, it's an either/or situation. I see no difference to threatening with a spiked gauntlet as opposed to a short sword - just because it's a glove doesn't change anything, otherwise any such changes would be stated in the item description. Of course, given the discrepancy regarding the light weapon definition and unarmed strike definition described above you might have a little wiggle room, but in this case there isn't even anything in the spiked gauntlet description that implies you could use it while the hand wearing it was otherwise occupied.
| Grick |
My assumption was made by the description of the monk unarmed strike - "A monk's attacks may be with fist, elbows, knees, and feet. This means that a monk may make unarmed strikes with his hands full"
This is good reasoning. It's odd to call that out if everyone can do so.
Would be interested to know if this is spelled out more clearly elsewhere? Especially if in an FAQ or thread on this site, as I'm fairly new here.
Here is James Jacobs saying you can use Improved Unarmed Strike to kick while wielding a two-handed weapon. The post he's replying to is directly above the one linked. I didn't read the whole thread, so be aware it may contain spoilers.